Carlisle Station Improvements

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

As part of the Borderlands package, contractors have been appointed for the substantial works to take place in and around the entrances to Carlisle Station.

Ambitious £20 million plans to transform Carlisle Railway Station and its surroundings have taken a step forward as contractors for the project have been revealed.

Story Contracting has been appointed for the work to the northern gateway and Eric Wright Civil Engineering has been named as the contractor for the work to the southern gateway of the station.

£20 million Carlisle train station revamp: Next steps revealed – cumbriacrack.com

cumbriacrack.com

Interesting that the article says the Council now own the land where Matalan is ‘behind’ the Station. Will be much easier for future replacement bus services to use this area when its redeveloped, they really do cause traffic upset (through no fault of their own I will add) when departing from the Citadel area!

I look forwarding to seeing plans in due course.

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

I am pleased that it appears the forecourt (Court Square) will be pedestrainised.
I have often had to dodge cars ( parked or otherwise), railings & assorted street furniture to get from The Citadel to the Station entrance.

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

Looking at the artists impression, I wonder how parking for the adjacent hotel will work?

Assume works to the lane behind Botchergate which comes out through the arch (Just off pic to the left) will sort this?

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

The WCML disruption today was a strong case of showing why moving bus operations to the other side of Carlisle Station will be a welcome move!

Simply not enough room for several buses, some were parked up on nearby Warwick Road as overspill.

Looked a busy afternoon for staff on the forecourt.

 

[themiller]

The north end of platform one appears to be complete but works over the subway seem to have paused due to corrosion in the steel roof panels which form the base of the platform.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Looking at the artists impression, I wonder how parking for the adjacent hotel will work?

Assume works to the lane behind Botchergate which comes out through the arch (Just off pic to the left) will sort this?

That does look good, I do like Carlisle Station, usually because I am doing one of scenic rail journeys to / from there and sometimes by Steam or Diesel Charter which are even better. (I may be doing the HST Staycation Express in a few weeks )

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

The north end of platform one appears to be complete but works over the subway seem to have paused due to corrosion in the steel roof panels which form the base of the platform.

An image has appeared showing possible future Platform changes connected to HS2.

 

[_toommm_]

An image has appeared showing possible future Platform changes connected to HS2.

Seems pretty bad if they fill in Platform 2 as the services ex. Barrow will either have to block the WCML to cross over to the other bays, or occupy a through platform. Unless that’s what they plan for Platform 0.

 

[Mollman]

Seems pretty bad if they fill in Platform 2 as the services ex. Barrow will either have to block the WCML to cross over to the other bays, or occupy a through platform. Unless that’s what they plan for Platform 0.

I'm guessing that's what Platform 0 is for as currently to access Platform 2 from coast conflicts with WCML traffic through P1

 

[zwk500]

An image has appeared showing possible future Platform changes connected to HS2.

Is the breaching through of the bay platforms on the East side meant to be shown or a mistake?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the breaching through of the bay platforms on the East side meant to be shown or a mistake?

There's clearly some sort of mistake on it because the footbridge appears to drop people in the middle of the 6-foot.

 

[zwk500]

There's clearly some sort of mistake on it because the footbridge appears to drop people in the middle of the 6-foot.

That was what confused me!

 

[AJP62]

Is there a plan of the current changes anywhere?

Cheers

 

[D6975]

If platform 2 is being infilled, then why a platform 0? This could be platform 1 and the existing platform 1 then becomes platform 2.

 

[themiller]

Presumably to minimise signalling changes.

 

[zwk500]

If platform 2 is being infilled, then why a platform 0? This could be platform 1 and the existing platform 1 then becomes platform 2.

I suspect at this stage no definitive decision has been made and so it's being referred to as 0 for clarity between old/new layouts. When they come to building it, they may renumber it, or they might just leave it

Presumably to minimise signalling changes.

Not only that, but a lot of data changes in planning systems, records to be updated, signs to be changed and so forth. Oh and Staff to be retrained.

 

[Roose]

As part of the Borderlands package, contractors have been appointed for the substantial works to take place in and around the entrances to Carlisle Station.

£20 million Carlisle train station revamp: Next steps revealed – cumbriacrack.com

cumbriacrack.com

Interesting that the article says the Council now own the land where Matalan is ‘behind’ the Station. Will be much easier for future replacement bus services to use this area when its redeveloped, they really do cause traffic upset (through no fault of their own I will add) when departing from the Citadel area!

I look forwarding to seeing plans in due course.

The second consultation on changes to Carlisle Gateway plans suggested RR vehicles would park on Botchergate or English Street, immediately past The Citadels. They would be called forward as required from an unspecified location.

So many reasons why this is not sensible. In my response, I mentioned distance to walk with luggage, the slope to English Street, road crossing, traffic congestion issues, pedestrian crowding on Saturday & Sunday afternoons & evenings and difficulties for railway staff managing the process between three locations.

Imagine the fun if Beattock-Carlisle is shut for engineering works and passengers - potentially 2000 - for and from a northbound and southbound service have to be transferred to/from RR vehicles within the same half hour time frame while passengers from other services are coming and going.

A transfer location on the public baths site is not without difficulties either, notably road access and congestion.

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

A transfer location on the public baths site is not without difficulties either, notably road access and congestion.

The public baths will likely be demolished when the new facilities at the revamped Sands Centre are completed. Together with the various plans for this side of the station, that whole area may look very different over the next few years.

I must add there is a local campaign to save the Turkish Baths in this area, which if memory serves may well be listed?

 

[midland1]

Looks like the person who drew up the diagram of Carlisle had never been to Carlisle! As for the "existing train line" even then there looks far to many roads down the middle.

 

[30907]

Looks like the person who drew up the diagram of Carlisle had never been to Carlisle! As for the "existing train line" even then there looks far to many roads down the middle.

Or they have drawn each rail, but forgotten to make the legend correspond?

 

[edwin_m]

I'm guessing that's what Platform 0 is for as currently to access Platform 2 from coast conflicts with WCML traffic through P1

Also it looks like the works to extend platform 1 will block the rail access to the present platform 3.

 

[chiltern trev]

Platform 0 is for the Cumbrian Coast line services that use platform 2.

There have also been 2 consultations on improving Carlisle Citadel station. https://www.cumbria.gov.uk/csgcc/

 

[HSP 2]

Is HS2 going to use both platforms 1 (north bound) and platform 3 (south bound)?

 

[themiller]

Is HS2 going to use both platforms 1 (north bound) and platform 3 (south bound)?

At this stage of the proceedings, nobody knows. Having said that, I would expect the platforming to be similar to today with mainline trains using 1,3, & 4.

 

[edwin_m]

At this stage of the proceedings, nobody knows. Having said that, I would expect the platforming to be similar to today with mainline trains using 1,3, & 4.

From the plan above it looks like all three of these will be lengthened to 400m (plus a bit) for two HS2 units coupled together, giving them the flexibility to use any of these platforms. Interesting to see if they convert the remaining ones of the miscellaneous non-platform tracks into proper through lines for freight - may not be necessary as Kingmoor is so near?

 

[chiltern trev]

From the plan above it looks like all three of these will be lengthened to 400m (plus a bit) for two HS2 units coupled together, giving them the flexibility to use any of these platforms. Interesting to see if they convert the remaining ones of the miscellaneous non-platform tracks into proper through lines for freight - may not be necessary as Kingmoor is so near?

When I have been in the station, freights go through on the platform lines and not the miscellaneous non-platform tracks. The platform lines are in better condition and have better alignments than the non-platform tracks. Platform 1 is the least used for freight - probably due to the numbers of turnouts at the south end, platform 3 being more of a straight run in.

 

[zwk500]

From the plan above it looks like all three of these will be lengthened to 400m (plus a bit) for two HS2 units coupled together, giving them the flexibility to use any of these platforms. Interesting to see if they convert the remaining ones of the miscellaneous non-platform tracks into proper through lines for freight - may not be necessary as Kingmoor is so near?

The non-platform tracks are all rated as sidings only and too short for freight, although they're handy for light locos and the occasional postal/departmental unit. They're also well used by railtours. Kingmoor to the north and Upperby to the south can take the freight in general.

 

[edwin_m]

The non-platform tracks are all rated as sidings only and too short for freight, although they're handy for light locos and the occasional postal/departmental unit. They're also well used by railtours. Kingmoor to the north and Upperby to the south can take the freight in general.

Yes. I was thinking a southbound freight could set out from Kingmoor just as a southbound passenger was stopping at the station, so it would be at least as close behind the passenger as if it had started from a through track. Similarly a northbound freight with a passenger right behind would carry on at line speed through the station (probably somewhat faster than today) and get into Kingmoor before the passenger had re-started. This does of course assume all the passenger trains will stop, which isn't certain as I believe various service specs have suggested they wouldn't. But lengthening the platforms indicates that at least some of the fast HS2 trains will stop, as these are the 400m ones.

Also of course many of the freight trains will be too long to fit in the through tracks in any case.

 

[zwk500]

Yes. I was thinking a southbound freight could set out from Kingmoor just as a southbound passenger was stopping at the station, so it would be at least as close behind the passenger as if it had started from a through track. Similarly a northbound freight with a passenger right behind would carry on at line speed through the station (probably somewhat faster than today) and get into Kingmoor before the passenger had re-started. This does of course assume all the passenger trains will stop, which isn't certain as I believe various service specs have suggested they wouldn't. But lengthening the platforms indicates that at least some of the fast HS2 trains will stop, as these are the 400m ones.

Yes both those modes are generally true - Especially as there's a brief section of Bi-Di at the northern end so you can bring a Southbound passenger into 4, a southbound freight into 3 and northbound passenger into 1 at the same time. Although the junction for the Kingmoor lines could do with having a faster entry/exit speed if the speed at the station throats is being increased. Lengthening Upperby Bridge standage to 775m would also help.

 

[yorksrob]

Any news when the station bar is likely to reopen ?