May 2021 Timetable Change

[Watershed]

three I think is possible but tight

It's the default reversing allowance for multiple units, obviously certain longer formations certain classes and operators have longer allowances.

It's perfectly feasible and happens all the time all over the network, it just doesn't leave much leeway in case of late-running.

 

[LowLevel]

The working timetable is what matters here.

All of the Crewe-Newark services have a minimum wait at Derby of four minutes except the 11:08 departure from Crewe which has a 3.5 minute wait and the 16:08 which has a 3 minute wait.

In the opposite direction 4 minutes is the minimum time at Derby.

It is noted as a possible issue by the TOC and a message has been issued to the traincrew advising them of it in advance and asking them to be ready to do the reversal in good time (IE guard packed up and ready to go rather than finishing any revenue duties etc).

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the Derby reversal, it it intended to have a driver and guard ready on the platform near the doors in a similar manner to London Underground's Waterloo & City Line when frequency is increased?

 

[berneyarms]

Network Rail advise on their website that the electronic National Rail Timetable will be published on Friday 14th May.

Good to see it back!

Electronic national rail timetable - Network Rail

The electronic National Rail Timetable (eNRT) is a long-term timetable for planners that covers services on the national rail network.

www.networkrail.co.uk

 

[westv]

In light of recent events this question might not have an answer but I was just wondering when the claimed timetable running time improvements on the ECML are likely to happen?

 

[swt_passenger]

In light of recent events this question might not have an answer but I was just wondering when the claimed timetable running time improvements on the ECML are likely to happen?

May 22 is expected to be the next significant change. It’s been discussed a few days ago, here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...021-refurbishment.182066/page-51#post-5120396

 

[westv]

Thanks.

 

[ChrisC]

It is interesting that the 0724 EMR train from Nottingham to Worksop does not seem to stop at Hucknall. I would have thought that Hucknall was one of the main stops on the line. The train stops at both Bulwell and Newstead which both have much lower passenger numbers than Hucknall. This leaves a 90 minute gap without a train north to Mansfield at a peak time in the morning. It’s even more annoying if you wanted to travel from Hucknall to Sheffield via Worksop especially as it’s one of the few times during the day when there is actually a decent connection.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'm still wondering why Plymouth has some gaps yet late morning it briefly goes to 2 per hour with the 11:27, 11:53 then 12:27. Wouldn't it make more sense to move the 11:53 to 13:27 or 10:27?

 

[PHILIPE]

I'm still wondering why Plymouth has some gaps yet late morning it briefly goes to 2 per hour with the 11:27, 11:53 then 12:27. Wouldn't it make more sense to move the 11:53 to 13:27 or 10:27?

Where to ?

 

[Glenn1969]

Birmingham . XC Plymouth timetable is somewhat erratic even in the May timetable. 3 trains between and 11.27 and 12.27 but some 2 hour gaps too.

 

[SteveyBee131]

It is interesting that the 0724 EMR train from Nottingham to Worksop does not seem to stop at Hucknall. I would have thought that Hucknall was one of the main stops on the line. The train stops at both Bulwell and Newstead which both have much lower passenger numbers than Hucknall. This leaves a 90 minute gap without a train north to Mansfield at a peak time in the morning. It’s even more annoying if you wanted to travel from Hucknall to Sheffield via Worksop especially as it’s one of the few times during the day when there is actually a decent connection.

How very odd! And indeed annoying. I'm not entirely familiar with the area in question, but unless it's possible to get a tram to Bulwell ahead of the train in question, it could be very frustrating. Even then it's not an ideal situation.

 

[LowLevel]

How very odd! And indeed annoying. I'm not entirely familiar with the area in question, but unless it's possible to get a tram to Bulwell ahead of the train in question, it could be very frustrating. Even then it's not an ideal situation.

There is a train that will get you to Bulwell to double back with a 15 minute time penalty, the problem being that doubling back isn't normally permitted so doesn't show in journey planners. It's daft to book the train to trundle through at 20 mph, no doubt to satisfy some daft timing point. Hopefully enough people will complain to get it sorted in December.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Because all up and down services at that time call at both Newstead and Bulwell it isn't possible for the 0724 to call at both (and Hucknall) and make it to Kirkby Lane End Junction in time for the next Up service to occupy the single line. The current timetable on the Robin Hood Line sees trains passing in Newstead Loop and Bestwood Park Loop, something done away with for the sake of a clockface timetable.

Personally I'd have made the 0724 approx 0710 and dyked it into Bestwood Park Loop which would have enabled it to call at Hucknall.

On the current 0701 Nottingham to Worksop Hucknall is one of the busiest stations served (in normal times).

 

[Jamesrob637]

Birmingham . XC Plymouth timetable is somewhat erratic even in the May timetable. 3 trains between and 11.27 and 12.27 but some 2 hour gaps too.

Precisely. 10:27 is a nice time to leave Plymouth for a day in Exeter or even Bristol in the summer.

 

[westv]

I noticed that currently the evening LNER Kings X to Hull service journey time has had 10 minutes shaved off it but that it unfortunately gets added back again come the May timetable

 

[ashworth]

Because all up and down services at that time call at both Newstead and Bulwell it isn't possible for the 0724 to call at both (and Hucknall) and make it to Kirkby Lane End Junction in time for the next Up service to occupy the single line. The current timetable on the Robin Hood Line sees trains passing in Newstead Loop and Bestwood Park Loop, something done away with for the sake of a clockface timetable.

Personally I'd have made the 0724 approx 0710 and dyked it into Bestwood Park Loop which would have enabled it to call at Hucknall.

On the current 0701 Nottingham to Worksop Hucknall is one of the busiest stations served (in normal times).

I think it’s going to cause real problems for people who work in Mansfield and have used the train for years to get to work. It’s not going to be much fun having to go as early as the 0640 train, also before 8 in the morning there are no buses from Hucknall to Mansfield that take less than 60 minutes to do the journey.

I would have thought not stopping at Bulwell would have been a better alternative as anyone travelling north could use the tram to Hucknall. Doubling back via Bulwell will be lots of additional expense and adds about £10 if you have to travel via Nottingham to reach Sheffield with a peak time ticket.

So annoying when the train is going to trundle through Hucknall at a slow speed yet will not stop.

 

[LowLevel]

I think it’s going to cause real problems for people who work in Mansfield and have used the train for years to get to work. It’s not going to be much fun having to go as early as the 0640 train, also before 8 in the morning there are no buses from Hucknall to Mansfield that take less than 60 minutes to do the journey.

I would have thought not stopping at Bulwell would have been a better alternative as anyone travelling north could use the tram to Hucknall. Doubling back via Bulwell will be lots of additional expense and adds about £10 if you have to travel via Nottingham to reach Sheffield with a peak time ticket.

So annoying when the train is going to trundle through Hucknall at a slow speed yet will not stop.

Get the 0729 train to Bulwell for the 0738 back north. 15 minutes time penalty but I guarantee no-one will care ticket wise, we've all pointed out it's stupid.

 

[Andy1673]

Southern May timetable (both RTT and Southern official) will reintroduce peak Victoria to London Bridge via Crystal Palace and more Victoria to Sutton services, Beckenham Junction to London Bridge will be reinstanted half-hourly. At the same time there will be a very strange hour gap in the morning from Redhill to Victoria between 08:06 and 09:06. This service pattern half-hourly all day but only 08:36ish Redhill to London no longer runs. Now 1R13 Redhill 08:38 to Victoria runs and many years did. Strangely corresponding down services run from Victoria to Reigate half-horly all day including 1R10 Victoria 07:39 to Reigate arriving at 08:28. Redhill losing one London bound service leaving only two Thameslink services at 08:40 and 08:59 to London Bridge and beyond but nothing to Victoria.

 

[LA50041]

Southern May timetable (both RTT and Southern official) will reintroduce peak Victoria to London Bridge via Crystal Palace and more Victoria to Sutton services, Beckenham Junction to London Bridge will be reinstanted half-hourly. At the same time there will be a very strange hour gap in the morning from Redhill to Victoria between 08:06 and 09:06. This service pattern half-hourly all day but only 08:36ish Redhill to London no longer runs. Now 1R13 Redhill 08:38 to Victoria runs and many years did. Strangely corresponding down services run from Victoria to Reigate half-horly all day including 1R10 Victoria 07:39 to Reigate arriving at 08:28. Redhill losing one London bound service leaving only two Thameslink services at 08:40 and 08:59 to London Bridge and beyond but nothing to Victoria.

Looks like there’s a train missing from RTT, pretty sure there is a 0836 from Reigate-Victoria.
I’ll check later when I have access to the CWN

 

[Minstral25]

Southern May timetable (both RTT and Southern official) will reintroduce peak Victoria to London Bridge via Crystal Palace and more Victoria to Sutton services, Beckenham Junction to London Bridge will be reinstanted half-hourly. At the same time there will be a very strange hour gap in the morning from Redhill to Victoria between 08:06 and 09:06. This service pattern half-hourly all day but only 08:36ish Redhill to London no longer runs. Now 1R13 Redhill 08:38 to Victoria runs and many years did. Strangely corresponding down services run from Victoria to Reigate half-horly all day including 1R10 Victoria 07:39 to Reigate arriving at 08:28. Redhill losing one London bound service leaving only two Thameslink services at 08:40 and 08:59 to London Bridge and beyond but nothing to Victoria.

The service arrives from Victoria at Reigate but doesn't go back. This service has not had the Gatwick extension attaching at Redhill since Covid but it was slated to return in May? A GWR unit appears to have taken the normal platform at Gatwick for the extension from May too.

 

[Andy1673]

Looks like there’s a train missing from RTT, pretty sure there is a 0836 from Reigate-Victoria.
I’ll check later when I have access to the CWN

Would be great! But Southern website (Table L) shows the same - all day half-hourly but not 08:36

 

[Romsey]

Has anyone else noticed that the Bournemouth to Manchester and return service now have "not advertised" stops at Brockenhurst and Winchester?
I guess it is one stage up from the Covid service when they didn't call at all!

The question is what have Cross country got against Winchester and Brockenhurst? Or are they trying to loose the traffic - it doesn't matter they are now bankrolled by the DfT like every other former franchise operator. It costs the same if they have passengers boarding or alighting or the train just sits there for 90 seconds.

 

[LA50041]

Would be great! But Southern website (Table L) shows the same - all day half-hourly but not 08:36

That's odd, it is indeed missing from the published timetables, but exists in the carriage working notice at 1R13 0836 REI-VIC arriving 0923.

I'll see if I can find out what has happened when I get a chance to speak to a colleague

 

[Andy1673]

That's odd, it is indeed missing from the published timetables, but exists in the carriage working notice at 1R13 0836 REI-VIC arriving 0923.

I'll see if I can find out what has happened when I get a chance to speak to a colleague

Wow very good news! Thank you very much!

 

[43055]

Has anyone else noticed that the Bournemouth to Manchester and return service now have "not advertised" stops at Brockenhurst and Winchester?
I guess it is one stage up from the Covid service when they didn't call at all!

The question is what have Cross country got against Winchester and Brockenhurst? Or are they trying to loose the traffic - it doesn't matter they are now bankrolled by the DfT like every other former franchise operator. It costs the same if they have passengers boarding or alighting or the train just sits there for 90 seconds.

It is not about cost but more distancing when alighting and boarding services so some stops have been removed to allow longer waits else where.

From the Cross Country website timetable page:

We are also continuing with the increased dwell time at key stations, giving extra time for people to board and alight safely. To achieve this whilst maintaining the national railway timetable, a small number of stations have seen our services reduced or withdrawn to allow for additional time at heavily used stations.

 

[The Planner]

Has anyone else noticed that the Bournemouth to Manchester and return service now have "not advertised" stops at Brockenhurst and Winchester?
I guess it is one stage up from the Covid service when they didn't call at all!

The question is what have Cross country got against Winchester and Brockenhurst? Or are they trying to loose the traffic - it doesn't matter they are now bankrolled by the DfT like every other former franchise operator. It costs the same if they have passengers boarding or alighting or the train just sits there for 90 seconds.

They won't stop. Worcestershire Parkway had unadvertised stops in the timetable prior to it opening. It is to make sure that switching them back on is as easy as possible.

 

[Bikeman78]

It is not about cost but more distancing when alighting and boarding services so some stops have been removed to allow longer waits else where.

From the Cross Country website timetable page:

That might be the official line but the dwell times at Basingstoke and Southampton Parkway are the same whether the train stops at Winchester or not.

 

[dk1]

That might be the official line but the dwell times at Basingstoke and Southampton Parkway are the same whether the train stops at Winchester or not.

XC certainly seem to be stringing this Covid lark out more than many other TOCs.

 

[Jamesrob637]

XC certainly seem to be stringing this Covid lark out more than many other TOCs.

However, they were proactive in reintroducing doubles on Bournemouth and Reading to Manchester as well as many West Country services not only from when outdoor seating restarted or even next Monday, but actually from the 29th of March when the rule of six was reintroduced, even if we could only go "to the supermarket" for a further fortnight!