How do you feel about rail staff travel

[ABB125]

NR gave up on rail warrants a few years ago and uses Capita to buy tickets now, including for duty travel. There are a limited number duty passes for some TOCs in existence within NR but try getting hold of one when you need it....

Why does Network Rail need a third party contractor to buy tickets on their behalf? That seems incredibly inefficient and wasteful.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why does Network Rail need a third party contractor to buy tickets on their behalf? That seems incredibly inefficient and wasteful.

Most big companies do the same. It’s cheaper.

 

[ABB125]

Most big companies do the same. It’s cheaper.

How is paying another company (including, presumably, a service fee) to buy tickets for you cheaper than simply buying them yourself? Is there something obvious that I'm missing here?

 

[T-Karmel]

How is paying another company (including, presumably, a service fee) to buy tickets for you cheaper than simply buying them yourself? Is there something obvious that I'm missing here?

My guess is that outsourcing buying these tickets is cheaper because that 3rd party company serves some number of firms (not only railway ones). Whilst otherwise NR would need an extra department just for the purpose of buying tickets for NR employees only.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, and even a fair proportion of the newer signalling centres and ROCs are located quite poorly for arriving by train, despite often being on or near the line.

E.g. the West Midlands Signalling Centre is directly adjacent to the expanse of tracks surrounding Lawley Street Terminal, but the nearest station is the relatively minor Duddeston, which not all trains even call at.

This is an issue in itself - obviously many are well connected but you'd have thought the railway would have considered public transport availability to work before building ROCs etc. Good regional interchanges are best. Of course there's other elements like planning permission but it can have an impact on availability of staff although many will just drive.

 

[ABB125]

My guess is that outsourcing buying these tickets is cheaper because that 3rd party company serves some number of firms (not only railway ones). Whilst otherwise NR would need an extra department just for the purpose of buying tickets for NR employees only.

Maybe, but could the individual employees not just buy the ticket themselves and then put in a claim with the expenses team (I'm assuming Network Rail has one (perhaps also outsourced! ))?

 

[Bald Rick]

How is paying another company (including, presumably, a service fee) to buy tickets for you cheaper than simply buying them yourself? Is there something obvious that I'm missing here?

Because the retailers’ commission (typically 7%) is reduced through bulk buy. Even a couple of % makes a worthwhile saving when you are spending millions on travel. It also helps to keep a track on what travel is being paid for, rather than if it all goes through expenses.

Maybe, but could the individual employees not just buy the ticket themselves and then put in a claim with the expenses team (I'm assuming Network Rail has one (perhaps also outsourced! ))?

Expenses is largely automated. There is a small internal team that manages the process.

 

[ABB125]

Because the retailers’ commission (typically 7%) is reduced through bulk buy. Even a couple of % makes a worthwhile saving when you are spending millions on travel. It also helps to keep a track on what travel is being paid for, rather than if it all goes through expenses.





Expenses is largely automated. There is a small internal team that manages the process.

Thanks - I'll take your word for it!

 

[35B]

Thanks - I'll take your word for it!

It's worth adding that for a large company, routing all travel bookings through an agent makes enforcing corporate travel policies much easier, allows a centralised view of expenditure, and reduces the employee time lost sorting out travel.

 

[Watershed]

Because the retailers’ commission (typically 7%) is reduced through bulk buy. Even a couple of % makes a worthwhile saving when you are spending millions on travel. It also helps to keep a track on what travel is being paid for, rather than if it all goes through expenses.





Expenses is largely automated. There is a small internal team that manages the process.

It's painfully obvious how much time and money is wasted because, at some point, someone decided it would be a good idea to force Network Rail to pay money for its own staff to travel on trains that run on their own network...

 

[Journeyman]

It's painfully obvious how much time and money is wasted because, at some point, someone decided it would be a good idea to force Network Rail to pay money for its own staff to travel on trains that run on their own network...

I think you'll find the amounts of money involved here are astonishingly trivial in the grand scheme of things, and per staff member I suspect it costs a lot less than it would to provide protected travel facilities.

 

[bb21]

It's painfully obvious how much time and money is wasted because, at some point, someone decided it would be a good idea to force Network Rail to pay money for its own staff to travel on trains that run on their own network...

It is not just Network Rail.

Unless using a duty travel pass (let me know if you ever manage to hunt one down), a reciprocal travel pass/arrangement (within parent group usually but local agreements exist) or a season ticket (usually employee's own purchased for residential travel), duty travel must be paid for at public rates not priv rates for TOC employees. I don't think even the latter is strictly allowed but impossible to enforce.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It is not just Network Rail.

Unless using a duty travel pass (let me know if you ever manage to hunt one down), a reciprocal travel pass/arrangement (within parent group usually but local agreements exist) or a season ticket (usually employee's own purchased for residential travel), duty travel must be paid for at public rates not priv rates for TOC employees. I don't think even the latter is strictly allowed but impossible to enforce.

I've got two duty passes for Northern here on the desk , last day before the first Work from home order was a trip to Hull.They have expired now though.

 

[ABB125]

It is not just Network Rail.

Unless using a duty travel pass (let me know if you ever manage to hunt one down), a reciprocal travel pass/arrangement (within parent group usually but local agreements exist) or a season ticket (usually employee's own purchased for residential travel), duty travel must be paid for at public rates not priv rates for TOC employees. I don't think even the latter is strictly allowed but impossible to enforce.

I was given a duty travel pass by GWR when I did a week's work experience with them in 2019. Which was nice!
However I don't know how common it is for things like this to happen.

 

[Haywain]

I think you'll find the amounts of money involved here are astonishingly trivial in the grand scheme of things, and per staff member I suspect it costs a lot less than it would to provide protected travel facilities.

Travel facilities which are, in any event, provided for leisure use and therefore make no difference to travel for business purposes.

 

[c1995]

Being a new starter on the railway (6 months in), I am very pleased with the benefits.

Free travel on my family of brands, TfL LU+NR 75% off Oyster and 75% off leisure card. Got the international discount to look forward to too.

I do wish the leisure card included residential travel, though. My local station is not under my company's family of brands and I've done the maths - due to me working 12 hour shifts and only working 14 days a month buying a priv season from my local station is significantly more expensive than driving 25 minutes and parking / commuting from the closest station to me under my family of brands. Albeit luckily and another brilliant perk the parking is free for me. But that extra 50 minutes of driving on top of the train commute and 12 hours does take it out of me.

 

[WarJan]

Is there any update for ITSO cards being issued for rail staff .
This isn't this year as they send out paper cards but what about next year , does anyone know , it would make leisure travel for staff so much easier due to ticket office queues and many being closed at weekends

 

[greyman42]

What is a ITSO card?

 

[jumble]

It's painfully obvious how much time and money is wasted because, at some point, someone decided it would be a good idea to force Network Rail to pay money for its own staff to travel on trains that run on their own network...

Nothing new here
In around 1985 I worked for the firm that installed track to train radios for Kings cross to Peterborough when it went OMO
We were in West London and had to go to York for meetings with BR
We were on a cost plus contract
We used to buy our tickets and then invoice BR with our margin on top
I often wondered why BR did not supply warrants although of course we were very happy with the arrangement

 

[WarJan]

What is a ITSO card?

Hey,
ITSO is the technology behind today's smart cards
oyster cards, TOC smart cards are all powered by ITSO technology.
Trying to think of a few more
There was however a brief that said staff facilities will eventually come to ITSO this year but perhaps this was delayed due TO C19

 

[peters]

Everyone, regardless of seniority, boil in the bags, newbies, 50 year men who started as coal slingers on footplates, "I worked for BR for 6 weeks in the nineties", post 1996 TOCNE, no matter who .... ALL should get the same travel benefits, and ALL should get the same retirement travel benefits.. either all or nothing.

The current differential should be challenged in court and have it declared unlawful.

As for someone's analogy about Marks and Spencer giving away free food, I seriously doubt that any firm in the stingey retail sector would even give away a carrier bag, let alone any contents to go in it.

With regards to staff benefits in general there are two types:
1. Those written into your employment contract.
2. Any other benefits.

The first have to be honoured unless the employee agrees to a revised contract and even if your employment contract is transferred to another employer through the TUPE arrangement. Others are optional. As an example, in an employment contract for my previous employer it mentioned having access to an Employee Assistance Programme so the employer could not remove that service unless I signed a new contract. On the other hand in my previous employment it was commonplace for people to travel both domestically and internationally for work related purposes so the business decided to buy annual worldwide travel insurance for all employees and told us that policy covered our own holidays as well. When the COVID pandemic hit the business announced that because there would be no staff travelling for the forseeable future that they would not renew the staff travel insurance policies. As it wasn't written into our contracts they were allowed to do that, even though it was annoying for those of us who had foreign holidays booked.

There is no law stating that all employees must have the same contract and even outside rail it's common for someone who has transferred from another employer to have a different contract. If you think you have inferior terms to a colleague you can negotiate with your employer or get a union to do it on your behalf but they don't have to agree to a change unless it falls foul of the Equalities Act.

As the railways have been privatised it doesn't make sense for new employees to be offered discounts or freebies for travel on other operator's services, unless those other operators have the same parent company.

 

[35B]

With regards to staff benefits in general there are two types:
1. Those written into your employment contract.
2. Any other benefits.

The first have to be honoured unless the employee agrees to a revised contract and even if your employment contract is transferred to another employer through the TUPE arrangement. Others are optional. As an example, in an employment contract for my previous employer it mentioned having access to an Employee Assistance Programme so the employer could not remove that service unless I signed a new contract. On the other hand in my previous employment it was commonplace for people to travel both domestically and internationally for work related purposes so the business decided to buy annual worldwide travel insurance for all employees and told us that policy covered our own holidays as well. When the COVID pandemic hit the business announced that because there would be no staff travelling for the forseeable future that they would not renew the staff travel insurance policies. As it wasn't written into our contracts they were allowed to do that, even though it was annoying for those of us who had foreign holidays booked.

There is no law stating that all employees must have the same contract and even outside rail it's common for someone who has transferred from another employer to have a different contract. If you think you have inferior terms to a colleague you can negotiate with your employer or get a union to do it on your behalf but they don't have to agree to a change unless it falls foul of the Equalities Act.

As the railways have been privatised it doesn't make sense for new employees to be offered discounts or freebies for travel on other operator's services, unless those other operators have the same parent company.

The position under TUPE is not quite as you state - the receiving employer may (for example if they aren’t subscribed to an EAP provider) choose to provide an equivalent provision for the transferring employee. From personal experience, this is an area in which the small print really matters and “equivalence” may not mean what the employee would wish.

In my case, there were a number of benefits that the transferring employer did not provide and equivalence, had I transferred, would have been achieved by increasing my salary by the amount they cost my employer. That left an obvious gap...

 

[Journeyman]

Hey,
ITSO is the technology behind today's smart cards
oyster cards, TOC smart cards are all powered by ITSO technology.
Trying to think of a few more
There was however a brief that said staff facilities will eventually come to ITSO this year but perhaps this was delayed due TO C19

Oyster cards are, as far as I know, not ITSO compliant.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Oyster cards are, as far as I know, not ITSO compliant.

Oyster aren't ITSO for sure

 

[Journeyman]

Oyster aren't ITSO for sure

It was a big problem a few years ago. Apparently Oyster readers will now read ITSO cards, but the two systems are very different.

 

[davetheguard]

I've not got one myself yet, but I've heard that the county council issued bus passes are ITSO compliant.

Is there any update for ITSO cards being issued for rail staff .

How would that work? Would it have stored value like an Oyster card and you'd tap in or out; or would you insert it in the card slot on a ticket vending machine to obtain a priv rate ticket?

 

[Haywain]

I've not got one myself yet, but I've heard that the county council issued bus passes are ITSO compliant.

They are ITSO cards.

How would that work? Would it have stored value like an Oyster card and you'd tap in or out; or would you insert it in the card slot on a ticket vending machine to obtain a priv rate ticket?

There wouldn't be any benefit that I can see. It's already possible to issue a Priv season to smartcard, I believe, but for anything else it still just a ticket. What staff need is a means of buying a ticket without having to go to a ticket office and an ITSO card isn't the answer to that.

 

[Wallsendmag]

They are ITSO cards.

There wouldn't be any benefit that I can see. It's already possible to issue a Priv season to smartcard, I believe, but for anything else it still just a ticket. What staff need is a means of buying a ticket without having to go to a ticket office and an ITSO card isn't the answer to that.

Although you never know what's just around the corner.

 

[Annetts key]

It's already possible to issue a Priv season to smartcard, I believe, but for anything else it still just a ticket. What staff need is a means of buying a ticket without having to go to a ticket office and an ITSO card isn't the answer to that.

I have a Priv season ticket on a plastic ‘smartcard’, it’s a lot more convenient compared to a cardboard ticket. When I get mine (an annual 365 day ticket) it’s actually issued as a cardboard version, then after asking me, it’s then put on my plastic ‘smartcard’.

But I don’t see how the free travel ticket (with the up to 20 or whatever boxes) can be done electronically.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I have a Priv season ticket on a plastic ‘smartcard’, it’s a lot more convenient compared to a cardboard ticket. When I get mine (an annual 365 day ticket) it’s actually issued as a cardboard version, then after asking me, it’s then put on my plastic ‘smartcard’.

But I don’t see how the free travel ticket (with the up to 20 or whatever boxes) can be done electronically.

Fairly simple really to be honest 20 products loaded onto a card each one last for up to two days. They are activated each time you tap in or you use a TOC/NR app.