TfW found to be worst TOC in the UK

[wobman]

Yes and the Liverpool to Chester service is operated by only one unit now that the frequency has been cut to at best, one train every 2 hours (due to covid!) and the last trains at night have been culled as well, despite the leisure market bouncing back better than commuter services.

Let's see what happens from December 12th regarding the increase in services, I agree the Liverpool route needs to return back to normal. I know they want to keep some of the services spare as they are needed for training on the 197s, as that is the first route for the new 197s to run on.

 

[Anonymous10]

Let's see what happens from December 12th regarding the increase in services, I agree the Liverpool route needs to return back to normal. I know they want to keep some of the services spare as they are needed for training on the 197s, as that is the first route for the new 197s to run on.

ill watch with bated breath Pembroke dock branch for instance is getting its late trains and trains to Swansea again requiring 4 units i believe but i dont hold my breath as to this working well

 

[Caaardiff]

No chance of any increased services next month. The fleet and train crew situation isn't in the right place to do it.

 

[Western 52]

ill watch with bated breath Pembroke dock branch for instance is getting its late trains and trains to Swansea again requiring 4 units i believe but i dont hold my breath as to this working well

No improvement in Pembroke trains on RTT yet for the new timetable but maybe too soon for them to appear on there. However there are class 3 ECS moves on weekdays Swansea to Carmarthen. Crew training I guess?

 

[Dai Corner]

Bristol? No TfW trains through Severn Tunnel at present.

There has been talk of a Swansea - Bristol service, ideal for 319s (even the converted 769s), but no wires down Filton Bank to Temple Meads.

It was the DfT that decided there were to be no TfW trains to Bristol. Lack of capacity pre-Filton requadrupling and East Junction remodelling was the reason given.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It was the DfT that decided there were to be no TfW trains to Bristol. Lack of capacity pre-Filton requadrupling and East Junction remodelling was the reason given.

They did promise to revisit that position when the upgrades around Bristol were finished, which they now are, sort-of.
But that was when Filton-Temple Meads was supposed to be wired (and Cardiff-Swansea).

I think it's fair to grumble about the transition from the old franchise to the new, but it was the franchise letting regime, not the incumbent operator, which crippled the rolling stock replacement options.
There was no prospect of varying the Arriva franchise terms, or of WG coughing up their own money for quicker replacement before franchise expiry.
Remember the money all comes in one form or another from Westminster, allocated via various transfer mechanisms to Cardiff Bay.
The Pacer exodus was posted several years in advance, and clashed with the TfW franchise replacement, but both governments chose to ignore it till it was too late for replacements to arrive before the Pacers had to go.
Northern was in a similar position a couple of years ago, but have turned things round with the new trains visibly improving the service.
TfW have to do the same over the next couple of years, but they are currently in about the worst place possible, resource-wise.
The key thing is getting the new trains out of the depots.

 

[Dai Corner]

They did promise to revisit that position when the upgrades around Bristol were finished, which they now are, sort-of.
But that was when Filton-Temple Meads was supposed to be wired (and Cardiff-Swansea).

I think it's fair to grumble about the transition from the old franchise to the new, but it was the franchise letting regime, not the incumbent operator, which crippled the rolling stock replacement options.
There was no prospect of varying the Arriva franchise terms, or of WG coughing up their own money for quicker replacement before franchise expiry.
Remember the money all comes in one form or another from Westminster, allocated via various transfer mechanisms to Cardiff Bay.
The Pacer exodus was posted several years in advance, and clashed with the TfW franchise replacement, but both governments chose to ignore it till it was too late for replacements to arrive before the Pacers had to go.
Northern was in a similar position a couple of years ago, but have turned things round with the new trains visibly improving the service.
TfW have to do the same over the next couple of years, but the are currently in about the worst place possible, resource-wise.
The key thing is getting the new trains out of the depots.

I seem to remember the former Welsh Transport Minister's standard response to any rolling stock question was that it was something the new franchise would have to address, seemingly oblivious to the fact that by the time the franchise was awarded it would be too late to order Pacer replacements for delivery before the Pacers were supposed to be withdrawn. He did order the 769s in conjunction with ATW though.

Aren't there at least as many 170 and 769 vehicles as there were Pacers? It's unfortunate that the former are under-utilised as they're only passed for Maesteg-Cheltenham via the main line and the Ebbw Vale branch and the latter have turned out to have such poor availability.

The Welsh Government has its own tax base. Not all it's income comes through Westminster. Land Transaction Tax, Landfill Tax and the as yet unused ability to increase Income Tax.

Let's hope the introduction of new stock goes as smoothly as possible and that there are sufficient passengers to fill them, particularly in the Valleys.

 

[Anonymous10]

No improvement in Pembroke trains on RTT yet for the new timetable but maybe too soon for them to appear on there. However there are class 3 ECS moves on weekdays Swansea to Carmarthen. Crew training I guess?

not sure was informed by the conductor they are restarting as to how much truth there is I don't know

 

[timothyw9]

One of the most infuriating excuses for TfW train cancellations or late running is

‘due to a lack of resource availability’

This meaningless phrase probably winds up many people and possibly influenced their answers in the YouGov survey!

Which correct me if I'm wrong, gets announced in England as "Due to a problem currently under investigation". At least it does at Man Picc.

 

[sefyllian]

This thread seems to be discussing something rather different to the survey itself.

There is nothing in the survey that says “TfW found to be worst TOC in the UK” – that’s an incorrect extrapolation.

The survey was about train services in general – the actual question asked was “How good or bad are the train services in your local area?”

Without a doubt, many people will have been thinking of recent poor service from TfW when they answered.

But I bet a fair amount won’t have been. One big clue is that the figure for rural Wales is much worse than urban areas (despite having the same operator).

Lots of rural Wales simply doesn’t have any “train services in your local area”. And many places that do only have very infrequent trains. So of course people will have responded negatively. Wales does have very poor train service, in general. Whether the trains we do have are late or overcrowded is a different issue.

Everyone here has jumped to the conclusion that this survey reflects badly on TfW, but it could just as well be a reflection of Wales’s geography, lack of investment over decades, Beeching, no electrification to Swansea, etc etc. It’s a very general question, probably answered in very general terms.

We simply don’t know what people were thinking about when they answered, so the data doesn’t support the thread title.

 

[timothyw9]

In my opinion they are a pretty terrible TOC. I live in Manchester but have family in North Wales.

The service prior to Covid wasn't great, but at least the trains ran from Manchester to the N.Wales Coast. Last time I used them, there was a 6 minute connection at Chester, the train from Manchester was 7 minutes late! The train I got off, sat at Chester for an hour and became the next Holyhead... I generally try and use Avanti instead where possible.

Working at Piccadilly, the amount of times I've heard the xx31 South Wales service being cancelled and turned round at Wilmslow or Crewe is laughable.

ATW wasn't perfect and admittedly it isn't all Keolis/WG's fault and will take time to fix, but frankly they have just made things much worse.

 

[Bikeman78]

Aren't there at least as many 170 and 769 vehicles as there were Pacers? It's unfortunate that the former are under-utilised as they're only passed for Maesteg-Cheltenham via the main line and the Ebbw Vale branch and the latter have turned out to have such poor availability.

Yes, there are 32 vehicles in each fleet (I'm ignoring the ninth class 769 as it hasn't arrived yet) as compared with 60 Pacer vehicles. However it's worth pointing out again that three months after the 170s were introduced the whole fleet of Pacers was still in service. Maybe the plan was to run them until lease end dates or until due major overhauls. We'll never know because Covid got in the way.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Whilst the headline may be misleading, I certainly can't disagree with it. Short formations and service cancelations at the last minute are daily occurrences on the valley lines at the moment - often hidden by TfW behind the meaningless "due to resource availability" phrasing. And of course this is after a year or so of having the local valley lines services slashed as part of the covid timetable (which may have been necessary but doesn't make passengers feel any better about it).

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Todays lunchtime TfW service from Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog turned out to be a National Express coach, due to "resource availability" they do seem very poor recently.

 

[Llandudno]

Todays lunchtime TfW service from Llandudno to Blaenau Ffestiniog turned out to be a National Express coach, due to "resource availability" they do seem very poor recently.

The late evening (sic) last train of the day 1627 Ex Llandudno was also operated by a bus!

There are only 4 Conwy Valley trains per day and TfW can’t even find ‘resources’ to operate such a meagre frequency!

 

[seagull]

I'm not sure that Conwy Valley buses are due to lack of staff or train availability, as the trains have been cancelled all week, and on Tuesday the reason given was line closed following storm Arwen.
So I don't know.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I'm not sure that Conwy Valley buses are due to lack of staff or train availability, as the trains have been cancelled all week, and on Tuesday the reason given was line closed following storm Arwen.
So I don't know.

Nope not the reason given. And it was a national express coach as replacement

 

[WelshBluebird]

A fair few valley lines services cancelled tonight including the last Merthyr service which I imagine will lead to fun trying to sort out taxis for the drunks. Of course which leads to the point that it isn't just passengers TfW are failing here, its their own staff too. I'm sure the station staff at Cardiff Central or Pontypridd aren't exactly pleased with having to deal with getting taxis for people due to last trains being cancelled as often as they are being at the moment.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It appears today, due to resource unavailability, there is no service on the Coryton line all day, and the Cardiff Bay branch will not be served until 19:00. No rail replacement.

 

[TravelDream]

It appears today, due to resource unavailability, there is no service on the Coryton line all day, and the Cardiff Bay branch will not be served until 19:00. No rail replacement.

You need a fair bit of time to read through today's cancellations and 'other updates'.

Transport for Wales JourneyCheck - Train times and live real time delay/cancellation/disruption information.

Transport for Wales JourneyCheck provides real time, up-to-date train times and train disruption information keeping you informed about any delays or cancellations on the network and helping you know what to do when your journey is affected. Train Cancellations, Delays, Alterations and...

www.journeycheck.com

TBF, it is a bit easier to cancel trains in Cardiff than elsewhere in the Valleys as they only have to work with one bus operator for ticket acceptance and that operator has regular buses that almost mirror the rail routes. Like the Baycar and the Butetown Branch - https://www.cardiffbus.com/services...KMXaZ5otQuniVPliBS_M-1638617309-0-gaNycGzNCFE
Cancelling trains north of Cardiff would require arranging replacement buses.

 

[Cardiff123]

It really is time for TfW to put out a public statement with a detailed explanation as to why they cannot provide a reliable rail service at the moment, or as it seems today, barely any service at all on the most populated part of the network in Cardiff, the VoG and the Valleys.
There's no point in putting out news stories about shiny new 'transformative' trains if at the same time, on the lines those trains are going to serve, you're currently cancelling nearly all services, hiding behind meaningless jargon like "severe resource availability" issues.
Someone from TfW management needs to put out a statement explaining to the public why services are so dire right now and what, if anything, they are doing about it. Otherwise passengers could desert the railway now and never come back.

 

[WelshBluebird]

So more cancellations announced for tomorrow. So for me practically that means a 3 hour gap in services which I can only describe as unacceptable. And talking to friends in the pub in Cardiff right now and it's passed even being a serious concern - its just a massive joke.

Cancelling trains north of Cardiff would require arranging replacement buses.

Or more accurately it requires them to just not bother with anything and leave passengers to fend for themselves. Given that's basically what is happening. At least at Cardiff there's staff to find who maybe if you are lucky can get a taxi for you. If you are up the valleys at an unammned station you are let's say up the stream without a paddle!

 

[Cardiff123]

So more cancellations announced for tomorrow. So for me practically that means a 3 hour gap in services which I can only describe as unacceptable. And talking to friends in the pub in Cardiff right now and it's passed even being a serious concern - its just a massive joke.

As I said, a public statement is urgently needed. Instead, TfW public communications just seem to be ignoring the current crisis and hiding behind "resource availability" on journey check and twitter. It's woeful and not how you keep hold of customers.

 

[redengine]

Yep, definitely an operator to avoid. GWR has its problems. Before the pandemic, GWR turning alternate trains at Cardiff during the afternoon peak (when Cardiff's commuter pattern trends heavily westward, thanks to housing being relatively overpriced east of Cardiff) and then putting 5-car half trains on the Swanseas was a major issue. But even 5 carriages was a sensible full and standing level of service, even though it had the effect of destroying First Class being nice.

Then TfW pull up with a 2-car 175 (or worse) to run between Cardiff and Swansea. That doesn't even count as a train. Its existence can just be ignored. The Main Line should basically have a floor of 6-carriage sets, preferably 8-10. It serves five of the top six busiest stations in Wales (Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Neath, and Swansea; the sixth, Cardiff Queen Street, is within walking distance).

With how demand has shifted due to the pandemic, the railway should be looking at reducing SWR's 455s to 2-car sets (Waterloo is not the commuter destination it once was, now that rich people from Surrey can WFH) and moving the middle carriages to strengthen TfW's 150s to 4 carriages. Then TfW need to properly reallocate resources from the Valleys to the Main Line. Cardiff Bay Station alone has seen a 94% fall in ridership. Generally the Valleys have done extremely badly, with the exceptions of the Barry stations and Pontypridd. There is certainly no need to be shuttling quarter hourly fresh air between Cardiff and Penarth.

 

[Dai Corner]

As I said, a public statement is urgently needed. Instead, TfW public communications just seem to be ignoring the current crisis and hiding behind "resource availability" on journey check and twitter. It's woeful and not how you keep hold of customers.

I guess at last part of the trouble is that there's no penalty for cancelling trains like there was in the privatised era. The stereotypical Saturday night drunk passenger probably isn't one that they want to keep hold of anyway.

 

[mrd269697]

Why are they so bad? Why are they struggling so much more than other TOCS? They have some great plans, but can’t even run a reduced service now. And to think the Bidston - Wrexham’s are supposed to be going half hourly in May. When pigs fly!

 

[wobman]

There are no spare units sitting around unfortunately and the staff are working overtime trying to keep things running. Keeping a reduced timetable is the best option until the new trains and new staff are all available.
Staff have retired and left but there replacements are still In training due to covid, tfw are having a huge recruitment drive and have fleets of new trains onnthe way.

 

[Cardiff123]

There are no spare units sitting around unfortunately and the staff are working overtime trying to keep things running. Keeping a reduced timetable is the best option until the new trains and new staff are all available.
Staff have retired and left but there replacements are still In training due to covid, tfw are having a huge recruitment drive and have fleets of new trains onnthe way.

If this is the explanation for the current train crew shortage leading to the mass cancellations, why aren't TfW explaining this to the public?

 

[wobman]

If this is the explanation for the current train crew shortage leading to the mass cancellations, why aren't TfW explaining this to the public?

It's a very complicated problem, saying resource availability is far easier.

 

[WelshBluebird]

So tonight in addition to the other cancellations they have cancelled the last Merthyr, Gloucester, Radyr, Pontypridd and Barry services. Oh and that's the second night in a row the last Merthyr train has been cancelled. I mean there's bad and then there's this!

I can't be the only person thinking how on earth can they hope to run a 4 train per head of the valley service in 2 years time when they can't even run an 1 train an hour service right now. Where are the staff going to come from?

It's a very complicated problem, saying resource availability is far easier.

I mean it's either we don't have enough staff or we don't have enough trains. Or both. It isnt that complicated.