How do you feel about rail staff travel

[zwk500]

Although Network Rail don’t run any passenger services, they do now run various engineering trains.

I thought all engineering/test/maintenance etc were run by FOCs under contract to NR?

 

[Bald Rick]

I thought all engineering/test/maintenance etc were run by FOCs under contract to NR?

No, some are NR.

 

[greyman42]

They are indeed taxable. think it is valued at about £600 per year, when you get to 60, you pay a lump sum to the HMRC and then after that, there is no tax. (if you have not paid, think the P11D tells you, and they find out, you will no doubt get a bill ! )

So just so i am clear, i currently pay tax on my travel concessions (£503 this year) but once i reach 60 i will not pay tax on them?

 

[scrapy]

No they don't. Not even close to being the case. You just have to have been living together for 2 years.

There is no longer a 2 year requirement. You just have to be living together at the same address 'continuously and permanently'. You still have to have a solicitor verify this.

 

[Argyle 1980]

Certainly know there's a fair amount of resentment from non safeguarded staff against individuals who abuse the boxes ect. Certainly know from some railway staff I know that they are not very sympathetic especially towards non railway issued priv card holders who magic pencil their boxes ect.

 

[bramling]

Certainly know there's a fair amount of resentment from non safeguarded staff against individuals who abuse the boxes ect. Certainly know from some railway staff I know that they are not very sympathetic especially towards non railway issued priv card holders who magic pencil their boxes ect.

I always find such attitudes a bit mean-spirited. Yes the staff travel benefits are a nice thing, but it must always be borne in mind that BR wages were much lower than today. What today’s staff don’t get in travel benefits they certainly get in pay, especially on-train staff.

I’d say people like NR staff have more of a valid reason to feel aggrieved, TBH.

 

[matt_world2004]

I believe all operational staff who work in multiple locations should get free duty related from their main place of work to their secondary place of work or from home if they do not have a reporting point.(Including network rail staff) Its needlessly bureaucratic to get rail industry employees to apply for rail warrants or to carry around duty statements so they can get free duty related travel on other TOCs services.

If there is a fear that this could be abused , it should be through means of a smart card ticket whose journey history can be audited by line managers.

Something similar is issues to cubic staff (called an oyster engineers pass) for maintenance of oyster cards in the oyster card area. It allows free duty related travel only on all TOCs/TfL services in London , for maintenance of the oyster network.

 

[Mag_seven]

I’d say people like NR staff have more of a valid reason to feel aggrieved, TBH.

That was certainly the case amongst the "have nots" when I worked in NR. The argument would always be that "well you knew that when you joined" but what they didn't know "when they joined" was that the person that they would end up working beside did get travel facilities purely because they happened to be ex BR or joined before April 1996.

 

[bramling]

That was certainly the case amongst the "have nots" when I worked in NR. The argument would always be that "well you knew that when you joined" but what they didn't know "when they joined" was that the person that they would end up working beside did get travel facilities purely because they happened to be ex BR or joined before April 1996.

Yes I don’t think it’s good for cohesion, and hardly contributes to good relations between staff.

 

[Argyle 1980]

I always find such attitudes a bit mean-spirited. Yes the staff travel benefits are a nice thing, but it must always be borne in mind that BR wages were much lower than today. What today’s staff don’t get in travel benefits they certainly get in pay, especially on-train staff.

I’d say people like NR staff have more of a valid reason to feel aggrieved, TBH.

Generally I don't think there's too much hostility between non safeguarded and safeguarded railway staff. It's more hostility towards non railway issued boxes that causes a stir.
I use to have a P&O ferries priv with boxes courtesy of my ex partner, although I never penciled/glued/altered it myself, I didn't know too many who didn't.
I know people who only had two boxes under P&O and they'd pretty much last them indefinitely by magic pencilling/glueing them ect or even going to channel house and making a false declaration that it had been stolen and that no boxes had been used, and issued a replacement. I'd even heard of instances of people renting their passes out for the weekend.

Because of this, it's not hard to see why there was hostility.

 

[LAX54]

So just so i am clear, i currently pay tax on my travel concessions (£503 this year) but once i reach 60 i will not pay tax on them?

Pretty sure it was 60, Large 'lump sum' to HMRC in the last year, certainly earlier than 65 !

That was certainly the case amongst the "have nots" when I worked in NR. The argument would always be that "well you knew that when you joined" but what they didn't know "when they joined" was that the person that they would end up working beside did get travel facilities purely because they happened to be ex BR or joined before April 1996.

It was always stated at the time, by the Unions, that the increase in wages made up for the lack of travel facilities, they cited it was not a 'loss' as staff who did not get it, never did have it.

 

[6Gman]

The current system is extraordinarily generous and far more than most other workers have access to. Train crew are very well paid for a job that requires no formal qualifications, in an industry currently being propped up by the taxpayer. Compare this to nurses (for example), who have to pay for their training and have a lower starting salary, and those complaining about having to pay 25% of their travel cost look incredibly greedy! Any benefit/discount is a perk and better than nothing.

Has anyone on here complained?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

In 38 years of railway employment I never paid any tax on my travel concessions. I am now retired (and over 60) and still don't pay any tax.
I have been in contact with 7 of my contemporaries and so far 5 have replied and confirmed that they also have never been taxed on their free passes.
I would be interested to know where your information has come from and whether I need to keep my head down.

 

[zwk500]

I always find such attitudes a bit mean-spirited. Yes the staff travel benefits are a nice thing, but it must always be borne in mind that BR wages were much lower than today. What today’s staff don’t get in travel benefits they certainly get in pay, especially on-train staff.

I've not come across much resentment among non-safeguarded staff for those that have it, but I'd find resentment of those that abused it completely justified, as it'd be another reason to block further rollout.

I’d say people like NR staff have more of a valid reason to feel aggrieved, TBH.

For most people I know it's not that big a deal, given how often they use the train. Even if the amount is quite small, they'd rather have the money directly in the pocket because £1 taxed is still more to them than a benefit worth £1 that isn't used.

As mentioned before, if there was a railcard for non-safeguarded staff offering something like 33-50% off for £5/month (£60/yr) I'd be all for it. Those that want it can pay for it, those that don't aren't out of pocket. I also think a 'take a friend' railcard would be something worth considering for staff, to generally encourage more rail use. But that may be harder to get the numbers to add up

 

[Haywain]

I always find such attitudes a bit mean-spirited.

You think hostility towards people abusing very generous free travel is mean-spirited? I’m curious as to what reaction you would expect.

 

[6Gman]

You think hostility towards people abusing very generous free travel is mean-spirited? I’m curious as to what reaction you would expect.

Hostility toward abuse is entirely appropriate. Hostility toward correct use is not (and, to emphasise. I'm not accusing you of that).

 

[Bald Rick]

I always find such attitudes a bit mean-spirited. Yes the staff travel benefits are a nice thing, but it must always be borne in mind that BR wages were much lower than today. What today’s staff don’t get in travel benefits they certainly get in pay, especially on-train staff.

I’d say people like NR staff have more of a valid reason to feel aggrieved, TBH.

@Argyle 1980 was referring to people who use their travel facilities in a fraudulent manner.

That was certainly the case amongst the "have nots" when I worked in NR. The argument would always be that "well you knew that when you joined" but what they didn't know "when they joined" was that the person that they would end up working beside did get travel facilities purely because they happened to be ex BR or joined before April 1996.

Thing is, there’s really not many people left in NR with travel facilities. It’s been a quarter of a century since NR (and predecessors) was able to grant them to new entrants. As long ago as 2004 only a third of the company had them. I’d be surprised if it was more than 10% now. I know a number of people who have given them up, in preference of other allowances.

In 38 years of railway employment I never paid any tax on my travel concessions. I am now retired (and over 60) and still don't pay any tax.
I have been in contact with 7 of my contemporaries and so far 5 have replied and confirmed that they also have never been taxed on their free passes.
I would be interested to know where your information has come from and whether I need to keep my head down.

Have a look upthread. If you worked for a TOC, you’ve almost certainly no tax liabilities. If you worked for NR, or another part of the former BR that did not provide train services, you probably do.

 

[Annetts key]

In 38 years of railway employment I never paid any tax on my travel concessions. I am now retired (and over 60) and still don't pay any tax.
I have been in contact with 7 of my contemporaries and so far 5 have replied and confirmed that they also have never been taxed on their free passes.
I would be interested to know where your information has come from and whether I need to keep my head down.

Read the reply from Bald Rick above first.
Then look back through your P60s or P60 substitutes. If you were paying tax on your BR travel facilities, it will be listed as a benefit in kind. This is treated as untaxed income, and hence your personal tax code will be adjusted down so that over the following year the appropriate amount of tax will automatically be collected under the PAYE system that most employees are subject to. You may also have received various notices of change of personal tax code, as the amount is adjusted in reaction to changes in the amount that your employer pays to the RDG (or ATOC).

 

[Egg Centric]

Does anyone know if there any kind of formal criteria as to which companies are permitted to pay the RDG for their staff to have these benefits? Does the company have to be rail related? If the tax on them is £500-odd then it sounds like they would only cost roughly a grand each.

(My cunning plan may be quite transparent)

 

[LowLevel]

Certainly know there's a fair amount of resentment from non safeguarded staff against individuals who abuse the boxes ect. Certainly know from some railway staff I know that they are not very sympathetic especially towards non railway issued priv card holders who magic pencil their boxes ect.

I have no hostility at all towards anyone with boxes and if I choose not to spend time looking at whether they've filled in a box or not that's on me. Once you get into people fiddling them and presenting them to me that's a different ball game.

 

[Ianno87]

I’d say people like NR staff have more of a valid reason to feel aggrieved, TBH.

NR staff do get a subsidy on travel-to-work season tickets of 75% (up to a maximum subsidy of about £2.5k or so), which does make a big difference on affordability of daily commuting.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone know if there any kind of formal criteria as to which companies are permitted to pay the RDG for their staff to have these benefits? Does the company have to be rail related? If the tax on them is £500-odd then it sounds like they would only cost roughly a grand each.

(My cunning plan may be quite transparent)

There is, and there are certain ‘grandfather rights’.

The benefit in kind is actually around £1650 a year, for those companies that have to pay RDG. I happen to know that in the not recent past enquiries were made about how much it would cost to buy similar levels of travel facilities for those that didn’t have grandfather rights. Back then the answer was over £5k a year, it would be around double that now.

 

[Llanigraham]

That was certainly the case amongst the "have nots" when I worked in NR. The argument would always be that "well you knew that when you joined" but what they didn't know "when they joined" was that the person that they would end up working beside did get travel facilities purely because they happened to be ex BR or joined before April 1996.

The standard responsde on the internal forum when it was often raised was "get some years in" from those that did have "free travel", which was a meaningless comment.

I didn't have it but often found it difficult to pay for a ticket on my local line if only going to Shrewsbury, because lots of the staff knew me and where I worked.

 

[Llanigraham]

NR staff do get a subsidy on travel-to-work season tickets of 75% (up to a maximum subsidy of about £2.5k or so), which does make a big difference on affordability of daily commuting.

But for a lot of signallers they cannot use a train to get to work, either because of geography or timetables.

 

[Watershed]

But for a lot of signallers they cannot use a train to get to work, either because of geography or timetables.

Yes, and even a fair proportion of the newer signalling centres and ROCs are located quite poorly for arriving by train, despite often being on or near the line.

E.g. the West Midlands Signalling Centre is directly adjacent to the expanse of tracks surrounding Lawley Street Terminal, but the nearest station is the relatively minor Duddeston, which not all trains even call at.

 

[Ianno87]

But for a lot of signallers they cannot use a train to get to work, either because of geography or timetables.

Applies to some office staff too.

 

[Highlandspring]

I believe all operational staff who work in multiple locations should get free duty related from their main place of work to their secondary place of work or from home if they do not have a reporting point.(Including network rail staff) Its needlessly bureaucratic to get rail industry employees to apply for rail warrants or to carry around duty statements so they can get free duty related travel on other TOCs services.

NR gave up on rail warrants a few years ago and uses Capita to buy tickets now, including for duty travel. There are a limited number duty passes for some TOCs in existence within NR but try getting hold of one when you need it....

 

[matt_world2004]

NR gave up on rail warrants a few years ago and uses Capita to buy tickets now, including for duty travel. There are a limited number duty passes for some TOCs in existence within NR but try getting hold of one when you need it....

This doesn't seem very efficient imho much better uring the br days where if a rail industry employee needed to travel for work purposes they could in effect hop on the train with appropriate identification and explain why they were travelling to guards/ticket checkers

While this may informally happen sometimes now. There should be a formal process to allow it to happen . To protect both the staff member travelling and the staff member doing ticket checks.

Too often staff travel is viewed as an employee perk. When it needs to also be looked at in the context of mutual assistance between railway operators. In ensuring a efficient and smoothe transport network

 

[BluePenguin]

Generally I don't think there's too much hostility between non safeguarded and safeguarded railway staff. It's more hostility towards non railway issued boxes that causes a stir.
I use to have a P&O ferries priv with boxes courtesy of my ex partner, although I never penciled/glued/altered it myself, I didn't know too many who didn't.
I know people who only had two boxes under P&O and they'd pretty much last them indefinitely by magic pencilling/glueing them ect or even going to channel house and making a false declaration that it had been stolen and that no boxes had been used, and issued a replacement. I'd even heard of instances of people renting their passes out for the weekend.

Because of this, it's not hard to see why there was hostility.

As someone who has several friends who work for P&O, I can confirm this is true.

 

[robbeech]

But for a lot of signallers they cannot use a train to get to work, either because of geography or timetables.

Indeed many jobs i've seen have specified that you must drive (or be able to get there without public transport), even if the job is to a box at a station. I suppose its to cover potential issues during disruption.