IET's grounded - what would you run?

[Wolfie]

Don’t see the point, they’re very nastily not even letting LNER ticket holders go to Edinburgh or Glasgow with them, only to Manchester for an awkward connection onto TPE, and even then it’s flexible ticket holders only. Advances have to buy a new ticket. I think it’s disgraceful.

Isn't that something that LNER would have to request?

 

[A0]

And what exactly do you think I was suggesting? As I never said what I would like to be done. And whatever my own personal thoughts on what may look like a sensible system, technology moves on and I would not want improvements in technology to be restricted by overly restrictive standards and regulations. So there will never be full interoperability for everything. Same as there will never be completely homogenised train fleets across the country.

So if I go out and look at the railway vehicles that travel through BTM, I won’t see any cascaded railway vehicles then? I think not.

And no one has a crystal ball that can accurately tell us what will happen tens of years into the future. Would it be financially okay then to scrap nearly new railway vehicles if say a future government had very different ideas about our railways?

The bit I was challenging was your statement which I put in bold, specifically: "But alas, most financial decisions are made with far more attention given to the shorter term."

Mainly because neither the facts, nor most normal accounting / financial standards support that theory.

It depends what you mean by "nearly new" I guess - in the context of Railforums, "nearly new" seems to include HSTs (45 years old), Class 91s (30 years old), class 321s (33 years old).......

 

[Wolfie]

365s back in on Great Northern to release 387s to GWR seems an obvious one.

Serious question: are there many/any differences between the 387s at GN and those at GW? Can they operate together? I've seen enough about other rolling stock on here to know that it isn't a given.

 

[HSTEd]

Mainly because neither the facts, nor most normal accounting / financial standards support that theory.

Well that is dependent entirely on your perspective.

I could certainly argue that many infrastructural decisions are made based on a financial basis using parameters which ultimately do not reflect the reality of a thousand year old state with access to almost free borrowing.

 

[JN114]

Serious question: are there many/any differences between the 387s at GN and those at GW? Can they operate together? I've seen enough about other rolling stock on here to know that it isn't a given.

Probably on different software versions, so not out-the-box compatible - but there are enough all-day 8 or all-day 12 car diagrams where such that they wouldn’t have to mix and match with the Green fleet.

It wouldn’t be outwith the realms of possibility for GN sets to work on the GW in a standalone basis.

 

[Wolfie]

Why shouldn't it. The railway is there to run trains, not pander to health and safety fanatics.

This is a serious emergency for the railway, and the key priority should be to ensure that the service is run.

Tell that to the coroner and judges should anyone get killed.... You would get a very dry and dusty reception...

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At the cost of H&S? Health and safety is there for a reason whether you like it or not.

Absolutely.

 

[Essexman]

Could the sleeper seated coaches do a run from Penzance to Exeter and back during the day time like they did on summer Saturdays a few years ago? Maybe in the path of one of the lost London trains, or maybe free up a Castle set to be extended to Bristol.

 

[RobShipway]

Could the sleeper seated coaches do a run from Penzance to Exeter and back during the day time like they did on summer Saturdays a few years ago? Maybe in the path of one of the lost London trains, or maybe free up a Castle set to be extended to Bristol.

From a comment that was made by the Depot manager at Reading in thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...he-grounding-of-class-80x-fleet.217232/page-4, the sleepers are operating as normal.

There has been HST trailers belonging to LSL taken to Laira from Crewe and GWR do have at least two spare class 43's, so let's see what happens.

 

[Essexman]

From a comment that was made by the Depot manager at Reading in thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...he-grounding-of-class-80x-fleet.217232/page-4, the sleepers are operating as normal.

There has been HST trailers belonging to LSL taken to Laira from Crewe and GWR do have at least two spare class 43's, so let's see what happens.

I know the sleepers are operating as normal. I'm on it tonight. But I wondered if the loco and coaches could be used for a daytime run from Penzance to Exeter and back as they did on summer Saturdays a few years ago.

 

[Purple Orange]

What would I run? Pacers. Let people feel what real discomfort feels like on a train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know the sleepers are operating as normal. I'm on it tonight. But I wondered if the loco and coaches could be used for a daytime run from Penzance to Exeter and back as they did on summer Saturdays a few years ago.

Slamdoors are the sticking point, but if the DfT tells them to I'm sure they will.

 

[yorksrob]

Tell that to the coroner and judges should anyone get killed.... You would get a very dry and dusty reception...

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Absolutely.

We're not putting them in 1830's open topped wagons, these are trains that are in use today (with certain precautions).

 

[Failed Unit]

Tell that to the coroner and judges should anyone get killed.... You would get a very dry and dusty reception...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2021 ==


Absolutely.

But if the same people die on the roads because they can’t travel by train - that is ok.

 

[Energy]

Are the GC MK4 sets still around in storage or any other IC225 sets? London to Cardiff is now fully electrified so the sets could work as cover if they are route cleared and have staff trained.

 

[43096]

Are the GC MK4 sets still around in storage or any other IC225 sets? London to Cardiff is now fully electrified so the sets could work as cover if they are route cleared and have staff trained.

The ex-GC Mark 4 sets are now owned by TfW. Given they are stored currently, perhaps they would consider a hire?

There's also the under-utilised Chiltern Mark 3 sets.

 

[PTR 444]

Given that this issue is now expected to last for weeks if not months, may I suggest that SWR start running 6-car 159s on WofE Exeter services, splitting at Salisbury with the rear portion continuing to Bristol every hour?

 

[hexagon789]

I've heard a few rumours -

GWR to get TPE 802s, TPE to cut Liverpool-Newcastle back to York

GWR to get 12 c2c 387s

Riviera Trains to provide 2 Mk2f rakes, from Friday - traction unconfirmed


Any of these rumours true?

 

[greatvoyager]

I've heard a few rumours -

GWR to get TPE 802s, TPE to cut Liverpool-Newcastle back to York

GWR to get 12 c2c 387s

Riviera Trains to provide 2 Mk2f rakes, from Friday - traction unconfirmed


Any of these rumours true?

Aren’t there only 6 total 387s with c2c?

 

[Wolfie]

Aren’t there only 6 total 387s with c2c?

Yes.

 

[hexagon789]

Aren’t there only 6 total 387s with c2c?

No idea, 12 was the number I saw with one unit to stay behind for competency purposes

 

[Bletchleyite]

No idea, 12 was the number I saw with one unit to stay behind for competency purposes

"a 12 car set" perhaps, which I think they're getting today?

 

[hexagon789]

"a 12 car set" perhaps, which I think they're getting today?

That would make more sense, as I have checked and c2c do indeed only have six units. The exact wording was '12 - 387s' possibly they accidentally omitted "cars" after the hyphen!

Presumably a 'capacity buster' for Padd-Swindon shuttles

 

[greatvoyager]

That would make more sense, as I have checked and c2c do indeed only have six units. The exact wording was '12 - 387s' possibly they accidentally omitted "cars" after the hyphen!

Presumably a 'capacity buster' for Padd-Swindon shuttles

That sounds more like it.

 

[hexagon789]

That sounds more like it.

I'm not familiar with c2c so no 'alarm bells' rang at 12 to think 'cars' rather than 'units'

 

[DJ_K666]

Tell that to the coroner and judges should anyone get killed.... You would get a very dry and dusty reception...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 May 2021 ==


Absolutely.

Most of the judges and coroners are half dead old fossils themselves so that's partly true at least

 

[greatvoyager]

I'm not familiar with c2c so no 'alarm bells' rang at 12 to think 'cars' rather than 'units'

Ah okay no worries. I didn’t mean to come across as patronising and apologise if I did.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

What about the preserved Hastings diesel?

 

[yorksrob]

What about the preserved Hastings diesel?

I already suggested it

The thumper can go anywhere - if they put it on the ECML I'd cough up for a walk on ticket

Go on - you know it makes sense !

 

[Paul Jones 88]

I already suggested it

Excellent, great minds think alike.

 

[Parallel]

I don’t work for the railway and the professionals will know what they’re doing but this is what I’d propose:

Worcester Foregate Street/Shrub Hill to Reading formed of a 166. Possibly the 06:53 from Worcester to start back from Hereford if possible, with one of the last trains of the day running there as there’s not a great deal of services around these times and so staff don’t lose competency if this is going to be long term. Passengers can board WMR and change for the rest of the day.

London Paddington to Swindon formed of Class 387s, with the aim of them being extended to Cardiff in the longer term, subject to staff training and clearance.

Swindon to Bristol to be operated with whatever’s available; whether that’s 80x, Turbos, Class 158s, HST GTis. There used to be a Turbo service that ran Gloucester to Swindon via Bristol until recently so at least some depots should sign both the route and the stock.

Swindon to Gloucester to be formed of a 16x or a 158, whichever is available.

London Paddington to Swansea to operate as a class 80x between Swindon and Newport or Cardiff only due to a shortage of units. 158s/16x could also cover if needs must, they’ve done it before on diversion...

London Paddington to Plymouth/Cornwall to run London - Newbury as a 387. Turbos to operate Taunton to at least as far as Newbury, extended to Reading if possible, calling at Castle Cary, Westbury, Pewsey, Bedwyn, Hungerford, Kintbury, Newbury (and Reading if possible)

Turbos used as normal on Thames Valley branches.

Some 150 services split where possible in Devon, with 150s covering for 158s to Barnstaple, to free those up to work other services or to release Turbos to work other services.

Not too sure what can be done about the local/regional GWR trains around Bristol. Weston-super-Mare to Bristol Parkway could have stops picked up by Cardiff - Taunton trains to free up a couple of units. Some of the extra peak time trains via Bath and Westbury could probably also be dropped, but many form other things afterwards so that may cause more problems than it solves.

Cornwall branches to stay as now but the mainline to receive current mix of 158s and HST GTis.

Then there is the potential of XC helping out as per now, borrowing stock from other operators as previously mentioned (even if they do have to run at a lower speed), plus the 80x gradually returning to traffic, Chiltern running more frequent/longer services from Oxford etc.

Of the IC routes, I’d say the below is the priority list of which services need to be restored first...

1. London to Cardiff
2. London to Bristol Temple Meads
3. London to Plymouth/Cornwall
—
4. London to Worcester/Hereford
—
5. London to Gloucester/Cheltenham