New national restrictions in Scotland

[kez19]

What I said was:


Some restrictions will still make sense, for some period of time after the vaccination program is completed. For example, while there are hotspots around the world it makes sense to limit travel to (and more importantly, from) those locations if for not other reason that preventing the importation of variants for which our vaccines aren't effective.

The vast majority of people will be able to get out and about with few if any restrictions on their day to day activities once more than c. 70% of the population is vaccinated.


I know it's fun to argue on the Internet, but we actually aren't in disagreement. Put the flamethrower down and read what I wrote again.

The restrictions don’t make sense most of the time, you mention restrict travel well blow me down tell that to Piers Morgan and the cabal to sit on their backsides and not to travel.

I’ll hold my breath regarding getting some of my normal activities back as knowing this lot they’ll drag it out for the sake of trying to look good

Just to add some of the quotes:

He said: "I think it is important that we are clear with the public that although the vaccination programme is going well, although it is becoming more extensive in the country, there will be a need for some considerable time - I don't know how long that will be - for us to live with more restrictions and mitigations that we had before the pandemic.

“I think face coverings are likely to be a pretty regular part of life for some time to come. I don't know how long it will be, but it will be a fact of life for some time to come.

Face coverings to be part of regular life for some time to come, but I don't know for how long but it'll be a fact of life for some time (double speak there John!)

“Physical distancing is something that we will have to try to observe, to make sure that we can be confident about the environment in which we are living.



“Some of the restrictions might have to be in place for longer than the completion of the vaccination programme, to assure us of the security of the population.
"Of course there will also be a emerging information about the efficacy and effectiveness of the vaccine, which we will only know as we see more of the application of the vaccine within society.”

Seems pretty clear they have forgotten what the world was pre-Covid, but as John states he is later contradicted by Jason (quelle surprise)!

National Clinical Director Jason Leitch added that vaccination is not complete until all countries go through their own programme.

“This is not about Scotland being vaccinated. It's about the world being vaccinated,” he said.

So as mentioned, we have to wait on the world being vaccinated? Jason does state that above.

He added that vaccines “for now, don’t change behaviour”.
“If you are vaccinated, you still follow all the same safety measures as the rest of us,” he said.
"In time, that will change, once we have more research, once we get prevalence down to a lower level.”
He added that normality “seems more likely because of the vaccination programme.”

Vaccines don't change behaviour, since when did a vaccine change beaviour?, you get the flu jab life goes on, but with this lets hibernate!

If vaccinated - follow the rules (so whats the point in being vaccinated again?)

then in summary - normality seems more likely because of the vaccination programme - eh? So when/where is normality there John? I'm sorry but from what I have directly quoted its mixed messaging and isn't reassuring at all.

They praise the vaccine/vaccination but at same time have no sense of when reality will return but still as long as the vaccines are happening we still have to abide by rules - masks/distancing etc.


As I stated above - Scottish Government may as well scrap the roll up the sleeve ad as its blantly misleading and by their comments its laughable, if you look up the ad on Youtube or TV - there is part of the script that someone says like "i'm rolling up my sleeve so I can get back to the things I love and get back to normal" - so going by whats been picked up in The Scotsman thats misleading.

*The UK government are just as bad with messaging also.

Covid-19 restrictions will not be scrapped when vaccine rollout complete, says Deputy First Minister

Covid-19 restrictions will not be scrapped in Scotland once the vaccination programme is complete, Deputy First Minister John Swinney has said.

www.scotsman.com

 

[devon_metro]

Bonkers if masks and social distancing are still in place once the adult population is vaccinated. What are we protecting against? The vaccines aren't 100% effective, but all protect against serious illness (including AZ against the South Africa strain). How can businesses continue to operate if numbers are restricted? Life has been frankly miserable and when things were open last year, we put up with some restrictions because we understood there was a risk without a vaccine. Now we have multiple vaccines. Public tolerance of restrictions is going to be in very short supply.

 

[kez19]

Bonkers if masks and social distancing are still in place once the adult population is vaccinated. What are we protecting against? The vaccines aren't 100% effective, but all protect against serious illness (including AZ against the South Africa strain). How can businesses continue to operate if numbers are restricted? Life has been frankly miserable and when things were open last year, we put up with some restrictions because we understood there was a risk without a vaccine. Now we have multiple vaccines. Public tolerance of restrictions is going to be in very short supply.

Either that or they clearly no something that the public don't? (this is just in gist) but agree with you.

Mind you wasn't less than a few weeks ago John Swinney was saying that the public *may* have to wear FPP/FPP2 masks

Scots could have to wear medical grade facemasks

The Scottish Government is looking at the policy for single-use filtering face piece (FFP) surgical masks, already in place across Germany.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

Scots could be asked to wear medical grade face coverings to protect them from fast-spreading strains of Covid-19.


The policy is being “actively explored” by the Scottish Government, in line with other countries including Germany where the rules are changing.


Deputy First Minister John Swinney revealed the possible new measure, suggesting Scots could have to wear so-called FFP coverings instead of cloth ones.


"We’ve got to make sure we take the most effective measures to suppress the virus and be advised about the clinical value of particular steps to take,” he said.


"The question about the higher grade face covering is one that is being actively explored within government today."

So at a guess he'll also want the public to start buying up these masks next, is it just me but do I just see this as a money making scheme? I said this on numerous threads even at UK Government level but it seems more and more the public are spending out of their own pocket on masks or be the opposite be fined by police.


Going back on John Swinney/Sturgeon et al, it seems more that one hand is not talking to the other.

 

[joncombe]

I think people need to divorce themselves from the idea of "back to normal". Even if Covid-19 disappeared tomorrow we aren't going back to exactly where we were before.

A year or more of remote working represents a paradigm shift for businesses, there's going to be a lot fewer people commuting into city centres on a daily basis.

Agree that this seems likely.

Similarly, the boom in online shopping and food delivery is likely to be here to stay, going out to eat is likely to be less of a thing that it was.

I agree with the former. I strongly disagree with the latter. I suspect it will actually increase. We saw last summer restaurants were packed with the "eat out to help out". If people are not coming into work every day I suspect there will be more socialising on the times that they do. Similarly I think the public will have a desire to meet up after not seeing people for months or even more than a year. I think people working from home most of the time will be more likely to go out and socialise in the evenings given they may have minimal social contact during the working day. So I really don't think eating out is going to drop.

 

[devon_metro]

Either that or they clearly no something that the public don't? (this is just in gist) but agree with you.

Mind you wasn't less than a few weeks ago John Swinney was saying that the public *may* have to wear FPP/FPP2 masks

Scots could have to wear medical grade facemasks

The Scottish Government is looking at the policy for single-use filtering face piece (FFP) surgical masks, already in place across Germany.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

In fairness, Swinney doesn't strike me as the most switched on so i'd take what he says with a pinch of salt. In fact, many of the SNP cabinet ministers would fall into that bracket. Most are separatist campaigners thrust into important jobs by virtue of winning elections. The more qualified seem to reside in Westminster, which is a shame when they have 0 power there.

It will be interesting to see if Scotland goes for the "zero covid" strategy proposed by some of the "independent(supporting)" health advisors they have. We know England won't due to the economic implications of trying to achieve this, and I can guarantee there would be a stream of Scots crossing the border if England was largely back to normal and Scotland was being cautious.

 

[Journeyman]

It will be interesting to see if Scotland goes for the "zero covid" strategy proposed by some of the "independent(supporting)" health advisors they have. We know England won't due to the economic implications of trying to achieve this, and I can guarantee there would be a stream of Scots crossing the border if England was largely back to normal and Scotland was being cautious.

That's if we're allowed to.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

In fairness, Swinney doesn't strike me as the most switched on so i'd take what he says with a pinch of salt. In fact, many of the SNP cabinet ministers would fall into that bracket. Most are separatist campaigners thrust into important jobs by virtue of winning elections. The more qualified seem to reside in Westminster, which is a shame when they have 0 power there.

It will be interesting to see if Scotland goes for the "zero covid" strategy proposed by some of the "independent(supporting)" health advisors they have. We know England won't due to the economic implications of trying to achieve this, and I can guarantee there would be a stream of Scots crossing the border if England was largely back to normal and Scotland was being cautious.

I think you have summed the SNP and their covid response up pretty damn accurately there. They are merely a one person party aiming for one thing and one thing only.

 

[najaB]

Similarly I think the public will have a desire to meet up after not seeing people for months or even more than a year. I think people working from home most of the time will be more likely to go out and socialise in the evenings given they may have minimal social contact during the working day. So I really don't think eating out is going to drop.

I agree - I wasn't thinking as much about social eating, more about people who regularly pop out to a local takeaway for a meal rather than cooking.

 

[kez19]

In fairness, Swinney doesn't strike me as the most switched on so i'd take what he says with a pinch of salt. In fact, many of the SNP cabinet ministers would fall into that bracket. Most are separatist campaigners thrust into important jobs by virtue of winning elections. The more qualified seem to reside in Westminster, which is a shame when they have 0 power there.

It will be interesting to see if Scotland goes for the "zero covid" strategy proposed by some of the "independent(supporting)" health advisors they have. We know England won't due to the economic implications of trying to achieve this, and I can guarantee there would be a stream of Scots crossing the border if England was largely back to normal and Scotland was being cautious.

It was tried in the summer and it failed. I don't get this whole zero covid approach but what do I know.

As for crossing between England/Scotland that wouldn't be surprise me either.

 

[Scotrail12]

That's if we're allowed to.

People will just go anyway, it's pretty hard to enforce.

Zero COVID just isn't possible. Sturgeon knows it for sure.

 

[Journeyman]

People will just go anyway, it's pretty hard to enforce.

Zero COVID just isn't possible. Sturgeon knows it for sure.

Yeah. She's just attempting to look good for the forthcoming elections.

 

[Chester1]

That's if we're allowed to.

You won't be. I have said before, I cannot see non essential travel from England to Scotland being allowed before the end of the school summer holidays. With Scotland planning to hotel quarantine all international arrivals it would mean most Scots would holiday in the rest of the UK because while the weather isn't great its better than a Scottish summer. That simply won't be allowed to happen in case travel reminds people of the bonds within the UK. Everything the SNP do is calculated based on its affect on independence. The largest number traveling to England, Wales and Northern Ireland in a generation simply won't happen when the SNP are furiously demanding a referendum (or the UK government has connceeded to one). Perhaps people might be allowed day trips but I doubt it.

 

[takno]

You won't be. I have said before, I cannot see non essential travel from England to Scotland being allowed before the end of the school summer holidays. With Scotland planning to hotel quarantine all international arrivals it would mean most Scots would holiday in the rest of the UK because while the weather isn't great its better than a Scottish summer. That simply won't be allowed to happen in case travel reminds people of the bonds within the UK. Everything the SNP do is calculated based on its affect on independence. The largest number traveling to England, Wales and Northern Ireland in a generation simply won't happen when the SNP are furiously demanding a referendum (or the UK government has connceeded to one). Perhaps people might be allowed day trips but I doubt it.

You may have said it before, but if they tried to enforce that it would likely be grounds for suspending the Holyrood government, and would certainly lose all the legitimacy the SNP have. They won't do it

 

[Journeyman]

You won't be. I have said before, I cannot see non essential travel from England to Scotland being allowed before the end of the school summer holidays. With Scotland planning to hotel quarantine all international arrivals it would mean most Scots would holiday in the rest of the UK because while the weather isn't great its better than a Scottish summer. That simply won't be allowed to happen in case travel reminds people of the bonds within the UK. Everything the SNP do is calculated based on its affect on independence. The largest number traveling to England, Wales and Northern Ireland in a generation simply won't happen when the SNP are furiously demanding a referendum (or the UK government has connceeded to one). Perhaps people might be allowed day trips but I doubt it.

Sadly I think you're right. A lot of hardcore nationalists want to cut all the ties we have with England, and this is a perfect excuse to do it.

You may have said it before, but if they tried to enforce that it would likely be grounds for suspending the Holyrood government, and would certainly lose all the legitimacy the SNP have. They won't do it

They love a constitutional crisis. It'll play right into their hands.

 

[kez19]

You won't be. I have said before, I cannot see non essential travel from England to Scotland being allowed before the end of the school summer holidays. With Scotland planning to hotel quarantine all international arrivals it would mean most Scots would holiday in the rest of the UK because while the weather isn't great its better than a Scottish summer. That simply won't be allowed to happen in case travel reminds people of the bonds within the UK. Everything the SNP do is calculated based on its affect on independence. The largest number traveling to England, Wales and Northern Ireland in a generation simply won't happen when the SNP are furiously demanding a referendum (or the UK government has connceeded to one). Perhaps people might be allowed day trips but I doubt it.

I personally wouldn't care, come round June time I am still hoping to go down south than be in Scotland, already a year has gone and what I would have done originally last year i'm no longer feeling I will hold back, I will just do it if it comes to it.

As for non essential travel in general to England: maybe the politicians themselves would follow the rulebook on that and stay in Scotland/home, again thought not, so why should the public be told you can't but they can? Before you say it, they can Skype/Zoom just like everyone else if thats the case, if not then if they do it we do it (simple)

As for day trips I want that sooner (again as what I mentioned above), I know a few areas I could spend a day in but I wouldn't mind if that is lifted sooner than later.

Sadly I think you're right. A lot of hardcore nationalists want to cut all the ties we have with England, and this is a perfect excuse to do it.


They love a constitutional crisis. It'll play right into their hands.

Yet you could say all that matters is their lives (MPs) but none whatsoever of the public - it may play into their hands but it can backfire massively.

 

[devon_metro]

Sadly I think you're right. A lot of hardcore nationalists want to cut all the ties we have with England, and this is a perfect excuse to do it.


They love a constitutional crisis. It'll play right into their hands.

If England is so dangerous, maybe the lorries delivering food should be stopped and see how long it lasts. There's only so many products in the supermarket with a Saltire on.

As for travel not being allowed until the summer holidays. My experience of crossing the border is that it's pretty porous, because it's not a border, it's an administrative boundary. I'm sure folk would happily "chance it" like they already are with meeting up with their friends and having parties etc. The border with England should be the least of the concerns for controlling the virus, but as you say, they love a constitutional crisis. Apparently a lot people in Glasgow don't even bother with masks!

 

[Chester1]

You may have said it before, but if they tried to enforce that it would likely be grounds for suspending the Holyrood government, and would certainly lose all the legitimacy the SNP have. They won't do it

There is no chance of a UK government suspending Holyrood. Absolutely none. It would be sold around the world as anti democratic and neo colonialist. Legislating to limit the Scottish Parliaments action would be very toxic. The UK government will heavily criticise excessive Covid restrictions in Scotland but not intervene. If Scots give the SNP a majority in May then that is their choice.

Sadly I think you're right. A lot of hardcore nationalists want to cut all the ties we have with England, and this is a perfect excuse to do it.

Apart from thinking they have an absolute right to rUK citizenship to live and work in England...

All they need to do is only lift the current travel restrictions within Scotland and find reasons to justify keeping a ban on non essential travel outside Scotland. Whenever England opens up will be sold to Scots as being too early. They will say England has a higher case rates, more variants etc etc. Even if Wales isn't included there are (I don't think) any direct flights. Maybe travel to Northern Ireland will be allowed if cases are low.

 

[kristiang85]

You won't be. I have said before, I cannot see non essential travel from England to Scotland being allowed before the end of the school summer holidays. With Scotland planning to hotel quarantine all international arrivals it would mean most Scots would holiday in the rest of the UK because while the weather isn't great its better than a Scottish summer. That simply won't be allowed to happen in case travel reminds people of the bonds within the UK. Everything the SNP do is calculated based on its affect on independence. The largest number traveling to England, Wales and Northern Ireland in a generation simply won't happen when the SNP are furiously demanding a referendum (or the UK government has connceeded to one). Perhaps people might be allowed day trips but I doubt it.

Well, my parents live in Scotland and I haven't seen them since Christmas 2019. We said we'd stay apart last Christmas due to the rules, but on the understanding we meet up at least by March/April when all our birthdays hit. Sturgeon has another thnig coming if she thinks she's going to stop that.

But indeed I can see her being motiviated to do that because of the underlying independence intentions. But I think if she continues this into May, the more level headed nationalists could desert her party at the ballot boxes.

 

[Huntergreed]

Don’t be ridiculous, there’s absolutely no justification for keeping the England border closed after this lockdown. If they were able to open it last summer and we’re all still here, then the same will apply this summer, given we now have vaccines to protect us.

Any attempt to enforce this beyond the lockdown will likely result in an immediate suspension of devolution, and practically guaranteed Westminster saying “no” to Indyref 2. It’s not happening.

 

[HSTEd]

The Westminster government is not going to squander precious political capital picking a fight with Holyrood over lockdowns, especially when the SNP wins a huge majority in May.

That's just the way it is.
If Scots don't want the eternal lockdown to continue then I'm afraid your only choice is to not vote for pro-independence parties.

 

[Huntergreed]

Keeping the border closed over summer would be a disaster for both the Scottish and the English economy. Certainly in my area (Dumfries and Galloway) a large proportion of the economy comes from tourists who visit from down south over the summer break, make use of the campsites and holiday parks and support the local businesses. I imagine this is effect is amplified in the highlands where I know many English tourists visit to get a break from city life.

A large proportion of our domestic air and long-distance rail and coach travel would be, once again, carting fresh air around, it simply wouldn’t be viable for no good reason (she can defend it now, but can she defend it when cases are very low and the NHS is not at all overwhelmed?)

She may be nationalist, but she’s not stupid, and she knows that even some of the softer nationalists would lose support for her if she went ahead with this. That said, given swinney’s comments, I bet they’re considering it. If they do, I will be very angry indeed, and I won’t hesitate to actively make them aware of this.

 

[kez19]

The Westminster government is not going to squander precious political capital picking a fight with Holyrood over lockdowns, especially when the SNP wins a huge majority in May.

That's just the way it is.
If Scots don't want the eternal lockdown to continue then I'm afraid your only choice is to not vote for pro-independence parties.

And unfortunately par Ruth Davidson the opposition up in Scotland are pathetic anyway so why bother?

You may as well throw Labour under the pro independence too so Scotland only has Conservatives or SNP and the smaller parties if they exist in the area, so for me I’m gubbed regardless of voting

 

[Peter0124]

Dont think I'll vote for any party, certainly not the SNP if they're gonna close the border like that despite most of the UK getting the jab. Its just unfair.

 

[kez19]

Dont think I'll vote for any party, certainly not the SNP if they're gonna close the border like that despite most of the UK getting the jab. Its just unfair.

Rather than everyone’s lives matter it’s more becoming politicians lives matter (public are second)

 

[najaB]

There's a near-zero chance of the Scottish Government trying to close the England/Scotland border over summer. The science doesn't support it and neither can the economy.

Methinks this is a bit of a tempest in a teacup.

 

[XAM2175]

You may as well throw Labour under the pro independence too

Both Sir Keir and Anas Sarwar appear to be fairly set against it, don't they? Of course with the whole Bain Principle thing Labour up here do seem to spend a lot of the time agreeing with the Tories one way or the other.

Methinks this is a bit of a tempest in a teacup.

Quite.

 

[Chester1]

There's a near-zero chance of the Scottish Government trying to close the England/Scotland border over summer. The science doesn't support it and neither can the economy.

Methinks this is a bit of a tempest in a teacup.

They won't close it because it is already semi closed! It has been closed for non essential journeys since the end of last year (pre lockdown with exception of Christmas day). Westminster did not intervene and were never going to. What I am saying is that whenever England unlocks (regardless of when) the SNP will say its too soon and case rates in England are a threat to Scotland so the current non essential cross border journey ban cannot be lifted. Scotland is going to hotel quarantine all international arrivals while England is being selective, with the SNP already saying that is dangerous and will let new variants in. The SNP are effectively banning international holidays this year. Come July do you think they will be happy with the largest number of Scots holidaying in England and Wales for a generation? While they will be furiously demanding a referendum on separation? Between England’s case rate, England not hotel quarantining international arrivals and lack of completion of vaccination program (2 doses for everyone) they have the reasons they need. Scottish schools start their new year in August. That should be approximately when adults have had two doses and when I think the SNP will decide to allow non essential cross border travel.

 

[kez19]

Both Sir Keir and Anas Sarwar appear to be fairly set against it, don't they? Of course with the whole Bain Principle thing Labour up here do seem to spend a lot of the time agreeing with the Tories one way or the other.


Quite.

My own opinion like similar to the UK Government it looks like in most cases the opposition parties agree with the main party (quelle surprise)!, I ask myself what opposition?

 

[Mag_seven]

I ask myself what opposition?

In the UK Tory government the opposition isn't Labour, its other Tories who are sceptical of lockdowns.

 

[kez19]

In the UK Tory government the opposition isn't Labour, its other Tories who are sceptical of lockdowns.

I agree but you expect Labour to be that opposition as they are meant to be, similar up in Scotland - its like opposition parties are quite happy with the restrictions who would demand more (casing point Keir with the UK government), I thought the whole point of opposition parties was that they are meant to well say..no at times? Yet for me it comes more across as if the opposition parties are enjoying all this too (so again who do the public vote for if there is no opposition let alone if we have to rely on independent parties/candidates - who may in turn throw their vote to one of the main parties), I know it maybe a bit off topic but on this part its not just a Scotland issue its a UK issue too.

They won't close it because it is already semi closed! It has been closed for non essential journeys since the end of last year (pre lockdown with exception of Christmas day). Westminster did not intervene and were never going to. What I am saying is that whenever England unlocks (regardless of when) the SNP will say its too soon and case rates in England are a threat to Scotland so the current non essential cross border journey ban cannot be lifted. Scotland is going to hotel quarantine all international arrivals while England is being selective, with the SNP already saying that is dangerous and will let new variants in. The SNP are effectively banning international holidays this year. Come July do you think they will be happy with the largest number of Scots holidaying in England and Wales for a generation? While they will be furiously demanding a referendum on separation? Between England’s case rate, England not hotel quarantining international arrivals and lack of completion of vaccination program (2 doses for everyone) they have the reasons they need. Scottish schools start their new year in August. That should be approximately when adults have had two doses and when I think the SNP will decide to allow non essential cross border travel.

If you also remember there was stories during lockdown that some from Scotland had ventured to Wales and vice versa England/Wales, I think if a ban drags further out people will be right to complain, people I speak to are generally fed up of it all and want to get some normalcy back not this pissy footing around