Sweden: SJ, DSB and RDC to operate Stockholm-Hamburg EuroNight from August 2022

[Roast Veg]

If true, those times are very favourable indeed.

 

[30907]

You can't please everyone with a single service - I'd posit that if there's a market for this then it ought to be a distinct service running at a later arrival time into Copenhagen.

Which is exactly what was proposed, but AIUI no operator bid for it.

On another note - how useful is this service to British travellers to Sweden? Can Hamburg be accessed from more than just London in a day when Eurostar is running a full timetable?

0413 into Malmo suggests 2240 at the very latest from Hamburg Hbf, which is comfortable from my home in Shipley

 

[DanielB]

I prefer to use the Stena Line ferry from Hoek to Harwich, because it gets my closer to where I usually want to be in East Anglia. You can also travel Schiedam - Amsterdam - Osnabrück - Hamburg easily in a day.

That's quite a detour: Schiedam - Rotterdam - Amersfoort - Osnabrück is almost an hour faster, only making it easier to complete the trip within a day. (And staying in the metro till Rotterdam Alexander and changing there for Amersfoort takes a few more minutes off the travel time.

 

[30907]

That's quite a detour: Schiedam - Rotterdam - Amersfoort - Osnabrück is almost an hour faster, only making it easier to complete the trip within a day. (And staying in the metro till Rotterdam Alexander and changing there for Amersfoort takes a few more minutes off the travel time.

True, but coming off the ferry and heading for Hamburg it makes little difference (apart from an extra change).
Thanks for the tip about R-Alexander.

 

[JonasB]

If EN 496 is specifically timetabled to connect with EC 8 (from Zurich, via Cologne), then the combined through route from London to Helsinki and Tallinn can actually be shortened by about 12 hours - quite a big deal!

If I'm not mistaken, and The Man in Seat 61 is correct, the trip from London to Tallinn can be shortened by 24 hours.

 

[Roast Veg]

I typ

If I'm not mistaken, and The Man in Seat 61 is correct, the trip from London to Tallinn can be shortened by 24 hours.

I was going to say 24, but then couldn't verify it. Are there no good connecting Helsinki ferries?

 

[StephenHunter]

The Seat 61 route is Stockholm-Tallinn.

 

[JonasB]

I typ
I was going to say 24, but then couldn't verify it. Are there no good connecting Helsinki ferries?

I just looked at the recommended route from Seat 61:

Today:
Day 1: London-Hamburg, spend a night in Hamburg.
Day 2: Hamburg-Stockholm, spend a night in Stockholm.
Day 3: Spend a day in Stockholm, overnight ferry to Tallinn.

Next year:
Day 1: London-Hamburg, overnight train to Stockholm.
Day 2: Spend a day in Stockholm, overnight ferry to Tallinn.

I guess you could shorten the route today by taking a day ferry to Finland, but you would need to spend a night in Finland as you will not be able to catch the last ferry to Tallinn. And while the first morning ferry from Finland might give you an earlier arrival in Tallin compared to the overnight ferry from Stockholm it is a more cumbersome route.

 

[Gloster]

A Danish site is giving 17.30 Stockholm, 22.50 Malmö, 23.20 Copenhagen Airport, 23.50 Copenhagen H., 06.40 (08.40 Saturdays) Hamburg. Northbound: 21.50 Hamburg, 03.20 Copenhagen H., 03.50 Copenhagen Airport, 04.20 Malmö, 09.50 Stockholm. From jernbanen.dk site, but their poster’s source does not look official, although I can’t get it to download.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I just looked at the recommended route from Seat 61:

Today:
Day 1: London-Hamburg, spend a night in Hamburg.
Day 2: Hamburg-Stockholm, spend a night in Stockholm.
Day 3: Spend a day in Stockholm, overnight ferry to Tallinn.

Next year:
Day 1: London-Hamburg, overnight train to Stockholm.
Day 2: Spend a day in Stockholm, overnight ferry to Tallinn.

I guess you could shorten the route today by taking a day ferry to Finland, but you would need to spend a night in Finland as you will not be able to catch the last ferry to Tallinn. And while the first morning ferry from Finland might give you an earlier arrival in Tallin compared to the overnight ferry from Stockholm it is a more cumbersome route.

In the not-too-distant future, the London-Tallinn trip should be do-able in a day-night-day with no ferries involved.

London-Berlin by day. Berlin-Warsaw overnight ... once they reinstate a regular sleeper on this route ... surely, in the current climate, they will before long? And then, once the new Rail Baltica speedy(ish) line is open from Poland through the Baltic states to Tallinn, on to Tallinn on the second day. (It's frustrating that the through trains Tallinn-Riga-Vilnius-Warsaw, which had run for generations, were axed years ago; slow and clunky, yes, but an extremely convenient direct link. Better to have kept that running in the interim, until the promised new link was built - the latter is a long time coming.)

 

[jamesontheroad]

A Danish site is giving 17.30 Stockholm, 22.50 Malmö, 23.20 Copenhagen Airport, 23.50 Copenhagen H., 06.40 (08.40 Saturdays) Hamburg. Northbound: 21.50 Hamburg, 03.20 Copenhagen H., 03.50 Copenhagen Airport, 04.20 Malmö, 09.50 Stockholm. From jernbanen.dk site, but their poster’s source does not look official, although I can’t get it to download.

These times are the same as SJ presented earlier this year as their tentative / desired timetable in this presentation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v_YM_GBqHtdZM5xhGHzlLriGUQ20TaKX/view

These will probably change only very slightly, but they are probably reliable estimations for us to work with for now.

 

[30907]

These times are the same as SJ presented earlier this year as their tentative / desired timetable in this presentation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v_YM_GBqHtdZM5xhGHzlLriGUQ20TaKX/view

Small detail: they show the delayed arrival in Hamburg as Sunday morning it Saturday morning (which makes sense as it's for engineering works on the direct route in Germany IIRC - eg Rendsburg High Level Bridge).

 

[JonasB]

Maybe there is a bit of hope for the Malmö-Brussels sleeper? The Belgian government has announced that they plan to subsidize international night trains to Belgium. https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgi...-in-night-trains-to-create-international-hub/

 

[JonasB]

I'm not sure when we'll see the complete end-to-end schedule, but I guess it'll be whenever the German railways confirm their times for summer 2022.

The train can now be found at www.bahn.de so now we can see the complete schedule.

Southbound:
Stockholm C ab 17:34
Norrköping ab 18:57
Linköping ab 19:25
Nässjö ab 20:23
Alvesta ab 21:04
Hässleholm ab 21:50
Lund ab 22:22
Malmö ab 23:37
Koebenhavns Lufthavn ab 23:59
Koebenhavn H ab 00:40
Odense ab 02:02
Padborg ab 03:25
Hamburg-Altona an 07:37

Northbound:
Hamburg-Altona ab 21:49
Padborg ab 00:30
Odense ab 01:55
Koebenhavn H ab 03:32
Koebenhavns Lufthavn ab 03:49
Malmö ab 04:23
Lund ab 04:38
Hässleholm ab 05:15
Alvesta ab 06:02
Nässjö ab 06:44
Linköping ab 07:48
Norrköping ab 08:15
Stockholm an 09:54

 

[jamesontheroad]

The train can now be found at www.bahn.de so now we can see the complete schedule.

Southbound:
Stockholm C ab 17:34
Norrköping ab 18:57
Linköping ab 19:25
Nässjö ab 20:23
Alvesta ab 21:04
Hässleholm ab 21:50
Lund ab 22:22
Malmö ab 23:37
Koebenhavns Lufthavn ab 23:59
Koebenhavn H ab 00:40
Odense ab 02:02
Padborg ab 03:25
Hamburg-Altona an 07:37

Northbound:
Hamburg-Altona ab 21:49
Padborg ab 00:30
Odense ab 01:55
Koebenhavn H ab 03:32
Koebenhavns Lufthavn ab 03:49
Malmö ab 04:23
Lund ab 04:38
Hässleholm ab 05:15
Alvesta ab 06:02
Nässjö ab 06:44
Linköping ab 07:48
Norrköping ab 08:15
Stockholm an 09:54

Thanks for posting these. So the train will bypass Hamburg Hbf? That solves the problem of congestion in Hamburg, but is disappointing in terms of the quality of the connection experience. (See my earlier comment about the fine food court at Hamburg Altona!).

 

[Roast Veg]

Thanks for posting these. So the train will bypass Hamburg Hbf? That solves the problem of congestion in Hamburg, but is disappointing in terms of the quality of the connection experience. (See my earlier comment about the fine food court at Hamburg Altona!).

I think this is broadly acceptable for a sleeper, since most people will have time to kill in the afternoon before getting to Altona anyway. the 07:37 arrival leaves plenty of time in the morning as well.

As previously discussed, the Stockholm end does not fare so well, with such an early start and such a late arrival.

 

[jamesontheroad]

As previously discussed, the Stockholm end does not fare so well, with such an early start and such a late arrival.

With the greatest of respect to my fellow countrymen, most Swedes tend to clock off work around 16.00, so it's probably not as limiting as it would be in the UK!

 

[Roast Veg]

With the greatest of respect to my fellow countrymen, most Swedes tend to clock off work around 16.00, so it's probably not as limiting as it would be in the UK!

And the 10am arrival time?

 

[JonasB]

Thanks for posting these. So the train will bypass Hamburg Hbf? That solves the problem of congestion in Hamburg, but is disappointing in terms of the quality of the connection experience. (See my earlier comment about the fine food court at Hamburg Altona!).

It certainly seems that way. I agree that Hbf would be a lot better, but there is still a decent amount of connections available at Altona without taking the S-Bahn to Hbf (or somewhere else).

As previously discussed, the Stockholm end does not fare so well, with such an early start and such a late arrival.

True, but it means it stops in Linköping and Norrköping (combined population ca 300,000) at reasonable times which is probably also part of the equation.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The choice of the WLAB32 is interesting... I believe those are originally CIWL built!

Mid to late 1950's (?) build with late 1980s or 1990s (?) internal reconfiguration, and hopefully some refurbishment since then.
My guess would be in a market with limited supply this is what is readily available, and at the right price.

 

[Cloud Strife]

In the not-too-distant future, the London-Tallinn trip should be do-able in a day-night-day with no ferries involved.

London-Berlin by day. Berlin-Warsaw overnight ... once they reinstate a regular sleeper on this route ... surely, in the current climate, they will before long? And then, once the new Rail Baltica speedy(ish) line is open from Poland through the Baltic states to Tallinn, on to Tallinn on the second day. (It's frustrating that the through trains Tallinn-Riga-Vilnius-Warsaw, which had run for generations, were axed years ago; slow and clunky, yes, but an extremely convenient direct link. Better to have kept that running in the interim, until the promised new link was built - the latter is a long time coming.)

Berlin-Warsaw doesn't actually have that much traffic. There's only the daytime trains and three LOT flights a day (two Dash-8, one Embraer), whereas there's five flights to Frankfurt with bigger planes (A319/A320 and Embraer 190s). The trains also include a lot of traffic between Poznań and the two capitals.

The problem with the Jan Kiepura was that the German side was incredibly unreliable.

 

[StephenHunter]

Mid to late 1950's (?) build with late 1980s or 1990s (?) internal reconfiguration, and hopefully some refurbishment since then.
My guess would be in a market with limited supply this is what is readily available, and at the right price.

Italy's ordered 70 new night train carriages, which will free up some MUs, I believe.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Booking open from today, first departure from Stockholm 1 September 2022.

Go to www.sj.se and remember to search for Hamburg-Altona not Hamburg Hbf.

2nd class seats, 2nd class couchettes (6-berth) and sleepers (4-berth) and 1st class sleepers (2-berth).

 

[rvdborgt]

2nd class seats, 2nd class couchettes (6-berth) and sleepers (4-berth) and 1st class sleepers (2-berth).

Interesting - any idea what type of sleeper coaches they have?

 

[StephenHunter]

RDC Asset GmbH

Die RDC Asset GmbH ist im Norden der führende Schienenfahrzeug-Vermieter, insbesondere im Bereich Nachtzug mit bester Kompetenz für Full-Service aus einer Hand. Gegründet wurde das Unternehmen 2019 in Hamburg.

www.rdc-deutschland.de

MUn and AB33, but the latter are on the Zurich-Amsterdam Nightjet.

 

[rvdborgt]

MUn and AB33, but the latter are on the Zurich-Amsterdam Nightjet.

These coaches just have the standard 3-bed compartments (not that there's anything wrong with them) and only the MUn has one compartment with 2 double beds.
So it's a bit strange that they say they have 4-berth sleepers and 1st class 2-berth sleepers.

 

[30907]

These coaches just have the standard 3-bed compartments (not that there's anything wrong with them) and only the MUn has one compartment with 2 double beds.
So it's a bit strange that they say they have 4-berth sleepers and 1st class 2-berth sleepers.

Other sources say AB32s ex T2S which are lovely in DeLuxe but I believe tight in 2nd, and all 2-berth compartments. 4-berth using connecting door, presumably?

 

[StephenHunter]

Yes, it is AB32. What are the arrangements for that then? 16x2-berth?

 

[jamesontheroad]

A source on the Postvagnen (Swedish forum) says the carriages are being brought to Sweden today. Exterior photos will no doubt follow soon.

 

[Tagmastare]

Yes, it is AB32. What are the arrangements for that then? 16x2-berth?

The cars that will be used is old ÖBB 75-71 https://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/A/OeBB_WLABmz-7571-4.php?lang=en

They have 13 compartments för 2 persons, and 2 compartment (1st class) for 3 persons.