Covid restrictions - protests/disobedience, and are people just getting fed up with it?

[yorkie]

I do think the "shy Tory" phenomenon exists here, and this is something that the likes of YouGov may have failed to realise this time and thus leading to their polls suggesting mass support for restrictions, despite historically factoring in such concepts in standard election polling.

Only people with an insane amount of time on their hands participate in YouGov polls. I was in that category back in May, but then I realised how incredibly tedious they are and I stopped doing them once I had other things to occupy my time. I will never go back!

Asked previously. As per this telegraph article the average answer was given as 65. Of course the real answer is low 80s (i.e. On par if not higher than normal life expectancy)

Public wrongly think average age of Covid death is 65, poll reveals

Savanta ComRes survey for Conservative Woman lays bare misconceptions around threat from virus pandemic

www.telegraph.co.uk

Yes people consistently underestimate this; for the UK I believe it's 82 (average age of all deaths being 81, so yes the average age of a Covid death is indeed older)

 

[bramling]

Only people with an insane amount of time on their hands participate in YouGov polls. I was in that category back in May, but then I realised how incredibly tedious they are and I stopped doing them once I had other things to occupy my time. I will never go back!

Yes people consistently underestimate this; for the UK I believe it's 82 (average age of all deaths being 81, so yes the average age of a Covid death is indeed older)

The 82 figure is indeed correct, though you wouldn’t think it from the news...

 

[DustyBin]

I know there are plenty of people on here who reject this, and seem to think the NHS has endless capacity to cope, or everyone is being lied to, and it is no worse that the normal annual pressures the NHS comes under. Well you can continuely lie to yourselves until you are blue in the face. Nobody cancels / delays operations and lifesaving treatments without good reason.

I actually (albeit reluctantly) accept the current lockdown. The NHS was struggling and even though I’ve seen no evidence of lockdowns working strategically, I can understand why the government had to be seen to be doing something (that phrase again!) under the circumstances. As thoroughly fed up and stressed as I am by the situation I’m getting on with it. However, this must be the last time. As soon as we’re out of the winter ‘danger zone’ we absolutely must begin opening up our society and economy. The most vulnerable will be vaccinated, the vaccination programme is continuing at pace and we have the chance to allow this virus to become endemic through the warmer months. We must not repeat the mistakes of last year, and we must not prolong restrictions in pursuit of some fantasy elimination strategy. Enough is enough, we need to commence the return to normality, if we don’t do it soon I honestly don’t think we ever will.

 

[Yew]

I actually (albeit reluctantly) accept the current lockdown. The NHS was struggling and even though I’ve seen no evidence of lockdowns working strategically, I can understand why the government had to be seen to be doing something (that phrase again!) under the circumstances. As thoroughly fed up and stressed as I am by the situation I’m getting on with it. However, this must be the last time. As soon as we’re out of the winter ‘danger zone’ we absolutely must begin opening up our society and economy. The most vulnerable will be vaccinated, the vaccination programme is continuing at pace and we have the chance to allow this virus to become endemic through the warmer months. We must not repeat the mistakes of last year, and we must not prolong restrictions in pursuit of some fantasy elimination strategy. Enough is enough, we need to commence the return to normality, if we don’t do it soon I honestly don’t think we ever will.

If the government wants to be seen to be doing something, get the army to carry some boxes round a hospital or something, rather than forcibly confining us in our homes.

 

[35B]

Well we do know that many people have lost their jobs due to covid restrictions, we have learned recently that many more people are borrowing more to get by, we know hospital waiting lists are growing, so the only thing that is really being projected here is how many people are suffering depression as a result. But I would say its a reasonable bet that any combination of the above has a chance of people becoming resentful of the seemingly never ending restrictions. I've certainly witnessed first hand the results of these kinds of things previously in my career, and many of my colleagues continue to do so. What I am certain about is that trying to portray the UK population as being behind restrictions that for many a biting deep is naïve at best.

I’m making no assumptions about support or opposition, and fully agree that views will vary considerably. I merely question the role of personal bias in interpreting ones own encounters with others as a guide to how people in general may react

 

[TheBeard]

The death rate would be 1% without Lockdown, showing there is no easy remedy. You are all wrong with varying other figures. In the Developing world, whore people are not so obese, and not old, it is 0.23%. Hence they think it's a white mans disease. If we can vaccinate many millions, and soon before people lose patience and riot, life will be easier But it may be Bolsanero has a better model for them than Lockdowns, and maybe you might be better at fighting more virulent strains if you had fought off the early strains, rather than hiding the whole population rather than the vulnerable, who knows?

 

[DB]

The death rate would be 1% without Lockdown,

So why isn't it 1% in Sweden then?

 

[takno]

The death rate would be 1% without Lockdown, showing there is no easy remedy.

Got a source for that?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

From my travelling for work (on the train), it very much seems that while the train use is well down, car use isn't. Where the line runs close to the major roads, they are getting back towards a more normal level of traffic. Leeds city centre is seeing increasing traffic.

What is probably happening is that those who are going to travel are moatly doing so by car now where they can.



I wonder how many are saying what they think others will consider acceptable on social media though? Do some of them just want to avoid being lectured for being granny killers?

From talking to work colleagues, a fair proportion have similar views to me - I very much get the impression that while many may support lockdowns, there are a good proportion who don't really, but don't say so much because they don't want an argument.



Indeed, and it's growing. A few weeks ago I had a Tesco door guardian running after me shouting 'have you got a mask sir' and then when I said I was exempt 'can I see some proof' (I pointed to the lanyard which he had inexplicably not seen, apparently). Yesterday I had a woman giving me dirty looks on a train (glared back at her) - I was wearing a lanyard, then later I had a member of rail staff (who appeared to be going home or between duties) shout down the carriage at me 'have you got a mask'. I just stared at him and he appears then to have noticed that I was wearing a lanyard and backed off rapidly.

None of it's major stuff, but it just gets irritiating and demoralising over time.

Southern train just now. I get on, in a carriage with tables and bays of 4 seats. Mid-20s guy sitting in seat D (imagine in your mind 16 seats labelled A-P, from left to right).

Seeing me with no mask on, but wearing my lanyard, I sit down in seat P with 2 tables and 2 pairs of back-to-back seats between us ... and he’s so irrational, he gets up and walks through to the next carriage!

Mental health is taking a huge battering.

Some of the emails I've seen from parents about how their children are suffering have been downright frightening; I can only forgive those who call for long/harsh lockdowns if they later admit they were wrong. Anyone who maintains long/harsh lockdowns were the right thing to do loses my respect.

As evidenced by this sad story in the Brighton Argus.
Two suicides on the railway in their catchment area, within one hour of each other, and what appears to be an attempted suicide from the clifftop near Brighton Marina, on the same day

Police confirm two people have died after being hit by trains this afternoon

TWO people have died after being hit by trains in Sussex in two separate incidents, police have confirmed.

www.theargus.co.uk

TWO people have died after being hit by trains in Sussex in two separate incidents, police have confirmed.

The incidents happened within 30 minutes of one another this afternoon.

Multi-agency emergency underway at Brighton Marina

EMERGENCY services have been called to the cliff at Brighton Marina this evening.

www.theargus.co.uk

EMERGENCY services have been called to the cliff at Brighton Marina this evening.

It is understood a man has been taken to the hospital by the South East Coast Ambulance Service

Police and ambulance crews were called to the cliff close to the Asda car park.

 

[Bikeman78]

Using my Facebook of a diverse 700 odd friends from all ages (well, from teens upwards to 80 or so) and walks of life, the vast majority actively support the lockdown/restrictions (constant sharing of photos of sad Boris, "if only people would listen to the restrictions this would be over by now", "wear your mask" etc),

This is what annoys me most about all this. It's never going to be over until the virus runs it course or until everyone has been vaccinated. There are enough people that have to go out to work, and therefore mix with others, that the virus will spread. Clearly people have to eat as well so most people need to go shopping at least once a week.

 

[initiation]

The death rate would be 1% without lockdown

Utterly insane. And people accuse lockdown sceptics of being the one peddling fake news/science.

Just for context, the country in the world with the most deaths per capita so far is Belgium (strong lockdown) at 0.18%.

Question: if you are so sure that no lockdown would have led to a death rate of 1% then I'm sure you can highlight a very robust correlation between the strength of any lockdown and mortality. Please post it here.

It's never going to be over until the virus runs it course or until everyone has been vaccinated

In reality, we could have it 'over' tomorrow if society was happy to accept x number of deaths in return for no restrictions. We accept y number of flu deaths per year and don't stop society. What the x/y value is if course up for debate (unless talking to a zero covid fanatic) and opinion on what is "acceptable" can be shifted by the Gov/media etc...

 

[Fisherman80]

Indeed; those of us who state our fears for it are not in any way wanting it.

There have been a lot of unsavoury incidents and it's very lucky that it didn't get any worse than the incident in Brixton on 25 June. But that was still quite serious and could have been far worse.

While some police officers may be enjoying their authoritarian powers, I'm sure many will not welcome the impossible and potentially extremely dangerous situations they are being forced into.

It will be.

And you could do that last Summer!

I didn't end up going until September Yorkie. If you remember the Northern Rail services didn't get back to any kind of usefulness until then. Getting over to Morecambe was a real nightmare!

Yeah, in the months leading up to the riots the tension was palatable, you could cut the air with a knife at times. I was living in Lidget Green at the time, just a couple of hundreds metres from where it kicked off there so those memories remain fresh. As you say, back then it was racial tensions that were growing, sporadic incidents continued to flare up before eventually it went nuclear.

This is why people shouldn't be so sure that nothing will happen here. Tension & anger isn't always obviously visible, sometimes it builds up & manifests as seemingly random acts of disobedience or even violence that might to an outsider seem unconnected. But these create even worsened relationships between public and authorities, which can risk a single intervention by say the Police to tip the balance. And the Police in the last 12 months have not endeared themselves as a force (even thought most Police are decent). Cheered on by our manic Home Secretary it is probably only a matter of time before they decide to make some visible point at some "illegal" gathering or incident in front of the media, which will act as the spark. Its happened before, it could happen again.

Your quite right there. I live in Allerton and I remember getting home from Bradford city centre,switching Sky News on and I couldn't believe what I was seeing!
Although the government have made a bit of a mess of things,and the Police are not going about things the correct way,I cannot help but think that things wouldn't be as bad if the minority of the public would just do the very basic things,sanitizing their hands would be a good start.
Going to the local shop is a nightmare. People not sanitizing their hands after handling the door, people not wearing face masks who are not exempt ( I know this for a fact,because people I know buy an exemption card from the local pound shop ).
The reason I get so frustrated with these things is because although I am exempt myself due to having asthma,and also being on daily medication to control it,I wear a face covering not only to protect myself but to protect others too.
I suppose my main gripe is this..............the police are targeting the wrong people.........and that is where the trouble could start I'm afraid.

 

[takno]

I didn't end up going until September Yorkie. If you remember the Northern Rail services didn't get back to any kind of usefulness until then. Getting over to Morecambe was a real nightmare!


Your quite right there. I live in Allerton and I remember getting home from Bradford city centre,switching Sky News on and I couldn't believe what I was seeing!
Although the government have made a bit of a mess of things,and the Police are not going about things the correct way,I cannot help but think that things wouldn't be as bad if the minority of the public would just do the very basic things,sanitizing their hands would be a good start.
Going to the local shop is a nightmare. People not sanitizing their hands after handling the door, people not wearing face masks who are not exempt ( I know this for a fact,because people I know buy an exemption card from the local pound shop ).
The reason I get so frustrated with these things is because although I am exempt myself due to having asthma,and also being on daily medication to control it,I wear a face covering not only to protect myself but to protect others too.
I suppose my main gripe is this..............the police are targeting the wrong people.........and that is wear the trouble could start I'm afraid.

If your asthma doesn't cause you problems wearing a mask then you aren't exempt. The people claiming exemptions are doing so because it's disproportionately difficult or impossible for you to wear a mask, and serious asthma is one of the things that can cause that.

I have no idea why you know people who've been buying a badge you can print out for free, but I guess maybe they don't have a printer. Either way, they may be buying them because they, unlike you, are exempt.

You do you.

 

[bramling]

Southern train just now. I get on, in a carriage with tables and bays of 4 seats. Mid-20s guy sitting in seat D (imagine in your mind 16 seats labelled A-P, from left to right).

Seeing me with no mask on, but wearing my lanyard, I sit down in seat P with 2 tables and 2 pairs of back-to-back seats between us ... and he’s so irrational, he gets up and walks through to the next carriage!


As evidenced by this sad story in the Brighton Argus.
Two suicides on the railway in their catchment area, within one hour of each other, and what appears to be an attempted suicide from the clifftop near Brighton Marina, on the same day

Police confirm two people have died after being hit by trains this afternoon

TWO people have died after being hit by trains in Sussex in two separate incidents, police have confirmed.

www.theargus.co.uk

Multi-agency emergency underway at Brighton Marina

EMERGENCY services have been called to the cliff at Brighton Marina this evening.

www.theargus.co.uk

I had something similar this evening. Very empty 12-car train. Woman comes marching up, *really* foul look which presumably related to seeing no mask, and then storms off elsewhere. So the gist of it seems to be lack of mask is utterly terrible, but otherwise happy to completely ignore distancing in order to sit in favourite seat.

On that score (given that masks are clearly useless anyway) I think one is better not to wear one if it keeps these types away. I’m an antisocial so and so at the best of times, if I wanted people near me when I travel to and from work then I’d choose a 9-5 job!

 

[MCSHF007]

If your asthma doesn't cause you problems wearing a mask then you aren't exempt. The people claiming exemptions are doing so because it's disproportionately difficult or impossible for you to wear a mask, and serious asthma is one of the things that can cause that.

I have no idea why you know people who've been buying a badge you can print out for free, but I guess maybe they don't have a printer. Either way, they may be buying them because they, unlike you, are exempt.

You do you.

I have asthma (and borderline COPD). A mask doesn't help at al but I still wear one for the relatively very short times I'm in shops or on buses. Given current restrictions I have no valid reason to travel by train.

What p*sses me off is hearing so many people tell supermarket/shop security staff (or the occasional bus driver who asks a polite question re lack of mask) "I suffer from anxiety, I'm exempt". Although I reluctantly accept that a few genuine souls may have conditions/life experiences justifying these assertions I also feel that far too many people use this as an unprovable excuse to carry on doing just what the **** they want regardless of the national interest.

 

[Cdd89]

What p*sses me off is hearing so many people tell supermarket/shop security staff (or the occasional bus driver who asks a polite question re lack of mask) "I suffer from anxiety, I'm exempt".

Out of interest, what answer could you overhear that would satisfy you?

 

[Bantamzen]

I’m making no assumptions about support or opposition, and fully agree that views will vary considerably. I merely question the role of personal bias in interpreting ones own encounters with others as a guide to how people in general may react

Many of my experiences come from a long spell earlier in my career dealing with people face to face. I got to see first hand what effect things like job loss, health issues & depression can do to people. Those are experiences I will take with me to the grave, because believe me when I say this, people can seem secure on the outside but completely wreaked when you have to open up their lives a little.

I have asthma (and borderline COPD). A mask doesn't help at al but I still wear one for the relatively very short times I'm in shops or on buses. Given current restrictions I have no valid reason to travel by train.

What p*sses me off is hearing so many people tell supermarket/shop security staff (or the occasional bus driver who asks a polite question re lack of mask) "I suffer from anxiety, I'm exempt". Although I reluctantly accept that a few genuine souls may have conditions/life experiences justifying these assertions I also feel that far too many people use this as an unprovable excuse to carry on doing just what the **** they want regardless of the national interest.

Firstly you are exempt, you should not feel pressured to do something that could cause you serious issues in "the national interest". Nobody is asking you to potentially make your conditions worse, or at least they should not be doing so.

Secondly, anxiety is no joke. I know, I've battled with it for years. In fact so bad did it get at one point that in order to leave the house and walk to the train station to go to work I sometimes literally had to consciously think about every single step I took, move left leg, move right leg, move left leg etc. Because if I didn't I would literally freeze where I stood struggling for breath, and if that happened it could often take several minutes for me to calm myself enough to even think about moving again. It can be terrifying because you never know when an attack would come, and if it could lead to an accident or even an untimely demise. This is why anxiety is one of the listed exemptions from wearing a mask.

Thankfully at the moment I have it mostly under control, and as such I do wear a covering when (and only when) required by law. However should I ever find myself back in the dark days, I would not hesitate to do the lanyard I bought as a "just in case". And make no mistake, I am far from alone. Anxiety is far more widespread that you imagine, people suffering from it may not show any external signs of it, and it can effect all ages, sexes, creeds. You cannot diagnose someone just by looking at them, the causes of anxiety are many and can hit literally anyone, at any time, anywhere. It can be anything from stress, trauma, even actual physical damage to the brain.

It might help your stress levels a lot if you try to remember that.

 

[DB]

The reason I get so frustrated with these things is because although I am exempt myself due to having asthma,and also being on daily medication to control it,I wear a face covering not only to protect myself but to protect others too.

There is no evidence that masks, as used in public situtations, are protecting anyone.

 

[nedchester]

There is no evidence that masks, as used in public situtations, are protecting anyone.

Evidence that they aren’t?

The point is that it might be helpful and there IS some evidence that an infected person may not transmit as much. It also reduces anxiety levels of those worried about the virus.

Again, as I have said before, I hate the things but I get the impression that a good few on here don’t WANT to wear them rather than having any genuine exemption. These people need to grow up.

 

[DB]

Evidence that they aren’t?

The point is that it might be helpful and there IS some evidence that an infected person may not transmit as much. It also reduces anxiety levels of those worried about the virus.

Again, as I have said before, I hate the things but I get the impression that a good few on here don’t WANT to wear them rather than having any genuine exemption. These people need to grow up.

How many times have we been through this?

Supposedly medical interventions should be based on demonstrating that something does work as it's very difficult to prove a negative - and this is normaly how it's done in all scientific disciplines. Can you 'prove', using evidence, that wearing a sombrero doesn't have any effect?

The fact that no graph of infection in any country shows a downward trend (or an increase in an existing trend) following a mask mandate is actually a pretty good indication of their lack of effectiveness, though some countries' graphs seem to indicate that the masks might be causing some increase - this isn't certain by any means, but it is a possibility, and is of course ignored by governments and their spproved scientists (who would doubtless be keen to highlight it as evidence that masks work if the trend was in the other direction).

I'm afraid that whatever 'impression' you have on whether or not people want to wear them is irrelevant to the question of whether masks actually work. As for 'growing up', it's those in favour of restrictions who need to do this - many are showing a childlike propensity to believe and parrot everything the government says.

 

[Bantamzen]

Evidence that they aren’t?

The point is that it might be helpful and there IS some evidence that an infected person may not transmit as much. It also reduces anxiety levels of those worried about the virus.

When something is imposed, is it not the responsibility of those imposing it to prove that it has an effect? Otherwise you leave open the window for anything to be imposed on the basis of "well there is no evidence it doesn't work".

Again, as I have said before, I hate the things but I get the impression that a good few on here don’t WANT to wear them rather than having any genuine exemption. These people need to grow up.

I agree, it is time for people to grow up & start taking back responsibility for themselves instead of clinging to the government's trouser legs.

 

[35B]

How many times have we been through this?

Supposedly medical interventions should be based on demonstrating that something does work as it's very difficult to prove a negative - and this is normaly how it's done in all scientific disciplines. Can you 'prove', using evidence, that wearing a sombrero doesn't have any effect?

The fact that no graph of infection in any country shows a downward trend (or an increase in an existing trend) following a mask mandate is actually a pretty good indication of their lack of effectiveness, though some countries' graphs seem to indicate that the masks might be causing some increase - this isn't certain by any means, but it is a possibility, and is of course ignored by governments and their spproved scientists (who would doubtless be keen to highlight it as evidence that masks work if the trend was in the other direction).

I'm afraid that whatever 'impression' you have on whether or not people want to wear them is irrelevant to the question of whether masks actually work. As for 'growing up', it's those in favour of restrictions who need to do this - many are showing a childlike propensity to believe and parrot everything the government says.

Except that there is research showing some impact on transmission from the application of mask wearing mandates. It’s not completely cut and dried, but supported by research evidence. You, and others, in your interpretations of case graphs, consistently fail to consider the “what if” of not having a mask mandate, and also the possibility that an intervention that is less than perfect may still be of value. Likewise, I’m always intrigued by the insistence of some that nothing less than gold standard research (i.e. double blinded RCT) can be good enough to use for a policy intervention.

Given the low impact nature of this non medical intervention, and a reasonable policy of permitting exemptions to those who genuinely can’t tolerate them, I am always surprised at quite how much animosity mask wearing requirements cause.

Like @nedchester, I’ll be delighted when I can junk mine and go back to being unmasked. But, of the various interventions in play, mask wearing is the least intrusive.

 

[yorksrob]

Imperial College are banging their war drums again this morning, calling for an even stricter lockdown off the back of their react study.

 

[nedchester]

How many times have we been through this?

Supposedly medical interventions should be based on demonstrating that something does work as it's very difficult to prove a negative - and this is normaly how it's done in all scientific disciplines. Can you 'prove', using evidence, that wearing a sombrero doesn't have any effect?

The fact that no graph of infection in any country shows a downward trend (or an increase in an existing trend) following a mask mandate is actually a pretty good indication of their lack of effectiveness, though some countries' graphs seem to indicate that the masks might be causing some increase - this isn't certain by any means, but it is a possibility, and is of course ignored by governments and their spproved scientists (who would doubtless be keen to highlight it as evidence that masks work if the trend was in the other direction).

I'm afraid that whatever 'impression' you have on whether or not people want to wear them is irrelevant to the question of whether masks actually work. As for 'growing up', it's those in favour of restrictions who need to do this - many are showing a childlike propensity to believe and parrot everything the government says.

Put it this way if something “might” help then why not go along with it instead of having a toddler tantrum? If in time it doesn’t work then nothing lost.

I’m not a fan of lockdowns either but I can see the reason why they’re needed at the moment due to the hospitals being overwhelmed. I’m desperate for the restrictions to end but do look at the evidence around me to see what is or is not needed at this time.

 

[notlob.divad]

I would believe this IF last summer, when only a small number of people were in hospital with covid, treatments had returned to normal... Except they didn't. Hospitals were no where near overrun (remember there being the comments about multiple hospitals per patient) yet treatment was still consistently significantly below 100%.

Comments are not factual information. And the NHS has also been trying where possible to work within social distancing guidelines. This has meant spacing out appointments and reducing the numbers of people in their waiting rooms at any one time. Clearly this has an effect on the numbers of people who can be seen and throughput will be lower.

If you really want the NHS to be getting back towards normality as quickly as possible, you should be asking for a harsher (China-style) lockdown where you cannot leave your house at all, the army deliver food and esentials to you etc. Combined with completly shut borders including no accompanied freight transportation. That would drive the transmission rates much lower, reducing the pressures on the health system quicker and allowing it to start re-prioritising towards dealing with the backlog.

 

[DB]

Except that there is research showing some impact on transmission from the application of mask wearing mandates. It’s not completely cut and dried, but supported by research evidence. You, and others, in your interpretations of case graphs, consistently fail to consider the “what if” of not having a mask mandate, and also the possibility that an intervention that is less than perfect may still be of value. Likewise, I’m always intrigued by the insistence of some that nothing less than gold standard research (i.e. double blinded RCT) can be good enough to use for a policy intervention.

Given the low impact nature of this non medical intervention, and a reasonable policy of permitting exemptions to those who genuinely can’t tolerate them, I am always surprised at quite how much animosity mask wearing requirements cause.

Like @nedchester, I’ll be delighted when I can junk mine and go back to being unmasked. But, of the various interventions in play, mask wearing is the least intrusive.

Same old, same old.

The 'what if' might be believable with a small sample size, but given the number of countries which have imposed mask mandates it is simply not credible that masks work and yet nowhere shows a positive impact or even a change in graph trajectory - with the larger dataset trends are visible, and if there is one at all here it's the opposite of what is claimed.

The 'research evidence' is nearly all syntheses of cherry-picked studies in medical settings or implausible experiments involving hamsters. We've been through all this before repeatedly, including looking at these studies. Please don't cite that awful Oxford-backed one again - the one which claims to demonstrate that masks work in public on the basis of three out of the four studies which they lookeed at (all in medical settings in the far east) showing this.

Things less than a double blind RCT might well be fine if they are reasonable, but studies which look at controlled environments and then claim they prove something about the general public are not. Likewise, evidence that something actually works in practice (e.g. identificable reductions in infections following mask mandates) would be fine as well - but there is no such evidence.

You might regard them as 'low impact' - those of us who can't wear them and are now being treated as toxic filth by a minority of the public would disagree.

Put it this way if something “might” help then why not go along with it instead of having a toddler tantrum? If in time it doesn’t work then nothing lost.

I’m not a fan of lockdowns either but I can see the reason why they’re needed at the moment due to the hospitals being overwhelmed. I’m desperate for the restrictions to end but do look at the evidence around me to see what is or is not needed at this time.

Nobody is having a 'toddler tantrum' (apart from some maskivists on encountering someone without a mask).

Supposed scientific interventions should be on the basis of evidence, not 'well, it might work'. Masks are leading to discrimination against people who can't wear them. They are costing a fortune. They are producing many tons of polluting waste containing plastics - all of those are demonstrable reasons not to mandate them. The reasons for are far more woolly and the 'growing evidence' for their effectiveness which the government claimed when imposing the mask mandate back in July has still not appeared.

 

[roversfan2001]

If you really want the NHS to be getting back towards normality as quickly as possible, you should be asking for a harsher (China-style) lockdown where you cannot leave your house at all, the army deliver food and esentials to you etc. Combined with completly shut borders including no accompanied freight transportation. That would drive the transmission rates much lower, reducing the pressures on the health system quicker and allowing it to start re-prioritising towards dealing with the backlog.

Horse > Bolted > Stable door > Close

 

[Bantamzen]

If you really want the NHS to be getting back towards normality as quickly as possible, you should be asking for a harsher (China-style) lockdown where you cannot leave your house at all, the army deliver food and esentials to you etc. Combined with completly shut borders including no accompanied freight transportation. That would drive the transmission rates much lower, reducing the pressures on the health system quicker and allowing it to start re-prioritising towards dealing with the backlog.

I don't even know where to start with this, but here's a shot. Where's the army resources going to come from to feed 65-67 million people? Remember China has a much larger army proportionally to the UK, and it wasn't the whole of China sealed into their homes.

 

[TheBeard]

The 1% is an official UK figure. It is grim, but not that grim compared to some of the more hysterical estimate, and realistic.
If you agree 15% have had it, its not so far out. Remember this is a slow spreader, particularly with the way we lockdown, and the statistic probably covers upto 5 years of waves.
So the strategy has become a harsh lockdown cos it ran riot in South East pubs before Xmas. And the Xmas
Because there is no scientific realism that some people won't make it.
Far better for everyones health to have shops, haircuts, schools, days out. And let the old and frail sit out a few more weeks for a vaccine.
The people in Sweden are thin, a huge difference to when you look here, and they chew tobacco, instead of smoking it.. Just wait for SAGE to suggest Enforced imprisonment for the obese and starvation will be next!?!
My fight is no to even more of this after vaccines.

 

[py_megapixel]

If you really want the NHS to be getting back towards normality as quickly as possible, you should be asking for a harsher (China-style) lockdown where you cannot leave your house at all, the army deliver food and esentials to you etc. Combined with completly shut borders including no accompanied freight transportation. That would drive the transmission rates much lower, reducing the pressures on the health system quicker and allowing it to start re-prioritising towards dealing with the backlog.

I don't even know where to start with this, but here's a shot. Where's the army resources going to come from to feed 65-67 million people? Remember China has a much larger army proportionally to the UK, and it wasn't the whole of China sealed into their homes.

That's not the biggest problem with this suggestion. If you were going to do this, even for just a couple of weeks, how on earth do you expect people to be able to exercise and get fresh air?

Also I wouldn't trust this government not to screw up food deliveries. Unless you want everyone to just eat gruel, you'd end up with the delivering meat to vegetarians, nut-based foods to those with nut allergies, foods high in sugar to diabetics, etc etc.