Peregrine 4903
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That was always the plan. Weekends were never going to be altered nor the service reduced at weekends full stop.
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GTR cancellations including not operating from Victoria until 10th Jan
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Surreytraveller
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Always the plan? Didn't think there was a plan. Just a complete shambles
Just a comment from Brighton regarding train formation (and apologies if someone has already mentioned this).
At least one East Coastway diagram is being worked by a 377/3. If this is a foretaste of things to come, I would regard it as a really positive development in terms of the replacement of 313s. They are classy units, not least because of their “mainline” 2+2 seating.
At least one East Coastway diagram is being worked by a 377/3. If this is a foretaste of things to come, I would regard it as a really positive development in terms of the replacement of 313s. They are classy units, not least because of their “mainline” 2+2 seating.
So if they hadn't needed to alter the week day timetables following the engineering works, finishing they could have done what they are doing at the weekends?
But is a East Coastway diagram really a "mainline" service? There's a fair number of stops at relatively small distances with relatively small passenger numbers and shorter distances. I don't disagree than 313s are getting rather awful, and a 377 (of some description) is suitable but this might be a brief reprieve only before going back to their more standard routes.
Much like when the CIG's replaced the CAP's.
Class 466
Established Member
377/3s won’t end up on the coastway, 313s represent a capacity issue as it is - I’d expect any replacement would be 4 coaches rather than 3.
Is that how the DfT will see it? Will they not want to replace the 313s carriage for carriage regardless of the capacity issues?
Class 466
Established Member
I’d imagine it would come down to using what’s spare. 377/3s are one of the things that definitely aren’t sitting spare. (Granted they probably are in this weeks timetable).
Interesting that they are happy to help out one of the top private day schools in London
They haven’t added any extra services to Reigate to help the 1,500 college students there
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Total chaos at East Croydon at present you’d have thought that when they were running a skeleton service they might make it run on time
Yes, depends on whether there is a continued need for 10-car trains in the London area or whether 8-car trains will do, although I note that a desire for fewer longer trains may trump that for running trains of the same length.
Pretty sure they don't all come by train (or indeed all from North of Redhill).
Clapham Junction in-between platforms 13 and 14 was this summery departure screen. I thought it worth photographing as it must be exceptionally rare to see please enquire against every station bar 1, East Croydon. That 1 train to East Croydon is now delayed by 10 minutes due to a signalling fault. Fortunately, I don't need to catch it.
The image is sideways because the forum doesn't read the rotation info in the photo.
The image is sideways because the forum doesn't read the rotation info in the photo.
No but many do & some of those who come from South by Train also need to get train to Reigate,
Actual service has been more than halved with 2ph instead of 4ph with the 2ph cut 4 coaches with the remainder 3 coaches
College have sales about the possibility of extra services but told absolutely no way.
Class800
Established Member
The image is in the correct orientation when I click on it to expand
Class 466
Established Member
You can’t predict major disruption due to a signalling failure. That doesn’t have anything to do with the effectiveness of a timetable.
If that were the motive, you would expect a couple of extra trains morning and afternoon, not a half hourly service all day. As already stated, it's to keep them out of the way at ECR.
Yes a major signalling issue at Honor Oak with multiple track circuit failures on all lines. Overground and Thameslink have also been significantly affected. Emergency special working in place, so diverting to Victoria would be a very sensible option (crew dependent)
Having been very critical of GTR service have to praise the driver of my train, wasn’t aware that we were being diverted by Streatham Common and Elephant & Castle until left East Croydon, managed to get a stop added at Elephant to help those who wanted London Bridge
Nicholas Lewis
On Moderation
What Southern ML crew don't know Victoria its the core route. Anyhow a few have been diverted already so services returned by stealth and good to see TLK crews retaining route knowledge to run via the Hills
Was more suggesting any impacts to knock on services from cross-working. That being said if EVERYTHING diverted inwards, then there'd be no worry!
Capvermell
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Trains are running to Victoria today from Horsham via Dorking and Epsom but won't be again from Monday to Friday next week when they will again be diverted in to London Bridge all week and also only running during Saturday service operating hours apart from an additional service to London Bridge from Horsham via Dorking (one that would normally run empty out of service on a Saturday) around 6am.
How exactly does this make sense as if Southern are running a Saturday service every single day then why do they need to operate that Saturday service in to London Bridge on a weekday but not on a Saturday. Also the original reason for not operating in to London Victoria in the form of Network Rail signal works has surely long since been completed hasn't it?
So why isn't this Saturday service now being run in to London Victoria six days a week instead of in to London Bridge from Monday to Friday and London Victoria on a Saturday? Also what happened last Saturday and did the Saturday service run from Horsham via Dorking in to London Bridge that day too or did it then also operate in to London Bridge?
I understand about the shortage of train drivers due to Omicron and I understand about the diversions in to London Bridge over Christmas week due to signalling works but I don't understand the continued diversion of Horsham to Victoria via Dorking services in to London Bridge in the week but not on a Saturday now that the signalling updating works that Network Rail were previously doing have surely long since been completed?
Nicholas Lewis
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Its not so much a shortage of train crew which I would say is very low given they and sister company TLk have run nigh on 100% of the plan everyday last week until yesterdays signalling failure at Forest Hill. The issue that has been reported on here by others is the planning teams just don't have the time to rehash all the rosters so better that you keep a stable plan and just leave the train crew teams to resource that roster. Remember they also have 3B's to Preston Park blockade in a few weeks which needs a special plan to deliver services around that which needs to be completed along with all the normal engineering works still going on.
Your route appears to be worst impacted as a result of this but at least they've reacted to providing an earlier service next week and in due course the normal service to Victoria will be restored.
Capvermell
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My route appears to be worst impacted because it seems to be the only route in the whole Southern network that doesn't have any evening trains on a Saturday evening (something that in itself is not justifiable and that I have tried lobbying against). Except that in last year's lockdown timetable it did have a Saturday evening shuttle service from Dorking to Horsham because the COVID lockdown timetable (a modified weekday timetable and not a modified Saturday timetable who's only actual purpose was to provide for major signalling works in the Clapham Junction area over xmas and not to cope with train crew shortages caused by COVUD) was in force from Monday to Saturday.
The problems on my section of line comes from having an existing unfit for purpose Saturday service with no evening service and then using that Saturday service timetable as the basis of the alleged Omicron staff shortage emergency weekday timetable, something that was never envisaged as being the purpose of that timetable when it was created.
The stuff about it taking ages and ages to come up with new route diagrams etc for train crews is all baloney as far as I am concerned as Southern/GoVia already have a Saturday timetable with all of those things in place so as long as they run that whole timetable in to London Victoria. Extra work is only created by altering the Saturday timetable services to terminate them at London Bridge so you would have thought they would want to change all services back to London Victoria ASAP.
But no they now seem to have a love affair with running man of their services in to London Bridge for as long as possible so I can't see why that's the case unless Network Rail is continuing their signalling improvement project on the QT until some date or other well in to February..........
The weekday timetable may be based on the Saturday service, but it isn't identical, with significantly fewer trains running in the suburban area, so there may be a question of providing crew resources.
Even without WFH weekends are reportedly much busier during the day than weekdays, so maintaining the service as far as possible makes sense.
Capvermell
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So if weekends are now much busier than weekdays these days then it makes precisely no sense whatsoever to continue running a service pattern from Dorking to Horsham with no trains on Saturday evening that came in to effect some time in the 1960s or 1970s
A quick solution exists by at least making the out of service south of Dorking 2255 from London Bridge in to a passenger service to Horsham but if any train planners are reading this they seem unwillng to take the hint, even though they have acceded to pressure from their own senior staff at Horsham Stationt o convert the early morning out of service train all the way from Horsham through to London Bridge in to a passenger carrying service on weekdays.........
Peregrine 4903
Established Member
It also creates too much workload for train planners who would have to rewrite already completely rewritten timetables for the weekends for engineering works. So another reason why the weekends are kept as is.
Nicholas Lewis
On Moderation
There are handful of planners responsible for planning and resourcing c900 trains / day along several thousand train crew diagrams to deliver that service. Ordinarily they are already working hard just to keep ahead of engineering work and as you've noticed NR now have an appetite for a lot more mid week closures (nothing wrong with that but you need an adequate train planning organisation to support). Then you got curved ball from Covid leading to a wholesale unplanned replan of services pulling on this limited resources. Then finally the planners aren't immune to Covid and unlike train crew they don't has spare cover just waiting to step in. The fact Southern have run a service and one thats been reliable is to be applauded and there intention is to progressively restore the Victoria service.
Southerns only fault is not be more communicative of these challenges and the MD ought to be making statement that reflects whats happening and acknowledges that they need to restore service to Victoria and indicate the plan and timescales to do so.
Capvermell
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I can't see why their intention is to only progressively restore services to Victoria instead of to London Bridge on the Saturday timetable rather than just restore the entire darn lot going in to Victoria now the engineering works that were blocking the train paths are over.
If they just switched back to the full Saturday service to Victoria at one go the train route diagrams etc surely all already exist and there can't be a train crew resource issue to run in to Victoria as normal on the Saturday service compared to this still largely diverted to London Bridge service as the journey times for all the trains that normally run to Victoria are several minutes less than going in to London Bridge. This isn't of course true of South Eastern's services from Kent in to London Victoria but none of them have been affected by Southern's project of diversions to London Bridge and they are all running in to the other half of Victoria Station as before.
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