Trivia: Common railway related fallacies

[mrcheek]

Connections were always held for late running trains prior to privatisation of British Rail.

surely in the good old days of BR trains never ran late! and fares were all exceptionally low. and no need to mention the quality of the food and drink on offer!

 

[pdeaves]

(pre-lurgy, at least): "Trains are always overcrowded" and yet, at the same time, "trains just cart fresh air around the country"

 

[xotGD]

two former colleagues (at different jobs) both seemed convinced that any ticket showing an expiry date (such as a day or period return) can be used as often as you like up to the end of the day shown on the ticket

They sound like bashers from the 1980s.

 

[pdeaves]

It's perfectly OK to have a policy of compulsory reservation (pushing the national rules as far as possible) and equally OK to turf people out of their seats for someone who just reserved 5 minutes ago (Crosscountry, I am looking at you). A restaurant would never dream of shifting already-seated customers, would it?

 

[gg1]

A restaurant would never dream of shifting already-seated customers, would it?

I've been in a couple which do exactly that, juggling the positions of already seated single diners or couples to free up tables for larger groups.

 

[Western Lord]

I've been in a couple which do exactly that, juggling the positions of already seated single diners or couples to free up tables for larger groups.

Or for Lord Melbury......

 

[norbitonflyer]

They sound like bashers from the 1980s.

One of them was indeed a Hoover-basher, and it was the late 1980s.

The other was a commuter (by coach, rather than train)

 

[AY1975]

That, just because I wear railway uniform, I must know how long this disruption will last.

That, just because I wear railway uniform, I must know the times and connections to any place anywhere else on the network.

Some railway staff seem to think that wearing railway uniform gives them the authority to make up their own rules about what the public may and may not do on trains and stations (especially with regard to railway photography, and generally spending time on stations watching trains).

This thread from 2018 on wrongly assumed facts by passengers may also be of interest: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wrongly-assumed-facts-by-passengers.159614/

 

[CaptainHaddock]

That there's only one fare for a journey between two stations.

I used to work for National Rail Enquiries and we used to get countless calls from people saying "how much is it to go to London"?

Once I'd ascertained where they were travelling from (funny how they expected you to know telepathically their station of origin) they were less then impressed when I told them there were about 47 different types of ticket depending on when they were travelling, what route they took and for long in advance they booked!

 

[Route115?]

When I was young (very young) I thought that the third & fourth rails on undeground tracks were for the motors & the brakes respectively. I haven't become an electrician.

 

[lordbusiness]

That the Department for Transport is staffed by professionals who know more about running the railway than the people actually running it?

 

[contrex]

Has anyone mentioned 'the third rail is only live when a train is coming', which has cost people their lives?

 

[ComUtoR]

Changing a Franchise solves everything overnight.
Being under the Government will solve everything.

 

[Ianno87]

Changing a Franchise solves everything overnight.
Being under the Government will solve everything.

See also: "The incumbent franchisee won't win because they've not been very good"

 

[class 9]

An HST is a DMU.

 

[norbitonflyer]

An HST is a DMU.

It is.

- Classified in the 2xx series
- two power cars working in multiple with a number of intermediate trailers
- coach designations are TS etc (i.e trailer standard) not SO etc
- the prototype unit was originally configured as locos-and-coaches, but modifications during the development programme led to the vehicles being renumbered and reclassified as a unit train because the heating/aircon circuits were not standard ETH connections, so the carriages could not take ETH/Aircon from anything other than an HST power car.
- The locos 41001 and 41002 became coaches 43000 and 43001 (no loco has a TOPS number ending 000 - locos D5000, D8000 and D9000 were renumbered 24005, 20050 and 55022 respectively) and the coaches were renumbered from the 1xxxx series (used for Mark 3 LHCS) to 4xxxx.

That HST trailers are not LHCS was illustrated when the Class 91s were first introduced. As their production was running ahead of that of Mark 4 coaching stock, some of them were put to work hauling HST sets. However, one power car had to remain in the formation as the Class 91 could not provide ETH and aircon for the HST coaches. (The HST power cars were modified to emulate a Mark4 DVT to allow push-pull operation and, after some failures due to spending too long running at idle speed, were also used to augment the traction provided by the class 91, producing some very lively performance).

 

[pdeaves]

It is.

- Classified in the 2xx series
- two power cars working in multiple with a number of intermediate trailers
- coach designations are TS etc (i.e trailer standard) not SO etc
- the prototype unit was originally configured as locos-and-coaches, but modifications during the development programme led to the vehicles being renumbered and reclassified as a unit train because the heating/aircon circuits were not standard ETH connections, so the carriages could not take ETH/Aircon from anything other than an HST power car.
- The locos 41001 and 41002 became coaches 43000 and 43001 (no loco has a TOPS number ending 000 - locos D5000, D8000 and D9000 were renumbered 24005, 20050 and 55022 respectively) and the coaches were renumbered from the 1xxxx series (used for Mark 3 LHCS) to 4xxxx.

That HST trailers are not LHCS was illustrated when the Class 91s were first introduced. As their production was running ahead of that of Mark 4 coaching stock, some of them were put to work hauling HST sets. However, one power car had to remain in the formation as the Class 91 could not provide ETH and aircon for the HST coaches. (The HST power cars were modified to emulate a Mark4 DVT to allow push-pull operation and, after some failures due to spending too long running at idle speed, were also used to augment the traction provided by the class 91, producing some very lively performance).

I'm sure someone could write an equally convincing piece about how an HST is loco (class 43) and coaches (not numbered in DMU series). It's an anomaly that doesn't really sit happily in either camp!

 

[class 9]

It is.

- Classified in the 2xx series
- two power cars working in multiple with a number of intermediate trailers
- coach designations are TS etc (i.e trailer standard) not SO etc
- the prototype unit was originally configured as locos-and-coaches, but modifications during the development programme led to the vehicles being renumbered and reclassified as a unit train because the heating/aircon circuits were not standard ETH connections, so the carriages could not take ETH/Aircon from anything other than an HST power car.
- The locos 41001 and 41002 became coaches 43000 and 43001 (no loco has a TOPS number ending 000 - locos D5000, D8000 and D9000 were renumbered 24005, 20050 and 55022 respectively) and the coaches were renumbered from the 1xxxx series (used for Mark 3 LHCS) to 4xxxx.

That HST trailers are not LHCS was illustrated when the Class 91s were first introduced. As their production was running ahead of that of Mark 4 coaching stock, some of them were put to work hauling HST sets. However, one power car had to remain in the formation as the Class 91 could not provide ETH and aircon for the HST coaches. (The HST power cars were modified to emulate a Mark4 DVT to allow push-pull operation and, after some failures due to spending too long running at idle speed, were also used to augment the traction provided by the class 91, producing some very lively performance).

The fact that 2 sets cannot be coupled together and be controlled by 1 Driver means they ain't a multiple unit.

 

[imagination]

That, if you miss your stop or get on the wrong train, the train is going to turn around and go back again for you. And the way to signal that this needs to be done is to kick the door a few times, or push the button to open the door while the train is moving.

 

[43096]

It is.

- Classified in the 2xx series
- two power cars working in multiple with a number of intermediate trailers
- coach designations are TS etc (i.e trailer standard) not SO etc
- the prototype unit was originally configured as locos-and-coaches, but modifications during the development programme led to the vehicles being renumbered and reclassified as a unit train because the heating/aircon circuits were not standard ETH connections, so the carriages could not take ETH/Aircon from anything other than an HST power car.
- The locos 41001 and 41002 became coaches 43000 and 43001 (no loco has a TOPS number ending 000 - locos D5000, D8000 and D9000 were renumbered 24005, 20050 and 55022 respectively) and the coaches were renumbered from the 1xxxx series (used for Mark 3 LHCS) to 4xxxx.

That HST trailers are not LHCS was illustrated when the Class 91s were first introduced. As their production was running ahead of that of Mark 4 coaching stock, some of them were put to work hauling HST sets. However, one power car had to remain in the formation as the Class 91 could not provide ETH and aircon for the HST coaches. (The HST power cars were modified to emulate a Mark4 DVT to allow push-pull operation and, after some failures due to spending too long running at idle speed, were also used to augment the traction provided by the class 91, producing some very lively performance).

On the other hand....
- they haven't been classified in the 2xx series since the 1980s
- you can't multi two sets up, therefore they are not multiple units
- they are fully compatible with the standard two-pipe air brake
- the power cars were overhauled from new until the late 1980s by Derby Locomotive Works
- the power car maintenance regime has been similar to locomotives since new (Light/Intermediate/General, then E/F/G exam after CEM was implemented), rather than the unit regime (C4/C3/C2/C1).
- no idea why having a different electrical system makes any difference. LHCS has different sorts of brakes (vacuum or air) and different heating (steam or ~1000V DC/AC), so another heating type isn't really a reason.

What they are classified as doesn't matter except to trainspotters who need to pigeon hole things and can't cope with something that doesn't fit the "standard". In reality they're HSTs, and therefore superior to all other traction!

 

[trainophile]

That the Quiet coach is the best one for your two-year-old toddlers, and that if they start kicking off it's okay to ignore them and let them get on with it.

(Expecting this one to be controversial among the parents on here.)

 

[pdeaves]

Signals are like traffic lights, and 'naughty' drivers can take a risk and 'jump' them if they are so inclined to make up lost time.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

You can't use the train toilet while it's standing in a station

 

[PTR 444]

You can get out of buying a ticket by locking yourself inside the toilet for the entire journey

 

[py_megapixel]

You can avoid the guard by staying inside the toilet for the entire journey

I think the fallacy is more "It is legal not to pay the fare if you travel inside the toilet for the entire journey"

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I think the fallacy is more "It is legal not to pay the fare if you travel inside the toilet for the entire journey"

With half a dozen of your mates for company!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With half a dozen of your mates for company!

...and a mini motorbike (as once witnessed by my cousin on the Reading to Waterloo line)!

 

[Dai Corner]

With half a dozen of your mates for company!

Those modern accessible toilets must have been introduced for the benefit of larger groups!

 

[Ianno87]

You can't use the train toilet while it's standing in a station

It still feels weird flushing in a station, to me! Old habits and all that....

 

[43096]

That the Quiet coach is the best one for your two-year-old toddlers, and that if they start kicking off it's okay to ignore them and let them get on with it.

(Expecting this one to be controversial among the parents on here.)

Not controversial at all! As a starting point, it cannot be that difficult to simply block the reserving of seats in the quiet coach by any individual or group where there is a child ticket in the transaction.