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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

DunsBus

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Aye, 6-cylinder Cummins with a Voith box; vocal machines to say the least. Lothian were the most notable customer for Darts of such specifications, but far from the only one; Cardiff took a not insignificant number.

As for what SLF & SPD respectively stood for...

  • SLF - Super Low Floor (assigned mainly to distinguish it from the original step-entrance Dart, which colloquially became known as the 'steppie' or 'steppy' Dart).
  • SPD - Super Pointer Dart (assigned to the longest - re full-size - Pointer bodies on the Dart chassis; the shortest Pointer body available on the Dart chassis was known as the MPD or Mini Pointer Dart).
In short, Lothians' Pointer Darts (prefix and year suffix-registered examples) were both SLFs & SPDs.
Slightly off-topic, but the seven X-reg Darts bought by Munro's of Jedburgh in 2000 had SPD chassis and Alexander ALX200 bodies - a combination which remained a one-off.
 
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Strathclyder

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Indeed! 80 of them to Cardiff (and one of the very last companies still operating them. I believe JMB still use some ex Lothian SPDs?

It's a shame Transbus collapsed as I believe that was the main reason Lothian switched to Wright/Volvo?
Yep, JMB still had several on their books last I checked (including a few that were last used by Lothian as driver trainers before JMB got hold of them), most have been sold in favour of ex-Stagecoach Pointers and off-the-shelf E200s however. And yeah, Cardiff is one of the last major operators still with SPD Darts active.

Aye, I beileve it was. With that in mind, Lothian had dipped their toe into the Volvo pool in the midst of their Dennis/Transbus period with the 7 President-bodied B7TLs (W291-296 PFS & X683 RDA/WDF 297; numbered 291-297 & all new in March/April 2000). 297 was a former Volvo demostrator that first saw use with Dublin Bus as their 00-D-31073 (VP2).



(linked image copyright of Flickr's Goodwill City & Daniel Mears respectively)

Slightly off-topic, but the seven X-reg Darts bought by Munro's of Jedburgh in 2000 had SPD chassis and Alexander ALX200 bodies - a combination which remained a one-off.
Now those are odd beasties to say the least, having just looked them up (linked image copyright of Flickr's William Walker).

 

scosutsut

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181 and 946 revealed in an almost identical livery for Lothiancountry and EastCoastbuses. Essentially just different names. Surely only a matter of time before the two become one legal entity?

Lothian Country Tweet

Looks to be Lothian Country green with white replacing the cream.
That's a welcome surprise! Looks umpteen million thousand percent* better than either of the schemes it replaces imo. Will reserve judgement until I see it in the flesh but a potential candidate for my new favourite (currently 'proper' Skylink Blue/White)

(* - approximately)
 

DunsBus

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Yep, JMB still had several on their books last I checked (including a few that were last used by Lothian as driver trainers before JMB got hold of them), most have been sold in favour of ex-Stagecoach Pointers and off-the-shelf E200s however. And yeah, Cardiff is one of the last major operators still with SPD Darts active.

Aye, I beileve it was. With that in mind, Lothian had dipped their toe into the Volvo pool in the midst of their Dennis/Transbus period with the 7 President-bodied B7TLs (W291-296 PFS & X683 RDA/WDF 297; numbered 291-297 & all new in March/April 2000). 297 was a former Volvo demostrator that first saw use with Dublin Bus as their 00-D-31073 (VP2).



(linked image copyright of Flickr's Goodwill City & Daniel Mears respectively)


Now those are odd beasties to say the least, having just looked them up (linked image copyright of Flickr's William Walker).


If I'm correct, the Munro's seven were specified with the SPD chassis to cope with high-speed running on the A68 - which also involved climbing and then descending Soutra Hill on the way to and from Edinburgh.
 

scosutsut

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Not to mention the fact that many of the two fleets will have been repainted at least twice (some even more). Meanwhile a number of 11 plate Gemini2’s in the main Lothian fleet are yet to have received a repaint after 10 years of service.
I believe this is 946s 6th coat of paint...

Airlink
East Lothian Swoops
East Coast FOTF (fleet of the future)
Lothian Country FOTF (briefly, post decapitation repair)
East Coast Simplified FOTF
Whatever we're calling this latest one
 

Lothianbus703

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I believe this is 946s 6th coat of paint...

Airlink
East Lothian Swoops
East Coast FOTF (fleet of the future)
Lothian Country FOTF (briefly, post decapitation repair)
East Coast Simplified FOTF
Whatever we're calling this latest one
Wasn't it 942 that got "decapitated"??
 

DunsBus

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I believe this is 946s 6th coat of paint...

Airlink
East Lothian Swoops
East Coast FOTF (fleet of the future)
Lothian Country FOTF (briefly, post decapitation repair)
East Coast Simplified FOTF
Whatever we're calling this latest one
942 was the one decapitated - the underside of the bridge at the Western General Hospital still has the scrapes of cream paint along its underside to this day.

946, IIRC, was the one which went down the embankment outside Haddington a few months ago.
 

Strathclyder

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If I'm correct, the Munro's seven were specified with the SPD chassis to cope with high-speed running on the A68 - which also involved climbing and then descending Soutra Hill on the way to and from Edinburgh.
It's certainly a run I would have liked to do on one of those stretched ALX200s. Ofc, most Darts aren't known for being refined, but they're good for a noisy thrash lol
 

ScotRail158725

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I believe this is 946s 6th coat of paint...

Airlink
East Lothian Swoops
East Coast FOTF (fleet of the future)
Lothian Country FOTF (briefly, post decapitation repair)
East Coast Simplified FOTF
Whatever we're calling this latest one
This is only 946s second. you’re mixing up 942 with this
 
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Edinburgh Live have released an article on the festive services.

Below is Important information from the article:
Regular subsidised services are also not contracted to operate on the festive dates with the exception of the 40/X40, which operates a special service between St John’s and Edinburgh Royal Infirmary.
"First Bus have indicated that they will not be operating on any of the festive dates and Lothian Country have confirmed that they are planning to operate a limited commercial service on 26 December.

The services which will operate will be First Bus X25,serving Blackridge – Livingston via Armadale, Bathville, Bathgate, Deans North, Ladywell East & Alderstone Rd.

26 serving Fauldhouse – Deans via Bents, Stoneyburn, Loganlea, West Calder, Polbeth, Livingston Centre, Howden, Ladywell & Knightsridge

X38 serving Linlithgow – Edinburgh via Winchburgh

The services will operate on Christmas Day and New Year’s Day with the X38 service also running on Boxing Day and 2 January

Lothian Country services operating will be X27 serving Whitburn– Edinburgh via Blackburn, Seafield, Eliburn – Livingston Centre, Dedridge East, Mid Calder, East Calder & Wilkieston.

X28 serving Bathgate – Edinburgh via Deans North, Knightsridge, Craigshill, Dedridge East, East Calder & Kirknewton.

275 serving Bathgate – Broxburn via Wester Inch - Blackburn, Seafield, Livingston Village, Livingston Centre, Fastlink, Pumpherston & Uphall .

276 Extension to include Stoneyburn, Bents and West Calder.

These services will operate on Christmas Day and New Years Day but the 276 will only operate on Boxing Day and 2 January

The article seems quite contradictory as it says that "First Bus have indicated that they will not be operating on any festive dates" then goes onto list First Bus services operating in that period.

This is the link to the full article:
 

scosutsut

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scosutsut
Wasn't it 942 that got "decapitated"??

942 was the one decapitated - the underside of the bridge at the Western General Hospital still has the scrapes of cream paint along its underside to this day.

946, IIRC, was the one which went down the embankment outside Haddington a few months ago.

This is only 946s second. you’re mixing up 942 with this

Yep, my bad, they've thrown me by renumbering 20946 back to 946 since its repair.

942 is on 5th paint job, if it receives these new colours then it will hit #6

Third surely?

Airlink to Lothian Country Buses
LCB to East Coast Buses
ECB to ECB simplified?

4th livery / 3rd repaint yeah!
 
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TheEastCoaster

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Edinburgh Live have released an article on the festive services.

Below is Important information from the article:



The article seems quite contradictory as it says that "First Bus have indicated that they will not be operating on any festive dates" then goes onto list First Bus services operating in that period.

This is the link to the full article:

That is pretty misleading, but hey everybody makes mistakes it seems!

notice how it dosnt say that Horsburgh are running the 40/X40 on the festive dates, now I’m not one to speculate but maybe LCB might have a chance of running it like they did the 231 last Christmas!

which speaking of which is not listed below, I’m guessing last years one didn’t go down so well!
 

CN04NRJ

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Some of them did - the 52 and 53 plate examples were great little workhorses and generally pretty quick, but the Y reg ones were mostly pretty slow.
I never drove the V reg ones as they were all gone before I started.

Second that, the earliest (S reg) SPDs I drove couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding. The Euro 3 engine completely transformed the bus - i'd love to have a go of a Voith one but with an Alison box they were absolutely rapid, same can be said for the Transbus Enviro 300 (a far superior bus to the Wright/B7RLE in my opinion).
 

Graeme Duncan

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Just a suggestion now that 942 was previously 20942 and 946 was 20946
would it not be feasible to renumber 20937-20941 back to 937-941 ,20943-20945
back to 943-945 and finally 20947-20950 back to 947-950 as they where during
their airlink days.
 

CN04NRJ

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Just a suggestion now that 942 was previously 20942 and 946 was 20946
would it not be feasible to renumber 20937-20941 back to 937-941 ,20943-20945
back to 943-945 and finally 20947-20950 back to 947-950 as they where during
their airlink days.

That's precisely what they're doing with the new branding.
 

scosutsut

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That's precisely what they're doing with the new branding.
I would have thought so. I think there are parallel gaps in the main fleet numbering system for everything except for 20001-8 which would need adjusting beyond dropping the first 2 digits.

Also realised the genius of the shared livery. It's getting rid of three paint colours fleet-wide going forward - clever simplification.

I'm also delighted as I hate ECBs outgoing scheme and see them daily
 

ScotRail158725

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would it not be feasible to renumber 20937-20941 back to 937-941 ,20943-20945
back to 943-945 and finally 20947-20950 back to 947-950 as they where during
their airlink days.
Do you actually think that ISNT the plan? They’ll obviously be changed, most likely when they get painted IF they do get repainted into the new livery
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I would have thought so. I think there are parallel gaps in the main fleet numbering system for everything except for 20001-8 which would need adjusting beyond dropping the first 2 digits.

Also realised the genius of the shared livery. It's getting rid of three paint colours fleet-wide going forward - clever simplification.

I'm also delighted as I hate ECBs outgoing scheme and see them daily
I also hate the ECB livery, I just think it’s bland. It will be interesting to see the full view of the new one in the flesh.

I agree about fleet numbers, don’t see why anything would change drastically with the exception of 20001-20008, of which they may take numbers within the 511-550 range (I guess 1051-1062 could also be renumbered to simplify things but that’s quite rare) or in the high 900’s.



For those interested in ECB’s 841-850 replacements, I had wondered with the reduction in service in West Lothian if some vehicles might transfer across to ECB to phase them out? 10195-10196 are still in storage as well and have been since the beginning of the year. That batch of 5 (10195-10199) in my view are likely to be the first full batch to be repainted, and possibly 171-175, 186-190 depending on whether they’re sticking with the subsidiaries.
 

scosutsut

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I agree about fleet numbers, don’t see why anything would change drastically with the exception of 20001-20008, of which they may take numbers within the 511-550 range (I guess 1051-1062 could also be renumbered to simplify things but that’s quite rare) or in the high 900’s.



For those interested in ECB’s 841-850 replacements, I had wondered with the reduction in service in West Lothian if some vehicles might transfer across to ECB to phase them out? 10195-10196 are still in storage as well and have been since the beginning of the year. That batch of 5 (10195-10199) in my view are likely to be the first full batch to be repainted, and possibly 171-175, 186-190 depending on whether they’re sticking with the subsidiaries.
511-8 would be where I'd stick them, close to similarly aged vehicles.

Agree re the B7RLEs to prioritise with paint!

If it were me I'd switch some Gemini 3s from main fleet to ECB/LCB to let 841-850 and 928-936 to go as they are older than surviving vehicles being withdrawn from the main fleet, using the remaining incoming E400s to plug gaps.

This is assuming age is the only factor being considered in the withdrawal order. Not much evidence to suggest otherwise so far but vehicles with heavy refurbs (like 841-850) could quite logically outlast newer vehicles, especially if both are Euro 5 and need SCR treatment to reach E6. It's previously been said resale value was a key consideration, hence retiring vehicles off generally around 13 years old.

Based on that, and not wanting to paint more vehicles when it's not needed I'd seriously consider discontinuing the Skylink brand, running those routes without livery differentiation - freeing the 17 plate ex Airlinks (496-510) to come over into ECB/LCB as they are due a repaint just about anyway.
 
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Busman757

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511-8 would be where I'd stick them, close to similarly aged vehicles.

Agree re the B7RLEs to prioritise with paint!

If it were me I'd switch some Gemini 3s from main fleet to ECB/LCB to let 841-850 and 928-936 to go as they are older than surviving vehicles being withdrawn from the main fleet, using the remaining incoming E400s to plug gaps.

This is assuming age is the only factor being considered in the withdrawal order. Not much evidence to suggest otherwise so far but vehicles with heavy refurbs (like 841-850) could quite logically outlast newer vehicles, especially if both are Euro 5 and need SCR treatment to reach E6. It's previously been said resale value was a key consideration, hence retiring vehicles off generally around 13 years old.

Based on that, and not wanting to paint more vehicles when it's not needed I'd seriously consider discontinuing the Skylink brand, running those routes without livery differentiation - freeing the 17 plate ex Airlinks (496-510) to come over into ECB/LCB as they are due a repaint just about anyway.
841-850 have already been converted to Euro 6. It also looks like LCB’s 1047 and 593 are away for paint going by the tracker. There are two sitting in Seafield but unsure which ones.
 

CN04NRJ

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I've noticed that bus 927 has entered service again on the 27 today. And 926 is on the 23

They're both Euro 6 now, I think that's recent unless anyone knows differently. Certainly didn't have the extra cab warning lights and new exhaust the last time I drove them.
 

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