FCC Notice of intention to prosecute

[cessna]

I was given asolutely nothing by the inspector. I gave him my driving licence, he took down my details, I signed the form and I was told I had three weeks to pay the penalty fare.

 

[scotsman]

I believe they have the option to prosecute straight away - there was a story some time back about Northern doing this instead of issuing an UFN.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Then it sounds like you were not given a Penalty Fare, it sounds like they took your initial refusal not to pay any money as a reason to report you for prosecution.

 

[cessna]

Maybe they can, but I was never told that they could prosecute straight away.

 

[nedchester]

I was given asolutely nothing by the inspector. I gave him my driving licence, he took down my details, I signed the form and I was told I had three weeks to pay the penalty fare.

So you should contact FCC and tell them that and offer to pay the fare, that should be the end of it.

 

[dan_atki]

I was given asolutely nothing by the inspector. I gave him my driving licence, he took down my details, I signed the form and I was told I had three weeks to pay the penalty fare.

Did he use the phrase 'penalty fare'?

 

[cessna]

Did he use the phrase 'penalty fare'?

Yes he did.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

This might solve the whole thing:

If I have a Standard Class ticket, but sit in First Class, as the train is busy, will I receive a Penalty Fare?
As your ticket is not valid in First Class accommodation you may have to pay a Penalty Fare of £20 or twice the First Class Single fare to the next stop (whichever is the greater), plus a First Class Single from there to your destination. However, depending on the circumstances, you may be liable to prosecution instead. If you wish to travel in First Class, then you must buy a valid First Class ticket or an upgrade before travelling.

The above is from FCC website at:

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=100

 

[cessna]

This might solve the whole thing:

If I have a Standard Class ticket, but sit in First Class, as the train is busy, will I receive a Penalty Fare?
As your ticket is not valid in First Class accommodation you may have to pay a Penalty Fare of £20 or twice the First Class Single fare to the next stop (whichever is the greater), plus a First Class Single from there to your destination. However, depending on the circumstances, you may be liable to prosecution instead. If you wish to travel in First Class, then you must buy a valid First Class ticket or an upgrade before travelling.


The above is from FCC website at:

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=100

Then they shouldn't have given me an option should they?

If you were pulled for speeding and the cop gave you the option of paying a fine or going to court and you opted for a fine, you'd be ****ed off if a week later you get a letter through the door telling you to go to court.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Then they shouldn't have given me an option should they?

If you were pulled for speeding and the cop gave you the option of paying a fine or going to court and you opted for a fine, you'd be ****ed off if a week later you get a letter through the door telling you to go to court.

I'd be quite happy to get off with just a fine bearing in mind I'm only 15.

 

[dan_atki]

plus a First Class Single from there to your destination.

I have to say that's rather dubious. You'd be within your rights to get off the train (or move to Standard) at the next stop.

 

[cessna]

Interesting that on their website it seems to suggest that travelling without any ticket will only get you a penalty fare, not a possible court appearance.
Surely this is a greater offence than sitting in first with a standard ticket??

 

[Mojo]

Interesting that on their website it seems to suggest that travelling without any ticket will only get you a penalty fare, not a possible court appearance.
Surely this is a greater offence than sitting in first with a standard ticket??

No. You can be prosecuted for not having a ticket at all.

 

[cessna]

No. You can be prosecuted for not having a ticket at all.

Ahh ok, sorry I didn't realise, it seemed to suggest just a fine.

 

[MikeWh]

I've just managed to come on here for the first time today and this is the first thread I've read. I have to say that
I am disgusted at the attitude shown by several (most) of the posters on here

Most of you have just skimmed the first post and seen "sat in first class with standard class ticket" and assumed that the OP was asking whether anything could be done about that situation. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves. He has admitted he did wrong, explained he wants to pay the penalty, and is bemused because there appears to be a conflict between what he thought he'd said at the time and what FCC seem to believe he's said. I don't know what the answer is, but I would certainly be on the phone tomorrow (if they are there) or Monday to explain your side of the story. I hope that this is a misunderstanding that can be sorted out and I wish you good luck in doing so.

Reading this thread has made me seriously wonder whether I want to be a part of this forum. Maybe as I'm not railway staff I'm not welcome here.

 

[radamfi]

Just wondering, can a criminal record affect your life?

I am a worrying type, so occasionally I have a nightmare while I am sleeping where I am travelling on a train and realise I have lost my ticket. I then get a criminal record and then kill myself because it ruins my life!

In my (waking) life I have occasionally found myself searching all my bags for my ticket, and almost having a heart attack until I find it, fearing a criminal record if I can't find it.

I know, a bit silly, but just wondering a criminal record really can ruin your life, and therefore making suicide the only option?

 

[nedchester]

I've just managed to come on here for the first time today and this is the first thread I've read. I have to say that
I am disgusted at the attitude shown by several (most) of the posters on here

Most of you have just skimmed the first post and seen "sat in first class with standard class ticket" and assumed that the OP was asking whether anything could be done about that situation. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves. He has admitted he did wrong, explained he wants to pay the penalty, and is bemused because there appears to be a conflict between what he thought he'd said at the time and what FCC seem to believe he's said. I don't know what the answer is, but I would certainly be on the phone tomorrow (if they are there) or Monday to explain your side of the story. I hope that this is a misunderstanding that can be sorted out and I wish you good luck in doing so.

Reading this thread has made me seriously wonder whether I want to be a part of this forum. Maybe as I'm not railway staff I'm not welcome here.

Top post!!! None of those self righteous types have ever made an error they are just so perfect aren't they?!!! Grrr!!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Reading this thread has made me seriously wonder whether I want to be a part of this forum. Maybe as I'm not railway staff I'm not welcome here.

I ain't either. At the end of the day, he sat in First Class accommodation with a Standard ticket, and the prosecution is an action taken by FCC before any fine etc in this case (although this does seem a bit strange). But like I said, if you are goiung to a specific area on a train with an invalid ticket, something is going to happen.

 

[scotsman]

He has admitted he did wrong, explained he wants to pay the penalty, and is bemused because there appears to be a conflict between what he thought he'd said at the time and what FCC seem to believe he's said. .

What 'he did wrong' carries a penalty of a penalty fare, or prosecution, or both. There shouldn't be any confusion about it.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Just wondering, can a criminal record affect your life?

I am a worrying type, so occasionally I have a nightmare while I am sleeping where I am travelling on a train and realise I have lost my ticket. I then get a criminal record and then kill myself because it ruins my life!

In my (waking) life I have occasionally found myself searching all my bags for my ticket, and almost having a heart attack until I find it, fearing a criminal record if I can't find it.

I know, a bit silly, but just wondering a criminal record really can ruin your life, and therefore making suicide the only option?

I hate those mini-heart attacks you get in situations such as that, or when you think '****, where's my wallet/phone etc'. I dont know how it affects employment, are criminal records for life?

 

[Matt Taylor]

Top post!!! None of those self righteous types have ever made an error they are just so perfect aren't they?!!! Grrr!!

But the OP didn't make an error, he made an ill advised choice and is now paying the price.

 

[scotsman]

Just wondering, can a criminal record affect your life?

I am a worrying type, so occasionally I have a nightmare while I am sleeping where I am travelling on a train and realise I have lost my ticket. I then get a criminal record and then kill myself because it ruins my life!

In my (waking) life I have occasionally found myself searching all my bags for my ticket, and almost having a heart attack until I find it, fearing a criminal record if I can't find it.

I know, a bit silly, but just wondering a criminal record really can ruin your life, and therefore making suicide the only option?

My friend, suicide is never the option. Yes, a criminal record can affect job chances - but that's it, and not always even then. I know one person who got jobs in the railways with an 'interesting' record to say the least. I also recall a story from my dad about some guys who ended up all getting done for breach of the peace after one of the was a d*** to a police car. I happen to know that at one of them now holds a very senior position in a UK University. Criminal records, qualifications, etc. are not the be all and end all.

If you ever feel suicide is an option (and it NEVER is) please talk to someone- friend, family, whatever. Or, give these guys a call: 08457 90 90 90

 

[dan_atki]

are criminal records for life?

It depends on the offence committed, I believe, although I'm happy to be corrected on this. Criminal convictions can become 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974(?) and these 'spent' convictions do not normally have to be disclosed on any job application you make.

This is similar to points on your driving licence - after a while they become 'spent' and do not have to be disclosed to insurance companies.

 

[radamfi]

Cheers, Scotsman. Don't need to commit suicide as I haven't got a criminal record (yet! )

Although when you go to America the Visa Waiver form (and now the ESTA online form) says you are not allowed to apply for the Visa Waiver even if you were arrested and not found guilty. Having a criminal record means you have to apply for a Visa if you want to go to America.

 

[90019]

and therefore making suicide the only option?

It's not an option, if you feel it is, you need to find someone to talk to, I've found talking about how you feel and why you feel that way is the best thing you can do and it really helps, try looking here for more help if you ever need it.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It depends on the offence committed, I believe, although I'm happy to be corrected on this. Criminal convictions can become 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974(?) and these 'spent' convictions do not normally have to be disclosed on any job application you make.

This is similar to points on your driving licence - after a while they become 'spent' and do not have to be disclosed to insurance companies.

A bit like infractions on here?

 

[scotsman]

Cheers, Scotsman. Don't need to commit suicide as I haven't got a criminal record (yet! )

Although when you go to America the Visa Waiver form (and now the ESTA online form) says you are not allowed to apply for the Visa Waiver even if you were arrested and not found guilty. Having a criminal record means you have to apply for a Visa if you want to go to America.

Odd, but let me reiterate - there is NEVER a need for suicide.

 

[radamfi]

Going off topic even further (apologies) but I do find it rather strange that even serious motoring offences (ones where lives are potentially being put at risk) are only punished with penalty points and a fine and not a criminal record. You would have thought that would be punished more severely than ticket infringements.

 

[dan_atki]

A bit like infractions on here?

Yes, in a sense exactly like infractions on here. Your profile is your licence and if you breach the rules in a way we deem to be necessary of an infraction you get penalty points added to your licence.

These all normally have an expiry (but in some cases they can be permanent) of between 3 and 6 months. If you have a number of 'active' points then the software triggers an auto-ban in the same way as having too many points on your driving licence.

After these points expire they no longer contribute to the number of active points at any time in the future, but will remain on record for us to see trends of ongoing problems.

 

[scrapy]

Penalty fares are not fines, and are used when no legal basis for prosecuting fare evasion exists, prosecution is deemed too drastic and costly, or is unlikely to result in conviction.

A report will have been submitted by the RPI to the TOC's prosecutions department who will have decided that whether or not a PF was issued there is a legal basis for prosecution and conviction is likely. Prosecution is not too drastic as by his own admission the OP sat in 1st class he knew he was wrong. Had the OP not had his ticket checked on board he would have got away without paying a sum of between about £20 and £40 extra for the first class ticket (depends on original ticket held).

Had the OP gone into a shop and walked out with this value of goods because he didn't think there would be a security guard at that time that would have been theft.

Obviously if the OP thinks he doeesn't deserve a criminal record then he has the option to turn up to court and plead not guilty.