Glenn1969
Established Member
But the Infrastructure Commission are believed to have recommended it be cut back to Toton for the foreseeable future. Sure I read that on here somewhere but no doubt The Planner or Bald Rick will know more than I do
I've heard of Rotherham Central and Rotherham Masborough but where is Rotherham Mainline or Parkgate?
WAO
That's Mainline. Where exactly it would be I don't know. As for Parkgate, the document only mentions it once, in the self-explanatory phraseNew NPR station that TfN want Sunak to fund I think.
Parkgate is the end of the tram-train route which started operating in 2018, a mile and a half north-east of Rotherham Central towards Mexborough.Building on the successful tram train pilot to Rotherham Parkgate
But the Infrastructure Commission are believed to have recommended it be cut back to Toton for the foreseeable future. Sure I read that on here somewhere but no doubt The Planner or Bald Rick will know more than I do
Didn't they also recommend an underground motorway from Manchester to Sheffield? The NIC is a lame duck talking shop which was only set up in the first place to Adonis quiet, and hasn't even managed to do that.But the Infrastructure Commission are believed to have recommended it be cut back to Toton for the foreseeable future. Sure I read that on here somewhere but no doubt The Planner or Bald Rick will know more than I do
Good for the East Mids, rather less so for Yorkshire. Sheffield- Leeds express connectivity is currently a weak link due to capacity issues that would have been solved to a degree by HS2bNot Toton, but just south of East Mids Parkway. Fairly good idea IMO. Enables direct services to Nottingham and Derby, each in around 1h05 / 1h10 I think.
I don't think Sunak personally is relevant here. It went very quiet two or three years ago, well befor he was in post.Think the underground motorway idea came from TfN and was quickly abandoned when they realised Sunak wouldn't fund it
I think that's the main issue really. Freed up capacity between Leeds and Sheffield and keeping voters in Yorkshire sweet are the big prizes. Apart from Derby and Nottingham there isn't really capacity to go anywhere from East Midlands parkway northwards.Good for the East Mids, rather less so for Yorkshire. Sheffield- Leeds express connectivity is currently a weak link due to capacity issues that would have been solved to a degree by HS2b
I know it’s only diagrammatic but the map seems to suggest Bradford to Leeds may use the same alignment as the current line, which fits in with Bradford’s proposal for a new station serving both existing and NPRNew document on the economic case for NPR by TfTN seems to have been slipped out last week. Theres a much better map of the network on the 3rd page than has previously been released.
Northern-Powerhouse-Rail-Connect.pdf (transportforthenorth.com)
The Bradford end is less clear but I think TfN's wish for the Manchester end has been clear for years - a new long tunnel starting near Littleborough, with a widening of the Rochdale line, which is basically well aligned for high speed, unlike the Stalybridge line.The line between Bradford and somewhere east of Manchester is new alignment not serving Halifax, lord knows where they are planning on building it. This is the bit where it becomes a realistic proposition to something that I can’t actually see happening regardless of who the chancellor is. A tunnel from Low Moor to somewhere near Stalybridge maybe?!
I know it’s only diagrammatic but the map seems to suggest Bradford to Leeds may use the same alignment as the current line, which fits in with Bradford’s proposal for a new station serving both existing and NPR
The line between Bradford and somewhere east of Manchester is new alignment not serving Halifax, lord knows where they are planning on building it. This is the bit where it becomes a realistic proposition to something that I can’t actually see happening regardless of who the chancellor is. A tunnel from Low Moor to somewhere near Stalybridge maybe?!
The Bradford end is less clear but I think TfN's wish for the Manchester end has been clear for years - a new long tunnel starting near Littleborough, with a widening of the Rochdale line, which is basically well aligned for high speed, unlike the Stalybridge line.
I would suggest not reading too much into the lines on the map - for example they show the CLC Manchester-Warrington line as going almost via the airport HS2 station when in reality they're nowhere near each other.
Current populations of city authority areas (min pop 300,000) (ONS 2019)
Birmingham 1,141,816
Leeds 793,139
Sheffield 584,853
Manchester 552,858
Bradford 539,776
Liverpool 498,042
Bristol 463,377
Coventry 371,521
Leicester 354,224
Wakefield 348,312
Nottingham: 332,900
Newcastle 302,820
This list does not include any London boroughs but I accept London as the largest City area in UK. It is just divided into 32 borough the largest of which by population are Barnet, Croydon and Newham
i hope a way can be found for HS2,HS3/NPR to benefit most of these areas
Don`t forget Sunak is a Yorkshire MPI think that's the main issue really. Freed up capacity between Leeds and Sheffield and keeping voters in Yorkshire sweet are the big prizes. Apart from Derby and Nottingham there isn't really capacity to go anywhere from East Midlands parkway northwards.
That time is all of 1.5 minutes faster than the TPE Chat Moss schedule before intermediate stops were added.It’s interesting that the Liverpool - Manchester journey time has been quoted at a rather specific 29.5 minutes.
"My city is bigger than your city!"
"My Dad is bigger than your Dad!"
Etc
The Bradford end is less clear but I think TfN's wish for the Manchester end has been clear for years - a new long tunnel starting near Littleborough, with a widening of the Rochdale line, which is basically well aligned for high speed, unlike the Stalybridge line.
The Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway did once consider a continuation of their Rishworth branch line from Sowerby Bridge across the Pennines to the Littleborough area, but made the decision not to proceed with it, but to keep the main line from Sowerby Bridge on the existing line that was constructed by the Manchester and Leeds Railway.I know it’s only diagrammatic but the map seems to suggest Bradford to Leeds may use the same alignment as the current line, which fits in with Bradford’s proposal for a new station serving both existing and NPR
The line between Bradford and somewhere east of Manchester is new alignment not serving Halifax, lord knows where they are planning on building it. This is the bit where it becomes a realistic proposition to something that I can’t actually see happening regardless of who the chancellor is. A tunnel from Low Moor to somewhere near Stalybridge maybe?!
That time is all of 1.5 minutes faster than the TPE Chat Moss schedule before intermediate stops were added.
Depends how much Sunak is willing to fund in the post Covid circumstances. Which is why I said the other day that until we actually see the IRP it's all speculation because we may finish up with the TRU and not much else for another 2 decades. I hope not!
I also think the TfN wish for a 2025 start to construction as mentioned in the document is to say the least optimistic
So 6 tph from Manchester to Leeds, with 4 going to Newcastle and 2 to Hull? I wonder if existing TPE services will be maintained as a classic service to link to Middlesbrough and Scarborough? Or if they'll be handed over to Northern Connect.
Corridor Preferred network options Best current stopping service Best potential stopping service with Northern Powerhouse Rail Frequency Minutes Frequency Minutes Leeds - Newcastle Infrastructure upgrades and use of HS2
(Stops - York, Darlington, Durham)3 81-91 4 72.5 Leeds - Hull Infrastructure upgrades
(Stops - Selby, Brough)1 56-63 2 50 Sheffield - Leeds Infrastructure upgrades and use of HS2
(Stops - Rotherham Main Line/Barnsley Dearne Valley)1 39-42 4 23.5 Sheffield - Hull Infrastructure upgrades
(Stops - Rotherham Main Line/Meadowhall, Doncaster, Selby/Goole, Brough)1 76-84 2 66 Manchester - Sheffield Infrastructure upgrades
(Stops - Stockport/Hope/Dore)2 49-57 4 34.5 Manchester - Leeds New line serving central Bradford
(Stops - Bradford)4 48-61 6 30 Liverpool - Manchester New line via central Warrington
(Stops - Warrington, Manchester Airport)4 35-51 6 29.5
Don`t forget Sunak is a Yorkshire MP
I wonder if that means it could only connect to Piccadilly via a tunnel rather than into the terminal?The Bradford end is less clear but I think TfN's wish for the Manchester end has been clear for years - a new long tunnel starting near Littleborough, with a widening of the Rochdale line, which is basically well aligned for high speed, unlike the Stalybridge line.
But this is dependant on the HS2 Eastern branch going ahead and the mention of 2025 was I believe for Sheffield- Leeds construction which I at age 51 don't see being completed in my lifetime. Sorry for being so pessimistic
I mean the Eastern branch. TfN's map and full network is contingent on it happening
The Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway did once consider a continuation of their Rishworth branch line from Sowerby Bridge across the Pennines to the Littleborough area, but made the decision not to proceed with it, but to keep the main line from Sowerby Bridge on the existing line that was constructed by the Manchester and Leeds Railway.
It’s only 2021. It shouldn’t take 6 years from now to get spades in the ground given it is almost at the stage of passing legislation.I thought Manchester was 2b so no earlier start than 2027? It hasn't started its path through parliament yet