Caledonian Sleeper

[50002Superb]

Engineering work preventing use of the normal route on the WCML. It'll occur again on six weekends in April and May.

Good to know, thank you.

Do you know which weekends they will be?

 

[JonathanH]

Good to know, thank you.

Do you know which weekends they will be?

Yes, posted upthread in message 11,969 - first weekend in April and the following five weekends.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper.176365/page-399#post-5468509

 

[50002Superb]

Yes, posted upthread in message 11,969 - first weekend in April and the following five weekends.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper.176365/page-399#post-5468509

Great, thanks

 

[ajrm]

When was the name "Caledonian Sleeper" first used?

It was introduced as a brand name by the ScotRail shadow franchise... 4 June 1996 if Wikipedia is correct.

 

[zero]

CS is supposedly not operating as the early morning service from Glasgow to Fort William until the end of the current timetable.

If I booked a room to Dalmuir and then had a separate ticket to FTW would they say that it's not valid?

Strictly speaking I would expect to have to vacate the room after Dalmuir, but given that nobody else can be occupying it anyway I wonder if they would turn a blind eye?

 

[GordonT]

Financial results 2020-2021 for CS available at https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC477821/filing-history

 

[Cheshire Scot]

CS is supposedly not operating as the early morning service from Glasgow to Fort William until the end of the current timetable.

If I booked a room to Dalmuir and then had a separate ticket to FTW would they say that it's not valid?

Strictly speaking I would expect to have to vacate the room after Dalmuir, but given that nobody else can be occupying it anyway I wonder if they would turn a blind eye?

Why not just book a room to FW and if you want to move into lounge or seated coach at Dalmuir (or Dumbarton) assuming you want to be seated for better windows to admire scenery? Yes seated places are limited but it may not be fully booked or someone may have vacated a seat.

 

[paul1609]

Why not just book a room to FW and if you want to move into lounge or seated coach at Dalmuir (or Dumbarton) assuming you want to be seated for better windows to admire scenery? Yes seated places are limited but it may not be fully booked or someone may have vacated a seat.

additionally bear in mind that sunrise in Crianlarich this morning was 08.51 over an hour after the Northbound sleeper left. For scenery during the winter months you are better off on day trains or the Citylink bus.

 

[zero]

Why not just book a room to FW and if you want to move into lounge or seated coach at Dalmuir (or Dumbarton) assuming you want to be seated for better windows to admire scenery? Yes seated places are limited but it may not be fully booked or someone may have vacated a seat.

Because a return from Glasgow to Fort William is only £31.60, but a room is £40 more to FTW than to Dalmuir and I'd still need to buy the return anyway (as it's cheaper than a single).

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Because a return from Glasgow to Fort William is only £31.60, but a room is £40 more to FTW than to Dalmuir and I'd still need to buy the return anyway (as it's cheaper than a single).

That is interesting as an earlier poster indicated a room cost the same from Crewe as from London (158 miles difference) and I therefore assumed similar charging would apply at the Scottish end (in this case around 100 miles difference), but obviously not, apologies. I am not at all familiar with the Caley Sleeper charging regime, hence your logic now sense to me, but does really leave you at the mercy of the on train staff, unless someone else can advise. Anyway, i wish you well and hope you enjoy the trip when it happens.

 

[paul1609]

Ive got off the sleeper from London at Dalmuir a few times when my ship was in dry dock down the Clyde. It worked out ok for me as one of my colleagues lived in Clydebank and could pick me up. Ive never seen another berth passenger get on or off there or at Garelochead either come to that.

 

[D6130]

Ive got off the sleeper from London at Dalmuir a few times when my ship was in dry dock down the Clyde. It worked out ok for me as one of my colleagues lived in Clydebank and could pick me up. Ive never seen another berth passenger get on or off there or at Garelochead either come to that.

Back in the day (1960s-70s) loads of Naval Officers used to alight from the sleeper at both Helensburgh Upper and Garelochhead.....and of course, they would get on there heading Southbound on leave.

 

[zero]

People actually going to Dalmuir might prefer the timings of the lowlander.

It's only a problem officially because they're saying they won't take passengers boarding from Glasgow onwards, otherwise they would even sell the local tickets on the train. But are they really going to kick me onto the platform at 6am to wait 3 hours.... If I have covid I would be giving it to more people on the next train.

Anyway I would be doing this in April as I have a business trip to Glasgow, maybe it will change to late May and avoid this problem altogether

 

[BRX]

Have CS upped seated prices globally?

I was just looking at prices to Inverness and a seated single seems to be fairly consistently £75.

I'm fairly sure the last time I went in the seats (which would have been pre the new stock) it costed £40 or £50.

 

[JonathanH]

Have CS upped seated prices globally?

I was just looking at prices to Inverness and a seated single seems to be fairly consistently £75.

I'm fairly sure the last time I went in the seats (which would have been pre the new stock) it costed £40 or £50.

It is a £2 increase from recent prices. Note that there is still reduced accommodation in the seated coach.

 

[paul1609]

Back in the day (1960s-70s) loads of Naval Officers used to alight from the sleeper at both Helensburgh Upper and Garelochhead.....and of course, they would get on there heading Southbound on leave.

Did the sleeper call at Shandon prior to its closure in 1964? It was by far the closest station to the naval base. The modern naval accommodation is built on the site of Shandon House

 

[D6130]

Did the sleeper call at Shandon prior to its closure in 1964? It was by far the closest station to the naval base. The modern naval accommodation is built on the site of Shandon House

No....Shandon was only served by the Craigendoran-Arrochar local service, operated by steam push-pull trains until 1960 and then diesel railbuses until closure in 1964. As far as I'm aware, the sleeper has only ever called at Dumbarton Central, Helensburgh Upper, Garelochhead and Arrochar in that area....except possibly for the occasional out-of-course train crossings. Ironically, Shandon retained its signalbox and crossing loop for a futher three years after closure and had the station been retained, it probably would have had a healthy traffic to and from the ever-expanding naval base.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Did the sleeper call at Shandon prior to its closure in 1964? It was by far the closest station to the naval base. The modern naval accommodation is built on the site of Shandon House

There was a huge housing development in Helensburgh provided specifically for naval families - the Churchill estate, whilst other lived in the surrounding areas including Garelochhead, with naval traffic using the sleeper to/from at both stations
I think having extensive accommodation on the base was a later development.

 

[GordonT]

No....Shandon was only served by the Craigendoran-Arrochar local service, operated by steam push-pull trains until 1960 and then diesel railbuses until closure in 1964. As far as I'm aware, the sleeper has only ever called at Dumbarton Central, Helensburgh Upper, Garelochhead and Arrochar in that area....except possibly for the occasional out-of-course train crossings. Ironically, Shandon retained its signalbox and crossing loop for a futher three years after closure and had the station been retained, it probably would have had a healthy traffic to and from the ever-expanding naval base.

That's my recollection also regarding the stations served by the sleeper (to/from Kings Cross in those days of course).

 

[Gathursty]

Earlier in the thread, it was mentioned that fewer people get on the Sleeper at Crewe. I'm nearer to and have used the Sleeper from Preston. Does the Sleeper have many passengers from/to Preston?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Earlier in the thread, it was mentioned that fewer people get on the Sleeper at Crewe. I'm nearer to and have used the Sleeper from Preston. Does the Sleeper have many passengers from/to Preston?

I think the perception was Crewe generated more passengers than Preston. Further feedback will inform.

Crewe has larger catchment area including the West Midlands, Potteries & towards Derby etc, Shropshire (and further south), and most of Cheshire, North Wales.
Preston - Manchester, Liverpool (although both arguably worth the modest extra cost to go via Crewe for less unsociable times) plus Lancashire.

Living just outside the Greater Manchester boundary I would always favour Crewe rather than Preston.

 

[alistairlees]

Crewe is busier than Preston

 

[najaB]

Does the Sleeper have many passengers from/to Preston?

I did it a couple of times heading south, I was the only person alighting on both occasions.

 

[Roast Veg]

Crewe has larger catchment area including the West Midlands, Potteries & towards Derby etc, Shropshire (and further south), and most of Cheshire, North Wales.
Preston - Manchester, Liverpool (although both arguably worth the modest extra cost to go via Crewe for less unsociable times) plus Lancashire.

Theoretically Preston also has Yorkshire.

 

[Gathursty]

I meant fewer people get on at Crewe than London not than Preston.

I understand departing at a not too late time. I'd just never consider going South to go North so take a later time at Preston than an earlier departure at Crewe.

 

[xotGD]

Theoretically Preston also has Yorkshire.

Yes, I have once taken the last train from Leeds across to Preston to fester for the northbound Highlander. I'm not sure how many normals would entertain such a move.

 

[Roast Veg]

Yes, I have once taken the last train from Leeds across to Preston to fester for the northbound Highlander. I'm not sure how many normals would entertain such a move.

Festering for less than an hour at Preston saves you 6 hours at Fort William and 7 at Inverness - depends on your priorities.

 

[peteb]

Festering for less than an hour at Preston saves you 6 hours at Fort William and 7 at Inverness - depends on your priorities.

Talking of festering, is Crewe still really dark, lonely and creepy at 2330 at night? We took the sleeper to Inverness from there once, having travelled by train from Birmingham. The pub was shut and there was hardly anywhere to wait let alone any snack facilities. It was a relief when the northbound sleeper arrived (early) and we could get in for a warm-up!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes, I have once taken the last train from Leeds across to Preston to fester for the northbound Highlander. I'm not sure how many normals would entertain such a move.

Waiting room at Preston isnt too bad. Nice and warm usually.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Any idea what happened to Monday's Southbound from Inverness??

Ran empty as 5M16 to join up with the other portions from Edinburgh.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:93763/2021-12-27/detailed#allox_id=0

Empty from Inverness to Polmadie via Edinburgh for the set to to be dried out.

Set sat in a siding for three nights of sub zero temperatures and had not been drained down - was this an oversight or does modern stock not have drain cocks?
Guess what, the water froze in the tanks.

Connected to ETS on 27/12, thawing commenced and resulted in sodden carpets - and some bedding too!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2022 ==

Talking of festering, is Crewe still really dark, lonely and creepy at 2330 at night? We took the sleeper to Inverness from there once, having travelled by train from Birmingham. The pub was shut and there was hardly anywhere to wait let alone any snack facilities. It was a relief when the northbound sleeper arrived (early) and we could get in for a warm-up!

When the buffet closed they used to keep the waiting area open - but still not the most pleasant place to wait.