It will be interesting to see how BTP fare in the GBR shakeup. As a fair bit of the funding through Police Service Agreements comes from TOCs one wonders if GBR will pick up the majority of funding if GBR have a bigger slice of the cake.BTP have an annual budget of £300 million & 3,000 officers.
That is £100,000 per officer. (Including overheads)
A huge sum bearing in mind staff & the public rarely see them, except for occasional PR shows at main line stations.
Staff do not ring them because BTP response times are usually “non attendance” or in hours not minutes.
BTP need a good shake up, or abolition & the yearly £300 million given to proper police in rail trouble hot spots.
I hope that is one good thing that will come from this horrid event. But it won’t.
Like everyone else - very best wishes to the injured staff.
Lets hope the youth court do not give the offender one year which will lead to release in four months.
Sadly very likely- so his mates continue ur to realise there is no downside to “chagging” or whatever they call attempted murder.
The issue has always been the availability of BTP patrols and their staff. Unfortunately they’re incredibly thinly spread, especially in London for the amount of incidents that happen. They have to prioritise. You arrest someone on a station and you’ve tied up several officers for hours. I’ve worked at London terminals where they’ve been impossible to get hold off at reasonable times in the day. I’d hate to think of what it’s like at suburban or rural locations.ely. The more reports that are logged, more power of challenge is available, not just to unions, but also to managers who often find it difficult, if not impossible, to convince BTP to change/increase patrols
The Southeastern suburban lines have always been notorious for trouble.
Hopefully the staff member will make a full recovery and receive decent compensation from Southeastern for work injury and trauma.
Some platform dispatchers have them, I know the staff at St Albans City for Thameslink do use them.Are station staff not provided with body cameras?
Until the rail industry as a whole realises this is all linked and starts taking revenue protection seriously and not the mere inconvenient box ticking exercise most TOCs treat it as then this will continue to happen. If an individual is carrying a knife then they intend to use it, its as simple as that, and in this case the victim was stabbed 7 times. Not once,7.That is deliberate and intentional. They may think it is for defence however a knife is not a defensive weapon, it can and will kill. Using a knife is attempted murder, and sadly many knife crime deaths are caused by the knife holders own weapon.
Its blatantly obvious, remove staff from stations and trains and it becomes a free-for-all. Yes it will cost money but when the travelling environment is safe and secure the gain in revenue from both increased patronage and better revenue collection will contribute significantly to the cost. It won't cover the cost but what price is safety worth it?
I'm not sure it's any worse than the rest of London.
Difference is far less staff and police around to keep it safe. Many think they can do as the please, and aren't used to being challenged. I'm surprised this person didn't know Bromley South is one of very few places with barriers and didn't get off the stop before like many others.
I think any stabbing should be a priorityThe issue has always been the availability of BTP patrols and their staff. Unfortunately they’re incredibly thinly spread, especially in London for the amount of incidents that happen. They have to prioritise. You arrest someone on a station and you’ve tied up several officers for hours. I’ve worked at London terminals where they’ve been impossible to get hold off at reasonable times in the day. I’d hate to think of what it’s like at suburban or rural locations.
Local (senior might have more luck?) management can only achieve so much. As has been stated their funding comes via train service agreements so ultimately TOCs have some power but they’d have to fund it more.
I think the point is, and is what the union are probably arguing too, is that other antisocial behaviour has gone on prior to this and it has built up to this stabbing. Had the BTP treated the usual antisocial behaviour calls as a priority too, then maybe the criminal who did this wouldn't have been so brazen as to stab a staff member. These events don't just happen, there's usually clues prior and build up that those locally can see but unless you actually listen to those people you'll miss the warning signs and eventually something like this happens. By the time someone is stabbed then it's too late, the time to intervene was way before it got to that pointI hope everyone is ok
I think any stabbing should be a priority
I'm surprised this person didn't know Bromley South is one of very few places with barriers and didn't get off the stop before like many others.
Southeastern Metro reminds me of how the Bendy routes were in London, one big free for all and all types of undesirables being unchallenged for a fare.I'm not sure it's any worse than the rest of London.
Difference is far less staff and police around to keep it safe. Many think they can do as the please, and aren't used to being challenged. I'm surprised this person didn't know Bromley South is one of very few places with barriers and didn't get off the stop before like many others.
I hope everyone is ok
I think any stabbing should be a priority
Southeastern Metro reminds me of how the Bendy routes were in London, one big free for all and all types of undesirables being unchallenged for a fare.
The Metro side had an opportunity to become part of London Overground in 2016 which was scuppered by Grayling and has continued to be a terrible TOC with no incentive for improvements as the franchise was allowed to hike up fares which led it to be more expensive for local paper fares before Oyster PAYG was introduced with set NR fares across the franchises served inside the capital.
Abbey Wood at least has seen improvements since the station became managed by TfL Rail.
The issue has always been the availability of BTP patrols and their staff. Unfortunately they’re incredibly thinly spread, especially in London for the amount of incidents that happen. They have to prioritise. You arrest someone on a station and you’ve tied up several officers for hours. I’ve worked at London terminals where they’ve been impossible to get hold off at reasonable times in the day. I’d hate to think of what it’s like at suburban or rural locations.
Bromley doesn't need to be an unstaffed station to be effected by anti social behaviour from people travelling from other stationsThis is beyond that stage and level. Bromley South is not a quiet un-staffed backwater - the victim was staff. The problem is deeper, sadly.
Yep but there's a whole culture now of not paying and doing as you want on SE metro as it's so minimally staffed. When there's a very rare occasion someone is challenged they kick off as a culture has become embedded. It's a symptom of the unsafe railway that's developed through inadequate staffing and policing.This is beyond that stage and level. Bromley South is not a quiet un-staffed backwater - the victim was staff. The problem is deeper, sadly.
If he's a teenager he'll almost inevitably have an oyster card. If he's the type to stab someone seven times I doubt he's got many qualms about arguing if a ticket barrier doesn't open.
I'm not sure it's even medium term (2-5 years). Wasn't it the case that within a month or two counted passenger numbers at Abbey Wood near doubled after allday staffing and barrier lines were introduced. That's a couple of million journeys per annum.Obviously and the BTP were on site within minutes. I’m referring to the general availability of BTP for lower levels of anti-social behaviour.
Southeastern has also been in the “last year” of its franchise for several years so I can understand somewhat the lack of desire for big investments. This more feeds into the catastrophic job the DfT did of franchising in the end which is a tad off-topic but still relevant.
It’s not surprising that if you throw money at a problem (Abbey Wood/Crossrail or London Overground) you solve a lot of issues, some of which pay medium-term dividend. But if you’re constantly looking to the short-term it allows problems to be compounded.
There have been proposals in the past to merge BTP with the Met and Police Scotland, but nothing happened. What's the issue?
There are quite a few specialist police forces. The Civil Nuclear Constabulary is an example.Reading through the 53 posts an idea has occurred to me that I never had before.
At post 39 Horizon22 said an arrest ties up BTP officers for ages.
BT police are said to be railway specialists. They do not need to process an arrest. They could be on their way using their specialist skills(if they exist) on other calls.
They should immediately hand over the suspects to the local police who should have the responsibility for processing & detaining if necessary.
BTP travel 2 in a car so the second officer can give all the details to the local officers as they go to another railway job.
If forum member think this silly then I still think BTP should be abolished.
What are the specialist skills? Other professionals, RAIB, do accident investigation. BTP often get in the way.
Local non BTP police really know their beat including the railway stations. We do not need, or have a Tyne & Wear Metro force, or a bus or taxi police force.
There are quite a few specialist police forces. The Civil Nuclear Constabulary is an example.
A teenager has been charged after a ticket inspector was stabbed and two other members of staff were attacked at a railway station.
The boy, 17, is alleged to have struck out at staff after being challenged over a ticket.
Bromley South was evacuated after the incident at 1pm on Bank Holiday Monday.
One of the victims, a man, suffered wounds from a knife and was taken to hospital for treatment.
His injuries were not life threatening and he was released the same day.
The other two victims were treated at the scene for injuries.
The suspect was arrested moments after the attack and has since been charged with grievous bodily harm, actual bodily harm, assault, possession of a Class A drug with intent to supply and possessing a knife.
He is due to appear today at Bromley Youth Court.
You are correct. I had thought it was four for some reason.It's only three isn't it? MoD, BTP and CNC?