2020 US Presidential Election

[Cowley]

There's some sort of joke in there about Borderline Personality Disorder and The Wall. Time for a mini competition - Ready, Steady, Joke?

I don’t want to make any jokes that cause a fence...

 

[kermit]

I don’t want to make any jokes that cause a fence...

Well it made me chuckle! Seems you may have come first in a field of one, but better than I could manage.....

 

[overthewater]

I know what a storm in tea cup is. Really is it not going to change anything and he going out the door.. We will see the same on Wednesday

If anyone is surprised about calls and comment from Trump, that what im more surprised at, people being shocked at them. Nearly all the governors hate trump and wont do anything to help him, personnel I would have had some of the proper court case and audits he's asked for to prove that he was actually wrong. we had 4 years of mistrust, might have done good to prove there nothing in the wash. Worse thing anyone can do when people complain is just ignore there disagreement ( where have we heard that before)

I think people have now started to realises that 6 million votes extra for Biden means nothing, and Biden really did only win by over 45k. I do believe trump believes there was some skulduggery with the election, but no one seems to have the correct answer to counter argue his points.

 

[najaB]

I think people have now started to realises that 6 million votes extra for Biden means nothing...

That's the nature of the Electoral College. It's possible to win the Presidency with something like 38% of the popular vote!

I do believe trump believes there was some skulduggery with the election, but no one seems to have the correct answer to counter argue his points.

A delusional person believes the things they have seen/heard, but that doesn't mean that they are real!

 

[Bevan Price]

I'm listening to this now. I had assumed that Trump really knew he lost but was just blustering in order to sabotage Biden's presidency and help his own chances in 2024. Instead, it's clear that he's insane.

I think delusional might be a better description.......
And the bigger problem is that Trump Junior might get elected in 2024 or 2028.

 

[najaB]

And the bigger problem is that Trump Junior might get elected in 2024 or 2028.

I doubt it. Even the most loyal Trumpists don't rate DJTJ that highly. Ivanka would have a better chance.

 

[overthewater]

That's the nature of the Electoral College. It's possible to win the Presidency with something like 38% of the popular vote!
A delusional person believes the things they have seen/heard, but that doesn't mean that they are real!

its worse than that, its just under 22% of the popular vote can win you the election. CGP Grey made a video about that. The only way to stop a Delusional person is to counter claim them.

I doubt it. Even the most loyal Trumpists don't rate DJTJ that highly. Ivanka would have a better chance.

They will find some with charm for 2024 and then the fireworks will go.

Biden was not a great canadate and did rather poorly where needed to, losing nearly all the bellwether counties, two state that the winner tended to win etc it wouldn't take much for charm esq trump person to take back the white house

 

[Whistler40145]

Has President Trump completely lost his marbles?

 

[WelshBluebird]

but no one seems to have the correct answer to counter argue his points.

The counter to his "points" is to ask where is the evidence.

Some other sites I am on have a more US republican bias to the membership and they just can't actually produce any real evidence. Whenever you ask them, the only reply they can give are things that have perfectly reasonable explanations to them (e.g. Trump took a lead in some of the states that counted in person votes first but then Biden caught up and overtook when the mail ins were counted), things that look dodgy at first but actually aren't when you dig into them a bit (a lot of the "dead person voted" claims come into this - where most of the time it is just a confusion caused by people having the same names etc) or things that are just downright false.

Given the recent stuff about Trump asking them to "find votes" for him to beat Biden, I suspect a lot of his claims are just pure projection.

 

[edwin_m]

Biden was not a great canadate and did rather poorly where needed to, losing nearly all the bellwether counties, two state that the winner tended to win etc it wouldn't take much for charm esq trump person to take back the white house

Biden did enough for a convincing victory both in the electoral college and in the popular vote. This would not have been in any doubt, had Trump not behaved as he has.

The problem is that the Democrats did less well in the elections for the House (reduced majority), Senate (will gain control by a shoestring only if they win both Georgia re-runs) and in various State assemblies (many of which have the power to gerrymander the upcoming round of boundary reassignments for the House). The lack of control in the Senate, especially, would severely limit Biden's freedom to enact changes domestically.

 

[overthewater]

Biden did enough for a convincing victory both in the electoral college and in the popular vote. This would not have been in any doubt, had Trump not behaved as he has.

The problem is that the Democrats did less well in the elections for the House (reduced majority), Senate (will gain control by a shoestring only if they win both Georgia re-runs) and in various State assemblies (many of which have the power to gerrymander the upcoming round of boundary reassignments for the House). The lack of control in the Senate, especially, would severely limit Biden's freedom to enact changes domestically.

Just enough and not much more to win, wining 10'000 votes out nearly 5million to win a state is poor. your right just just limped over the line where it matted and nothing more. Biden just seems like someone singing to his converts and did little to convince the trump people to switch sides. The democrats need to widen their base to help stop this again.

 

[najaB]

Given the recent stuff about Trump asking them to "find votes" for him to beat Biden, I suspect a lot of his claims are just pure projection.

Number one rule of Trump: He only accuses others of things he either has done, or wants to do.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Just enough and not much more to win, wining 10'000 votes out nearly 5million to win a state is poor. your right just just limped over the line where it matted and nothing more. Biden just seems like someone singing to his converts and did little to convince the trump people to switch sides. The democrats need to widen their base to help stop this again.

I mean, Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 by almost 3 million votes.
So I am not sure how Biden winning the popular vote by around 7 million votes this time around can be labelled as "limping over the line".
I do wonder if that imagery specifically is more down to how the votes were counted in a lot of states. I wonder if the mail in ballots had been counted everywhere first, which likely would have put Biden in the lead right away, would people still try to claim he only just "limped over the line" to win the result, or would the imagery be instead that he had a solid lead that he never gave up.

Now - if you are talking about a smaller number of votes in a small number of areas deciding elections - that is a totally different issue and is one we have in the UK too.

 

[edwin_m]

Just enough and not much more to win, wining 10'000 votes out nearly 5million to win a state is poor. your right just just limped over the line where it matted and nothing more. Biden just seems like someone singing to his converts and did little to convince the trump people to switch sides. The democrats need to widen their base to help stop this again.

Georgia hasn't voted Democrat for several decades, and Biden also won in multiple other swing states so even if the result there was reversed it wouldn't keep Trump in power.

Systems like the Electoral College and the UK Parliament are prone to produce results where the person with the most vote ends up not being in power (as with Trump in 2016 and Bush in 2000) but also the sort of comment that a few tens of thousands of votes could have swung the result the other way. For that reason they are bad systems, with the US one also having the added disadvantage that the number of voters per elector is less in the small rural (and more likely Republican) states.

 

[overthewater]

I mean, Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 by almost 3 million votes.
So I am not sure how Biden winning the popular vote by around 7 million votes this time around can be labelled as "limping over the line".
I do wonder if that imagery specifically is more down to how the votes were counted in a lot of states. I wonder if the mail in ballots had been counted everywhere first, which likely would have put Biden in the lead right away, would people still try to claim he only just "limped over the line" to win the result, or would the imagery be instead that he had a solid lead that he never gave up.

Again the 7million means nothing. In the UK Labour did this in 1951, it got more votes than the Tories but still lost, its no good racking up the votes in your safe seats. Biden won the 3 swing states with a combine vote of 45K votes, its tiny margins. It really is "limping over the line". He did but just. Obama, on the other hand even with his losses in 2012 still managed a more evenly spread vote across the USA and had much better margins in each state he won.

Its the fact USA is becoming more polarised, any winner in 2024 may once again lost the popular vote , but still win if they can tap into the right places.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Some of the investigations in New York are, as I understand it, at the federal level and therefore pardonable by a President. If Trump resigns Pence can pardon him, as happened for Nixon and Ford. But there are likely to be some state-level investigations that could result in non-pardonable charges, and even if Biden doesn't want to pursue anything I would imagine some politically ambitious Democratic prosecutor would fancy a crack at it.

That’s an interesting point that nobody seems to have picked up on. If Trump resigns tomorrow, would that make Mike Pence the 46th president and Joe Biden would then become the 47th?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Again the 7million means nothing. In the UK Labour did this in 1951, it got more votes than the Tories but still lost, its no good racking up the votes in your safe seats. Biden won the 3 swing states with a combine vote of 45K votes, its tiny margins. It really is "limping over the line". He did but just. Obama, on the other hand even with his losses in 2012 still managed a more evenly spread vote across the USA and had much better margins in each state he won.

Its the fact USA is becoming more polarised, any winner in 2024 may once again lost the popular vote , but still win if they can tap into the right places.

I just don't agree.
Biden has won the popular vote with a larger difference than Obama's reelection and not much less of the electoral college.
What you are talking about is an issue with the electoral system, not with the candidates.

 

[overthewater]

Then we just have to agree to disagree, I dont think biden was great he was lack lustier and only really appeal to his base vote not the wider country, who truly hated trump.

 

[najaB]

Biden won the 3 swing states with a combine vote of 45K votes, its tiny margins. It really is "limping over the line". He did but just.

That's the nature of the electoral college system. Trump won in 2016 by a few tens of thousands of votes as well.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Then we just have to agree to disagree, I dont think biden was great he was lack lustier and only really appeal to his base vote not the wider country, who truly hated trump.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Biden was that great either.
Infact I think the fact that in the last 5 years, the three candidates being Biden, Trump and Clinton is pretty damning to the state of politics in the US.
What I am saying however, is the things you are talking about regarding him winning the election by just winning in a few states by a small number of votes - that is a critism of the electoral system mainly, not of the candidates. As I said, we have the same issue in the UK too where I believe the last few elections were decided by just a few thousand people in some swing consistencies.

 

[overthewater]

That's the nature of the electoral college system. Trump won in 2016 by a few tens of thousands of votes as well.

Its an awful system isn't it?

 

[najaB]

As I said, we have the same issue in the UK too where I believe the last few elections were decided by just a few thousand people in some swing consistencies.

ISTR that the 2017 election came down to less than a thousand votes.

 

[Typhoon]

The problem is that the Democrats did less well in the elections for the House (reduced majority), Senate (will gain control by a shoestring only if they win both Georgia re-runs) and in various State assemblies (many of which have the power to gerrymander the upcoming round of boundary reassignments for the House).

To me that says people were quite happy to vote Republican, so either they were concerned about the direction that the Democrats in Congress or elsewhere appeared to be taking but were quite happy to vote for the moderate, Biden; or, they weren't prepared to vote for Trump. Trump himself said that he was not popular with suburban women and Covid-19 has been a complete catastrophe as far as many Americans are concerned. The Democrats may have a problem in 2024, Biden will be 81 going on 82, Kamala Harris is going to really have to prove her electability to avoid a many candidate fight for the candidacy if (as I expect) Biden just serves the one term - and she may not get the support from the men in grey suits, it could get nasty.

And the bigger problem is that Trump Junior might get elected in 2024 or 2028.

Good news for wildlife in Africa. More seriously, they ought to select someone untainted by Trump, his performance in the last eight weeks will not endear him to moderates. The MAGA crew will vote Republican no matter what, it is the middle ground that need convincing.

I doubt it. Even the most loyal Trumpists don't rate DJTJ that highly. Ivanka would have a better chance.

I agree. Ivanka seems to know when to keep quiet, and when she does talk rubbish, it is not so obvious that she is doing so. I also get the impression that Donald John Senior would support her. Donny just talks drivel, he is the sort of person who tries to argue that it is 'day' when it is quite obviously 'night', he makes George W. seem like Einstein, so will be very easy to caricature - the late night chat shows will love him. I've heard an interview with Mary Trump - she reckons he is the most stupid.

 

[edwin_m]

To me that says people were quite happy to vote Republican, so either they were concerned about the direction that the Democrats in Congress or elsewhere appeared to be taking but were quite happy to vote for the moderate, Biden; or, they weren't prepared to vote for Trump. Trump himself said that he was not popular with suburban women and Covid-19 has been a complete catastrophe as far as many Americans are concerned. The Democrats may have a problem in 2024, Biden will be 81 going on 82, Kamala Harris is going to really have to prove her electability to avoid a many candidate fight for the candidacy if (as I expect) Biden just serves the one term - and she may not get the support from the men in grey suits, it could get nasty.

Agreed. There's possibly a desire for "Trumpism without Trump" and/or people are put off by things like the Democrats "defunding the police", which is actually a pretty sensible policy but given a stupid name that Republicans can use to play on people's fears.

 

[overthewater]

Agreed. There's possibly a desire for "Trumpism without Trump" and/or people are put off by things like the Democrats "defunding the police", which is actually a pretty sensible policy but given a stupid name that Republicans can use to play on people's fears.

People clearly do love Trumpism without Trump, they also dislike Democrat and there rather far left view point, hence how trump managed to hold on to Florida. That slogan was stupid and it would have been better to stay " Reform the police" alas some people really did mean get rid of them.

 

[21C101]

People clearly do love Trumpism without Trump, they also dislike Democrat and there rather far left view point, hence how trump managed to hold on to Florida. That slogan was stupid and it would have been better to stay " Reform the police" alas some people really did mean get rid of them.

Florida has a lot of people with relations in Cuba and Venezuala.

That said you are right. Trump was a warning who lost only because his vulgarity repelled a portion of the electorate.

Trump was a warning. One that the democrats and techocratic elite have ignored with contempt.

Their reward will be another "Trump" in a few years who in more right wing but also far more charismatic (and may also be a person of colour).

 

[nlogax]

Their reward will be another "Trump" in a few years who in more right wing but also far more charismatic (and may also be a person of colour).

Trump is a person of colour. It's orange.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Trump is a person of colour. It's orange.

What was the colour of those hard-working little Oompa Loompa chaps in the Gene Wilder film version of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"?

I wonder if the present incumbent in the White House is one of those who made his escape?

 

[nlogax]

What was the colour of those hard-working little Oompa Loompa chaps in the Gene Wilder film version of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"?

I wonder if the present incumbent in the White House is one of those who made his escape?

Hmm... you could be onto something.




Tomorrow is the Senate count and certification of electoral college votes, the final piece of Washington admin that stands between Biden and the White House. So far twelve GOP senators have indicated they'll oppose the certification which may lead to a small delay in finalising the result but zero chance of changing it. More popcorn viewing, I feel.

 

[najaB]

So far twelve GOP senators have indicated they'll oppose the certification which may lead to a small delay in finalising the result but zero chance of changing it. More popcorn viewing, I feel.

Indeed. The challenges would need to be supported by a majority in both the House and the Senate which is never going to happen. So all the dirty dozen are doing is confirming that their loyalty is to Trump rather than the country or the Constitution.