Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Brissle Girl]

We have to read the NR statement very carefully. What it said is:

"We will be carrying out engineering work between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge which involves installing steel piles next to the railway to support future masts and electric wires.


The piling will be a seven-month overnight programme initially starting at track in Collyhurst and Miles Platting before moving along to other areas. We are carrying this activity out overnight for safety reasons, as work of this type cannot be done whilst trains are running during the day."

Whether it means full wiring to Stalybridge or just piles for future tophamper, installed while the blockade is on, who knows?

I'll wait until I see a picture posted of masts, cantlevers and SPS stacked in the new compound.

WAO

It sounds like it has been very carefully worded to avoid suggesting a commitment that wires are to be put up. NR will be very careful in that regard to avoid wrong-footing its ultimate paymasters. But one would certainly hope that if they are incurring physical work and cost now (as opposed to just making sure that anything put in place doesn't need ripping out or redoing if electrification is authorised) then there must be a very high likelihood that it will be approved in due course.

 

[InOban]

Presumably it keeps together the squad who did the piling at Church Fenton. Maybe the DfT / Treasury have finally accepted that a continuous program, even if slow, is much more economical than boom and bust.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It must be good news, but I can't help remembering that Didcot-Oxford has had most of its bases installed for over 5 years, but no masts/wires or prospect of any.

 

[adamedwards]

Thanks for that which is what prompted my question. The Network Rail news could be meaning piles going in but not any other works, as it says future masts and wires. It could of course be news that can only be released after the May local elections.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Presumably it keeps together the squad who did the piling at Church Fenton. Maybe the DfT / Treasury have finally accepted that a continuous program, even if slow, is much more economical than boom and bust.

My fondest hope yes. A slow programme is better than no programme.

It must be good news, but I can't help remembering that Didcot-Oxford has had most of its bases installed for over 5 years, but no masts/wires or prospect of any.

sadly this is true also.

Thanks for that which is what prompted my question. The Network Rail news could be meaning piles going in but not any other works, as it says future masts and wires. It could of course be news that can only be released after the May local elections.

I thought if local elections were coming up politicians would be broadcasting it from the rooftops.

 

[hwl]

It is worth remembering that what has been approved (in summer 2020) is effectively the Grayling era partial electrification scheme (with scope well known e.g. West of Stalybridge, Leeds - Huddersfield (after extensive rebuild of this section of route) and Church Fenton - Colton Jn ), hence no surprises that this section is getting piling especially given its general high usage level and operating hours.

 

[SuperNova]

There won't be wires going up this year.

 

[adamedwards]

If no wires to Stalybridge then next year? Very much hope it happens to decongest Victoria of terminating units.

 

[59CosG95]

There won't be wires going up this year.

I guess, if piles are going in east of Miles Platting, it would make sense to get all of them in, the masts installed, the masts dressed with SPS & other dangly bits etc. all the way to Stalybridge before the wires come.
Doing the wires all in one go would also lead to more rapid energisation, and hence less risk of copper theft.

It could also be that different contractors have different parts of the package of works at Miles Platting, and that wiring (as opposed to main steelwork/piling etc) is a different package of works altogether; the scope of which may be under review.

 

[WAO]

...but it is hard to imagine that either NR or DfT would approve spending on a scheme that did not have a self-contained, immediate and quantifiable benefit and outcome. "Making sense" isn't in their dictionary. They must be just shy of telling us.

WAO

 

[Bald Rick]

but it is hard to imagine that either NR or DfT would approve spending on a scheme that did not have a self-contained, immediate and quantifiable benefit and outcome.

They do it all the time.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wires to Stalybridge will also have an impact on the Manchester Recovery Plan options.
You'd expect electric services to run through Victoria to Stalybridge rather than diesel services.
Southport and North Wales services terminating at Stalybridge figure in current options, but you would expect EMUs or 769s after the wires went up.
You'd also expect extended diesel services to terminate at Rochdale or beyond.
Liverpool-Stalybridge was a regular service before Chat Moss wires went up, forcing termination at Victoria.

 

[92002]

Think Network Rail have been letting a contract for mast bases or for that matter signal bases. It will keep some of the OHL staff busy but some real electrification work would be good. Presumably any costs for mast bases installed with the contract will be transferred to a electrification project when its let. In the East Kilbride electrification in Glasgow a similar type of work has started.

 

[Greybeard33]

Wires to Stalybridge will also have an impact on the Manchester Recovery Plan options.
You'd expect electric services to run through Victoria to Stalybridge rather than diesel services.
Southport and North Wales services terminating at Stalybridge figure in current options, but you would expect EMUs or 769s after the wires went up.
You'd also expect extended diesel services to terminate at Rochdale or beyond.
Liverpool-Stalybridge was a regular service before Chat Moss wires went up, forcing termination at Victoria.

I have started a Speculative Ideas thread for further discussion of Stalybridge EMU services:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-northern-emu-or-bi-mode-services-should-use-the-new-ole-from-manchester-victoria-to-stalybridge-when-complete.215177/#post-5040644

 

[Halish Railway]

Just a quick question regarding the ongoing York to Church Fenton scheme; Will the linespeed of the curve immediately south of Church Fenton be raised? Or will this happen in a later scheme (Church Fenton to Micklefield or Neville Hill)?

 

[snowball]

Just a quick question regarding the ongoing York to Church Fenton scheme; Will the linespeed of the curve immediately south of Church Fenton be raised? Or will this happen in a later scheme (Church Fenton to Micklefield or Neville Hill)?

What I know about it comes mostly from this thread, but my impression is that the south end of the current works is north of Church Fenton station.

 

[59CosG95]

Metalwork has now appeared south of the signal gantry for signals CF726 (Up Normanton) and CF724 (Up Leeds); about 3 masts on the UN side have gone up. At a guess, steelwork ends between the gantry and Church Fenton North Jn.

 

[Glenn1969]

I'm sure I read that although the upgrade to the track on Vic- Stalybridge is funded under this tranche of the Upgrade money the wiring isn't and NR has to ask for more money from Sunak before they can fit the wires. But post Covid will that be forthcoming? Also they are saying Spring (hopefully) for the publication of the Integrated Rail Plan on the last newsletter I saw from TfN that mentioned it

 

[hwl]

I'm sure I read that although the upgrade to the track on Vic- Stalybridge is funded under this tranche of the Upgrade money the wiring isn't and NR has to ask for more money from Sunak before they can fit the wires. But post Covid will that be forthcoming? Also they are saying Spring (hopefully) for the publication of the Integrated Rail Plan on the last newsletter I saw from TfN that mentioned it

What has been approved is the Grayling era scheme with partial electrification. Full electrification involves asking for more money from Rishi.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

What has been approved is the Grayling era scheme with partial electrification. Full electrification involves asking for more money from Rishi.

So may I clarify please? The bits getting wires that is --

I assume the wires will be:
1) Man Vic to Stalybridge station (not the tunnels) and not the infills (Ashton Moss N jct, Philips Park jct etc)
2) Huddersfield to Leeds
3) Church Fenton to Colton Jct

Nothing else has been approved to wire. Am I correct or have I even overstated that please?

 

[Glenn1969]

I'm under the impression that the £539m mentioned in the most recent announcement about Stalybridge works does NOT include any wiring. Or is this wrong. Sure Bald Rick will know

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I'm under the impression that the £539m mentioned in the most recent announcement about Stalybridge works does NOT include any wiring. Or is this wrong. Sure Bald Rick will know

Overhead Line Electrification - Huddersfield to Westtown (Dewsbury) (windows.net)

partial quote

We are proposing to electrify the railway between Huddersfield and Westown (Dewsbury) and right through to Leeds

My vision for fully-electrified Transpennine rail will cost more than £2.9bn budget set by Chris Grayling, says Grant Shapps | Yorkshire Post

partial quote

The Cabinet Minister said the benefits of £589m in new funding for the 76-mile route connecting Leeds with Manchester, Huddersfield and York will be felt by passengers before the next scheduled General Election in 2024. The funding announced today will be used to speed up trains and boost reliability on the vital route by electrifying much of the line and doubling the number of tracks from two to four on congested stretches.

Bolding mine - Well these announcements less than 1 year old says wiring will happen.

 

[Glenn1969]

I believe it is NR that are saying the £589m isn't enough for wiring and they are going to have to ask Sunak for more money. But I'm not an insider so those that are will know more than I do

 

[Purple Orange]

I believe it is NR that are saying the £589m isn't enough for wiring and they are going to have to ask Sunak for more money. But I'm not an insider so those that are will know more than I do

That has always been the case. I don’t think there has been a situation where full electrification has been approved and nor has a business case been submitted, but the line is to be electrified with a piecemeal approach. There is a high likelihood that the remaining gap in electrification and TRU will become the NPR line.

 

[Glenn1969]

I mean wiring to Stalybridge. It was mentioned in a TfN newsletter that went out this year. I just can't remember which one

 

[snowball]

I mean wiring to Stalybridge. It was mentioned in a TfN newsletter that went out this year. I just can't remember which one

Looking back in the thread, this seems to come from post #3663, which linked this NCE article, which suggested that there is not enough money to fund even the electrification that has been authorised.

Trans-Pennine route electrification in doubt | New Civil Engineer

The line runs from Manchester to Leeds and to stations either side. Network Rail told Transport Network that the £589M funding will cover “early works”

www.newcivilengineer.com

Additional funding will be needed to enable all of the planned electrification of the trans-Pennine route, despite the hope that £589M of government funding – confirmed in July last year – would “kickstart” work on a significant part of the line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The key is surely when a wiring contract has been let, and apart from the Church Fenton-Colton Jn work in progress I'm not aware of any contract award.
Some of it may be within the scope of generic enabling and frame agreements (possibly complicated by different east/west side NR Regions).
We do know Victoria-Stalybridge was once a phase of the NW project so presumably some design work was done then (work subsequently cut back to Bromley St plus the Great Extension Lead to Heyrod, east of Stalybridge tunnel).
The realignment work being done at Miles Platting may have needed a wiring redesign of that area.
Beyond that, I think we await something positive from NR and whoever wins the wiring contract(s).

 

[Halifaxlad]

That has always been the case. I don’t think there has been a situation where full electrification has been approved and nor has a business case been submitted, but the line is to be electrified with a piecemeal approach. There is a high likelihood that the remaining gap in electrification and TRU will become the NPR line.

I kinda of like this Piecemeal approach, once Ravensthorpe to Huddersfield has been completed and then the remainder wired from Leeds, at least 333s could be used on the stopper between Leeds & Huddersfield.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Piecemeal approach also helps build confidence with HMTreasury.

 

[quantinghome]

It's a production line. Start slowly, get everything working, then pick up the pace. This was the failure on the GW - seeing it is a single big project rather than the beginning of a production process.