Disruption to services - Storm Dudley & Storm Eunice

[Magdalia]

Does anyone know whether the Stansted Express has any chance of running around 6pm? Have an elderly relative arriving at the airport around that time and need to understand whether we need alternative arrangements for her.

You need alternative arrangements.

The OTT map shows that the line is still blocked at Stansted Mountfitchet and trains are still in the Bishops Stortford and Harlow areas where they were abandoned more than 24 hours ago.

A Cambridge-Stansted Airport shuttle has just started up but it looks like it is only going to be one train every 2 hours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

NatEx has seats on some services but they appear to be rapidly selling out, so if that is useful I would book now.

14 quid, so they aren't milking it like they could be, which is good.

 

[zwk500]

Interesting.

I don't work for incident response, I can't redirect a repair crew to your local station. I'm just trying to explain that people are trying their hardest but there's many, many more problems than there are people and equipment available to fix them.

 

[Starmill]

Does anyone know whether the Stansted Express has any chance of running around 6pm? Have an elderly relative arriving at the airport around that time and need to understand whether we need alternative arrangements for her.

The A6 bus service for Golders Green, Finchley Road, Baker Street or London Victoria is still running.

 

[Helenamuti]

Thank you both, will make alternative arrangements

 

[traingeek97]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but I'd be interested in knowing more about what drivers do during times of significant disruption.

For example, a train was berthed at my local station for about six hours yesterday during the worst of the weather. Would the driver have stayed with the train throughout this time or would they have found another way to travel back to their home depot?

I'd assumed the majority of drivers who were stuck out on the network yesterday were early turn and therefore due to finish by 2/3pm. Would they have been required to stay beyond their shift or at least until another driver is sent to the location?

 

[Falcon1200]

If a sensibly reduced timetable were introduced, with a blanket ESR and DMU operation where possible - perhaps taking a AWC approach and splitting longer runs into shorter segments, do you think total cancellations would still have been greater (taking into account potential units out of place, crew etc the following day)?

Replacing EMU services with DMUs is fraught with practical difficulties because many (but not all) Scotrail electric trains are Driver Only, whereas all DMUs require a Guard as well, so for example running Ayrshire or Inverclyde services with DMUs would be next to impossible. It could perhaps be done for say an Edinburgh/Glasgow service, assuming that the Drivers and Guards have retained competency for DMUs, although course every DMU taken to run vice EMU is one less DMU for their booked services. In any case what would result would be a greatly reduced service on those routes which were served, and still with the possibility of disruption due to line blockages, and wires down which do not power DMUs but still impede their progress.

As regard splitting services into self-contained segments, I am not sure there are actually many Scotrail services where that would be practical, maybe just the Edinbugh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness routes, with a split at Perth or Dundee, although if crews work their train throughout it would not help anyway.

I do still think that while undoubtedly drastic, and disruptive to many passengers' journeys, Scotrail's decision did result in much less overall disruption, and I wish a similar policy had been introduced on some of the horrendous severe weather days I experienced at work !

 

[bramling]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but I'd be interested in knowing more about what drivers do during times of significant disruption.

For example, a train was berthed at my local station for about six hours yesterday during the worst of the weather. Would the driver have stayed with the train throughout this time or would they have found another way to travel back to their home depot?

I'd assumed the majority of drivers who were stuck out on the network yesterday were early turn and therefore due to finish by 2/3pm. Would they have been required to stay beyond their shift or at least until another driver is sent to the location?

A train should not be left unattended except at designated stabling/berthing locations. As well as the usual places where trains are booked to stable overnight, there’s numerous other places where trains can stable if required for whatever reason.

But otherwise trains should always have a driver in charge of the train, and normally in this situation you’d expect arrangements to be made for a relief to occur. Whether that always happens in extreme situations is another matter, but in principle there should never be a train on a running line without at least a driver.

 

[A0]

Just going around Herts today, many trees down on roads with the council busy chopping them up. The big difference is that many of these were dragged slightly off the road for motor vehicles to pass on the verge a luxury that rail doesn’t had.

I must admit rail are damned If they don’t.

on Wednesday I was travelling from Scotland- England. We knew about the storm. LNER wouldn’t remove ticket acceptance so I stayed with my booked train and got 100% delay replay which could have being avoided had they let me take an earlier train. I asked the staff at Waverley as I was on the platform in time for 1500 but told to wait until booked 1530.

Other incidents that hindsight is great. Last night the 1930 London- Newcastle was held outside WGC because of a fallen tree. If they had kept it on the platform at WGC they could have opened the doors. Yes I know they don’t know how long the train was going to be there. But everyday is a learning day.

Bit in bold

Not that you'd have wanted to get off in WGC McDonalds and a couple of pubs is hardly a draw. You were better off on the train.

 

[Mag_seven]

There’s a 50mph BSR over the Anglia region today, which won’t help matters.

I assume you mean TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction)?

 

[zwk500]

I assume you mean TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction)?

BSR could stand for Blanket Speed Restriction, as it's regional not specific (as a TSR usually would be)

 

[Mag_seven]

BSR could stand for Blanket Speed Restriction, as it's regional not specific (as a TSR usually would be)

Fair enough? (noting that "T" and "B" are nowhere near one another on the keyboard).

 

[dk1]

I would hope that the ORR is looking very closely at those TOCs who overreacted with a view to imposing fines to remind them of their responsibilities to their customers.

I can confidently say that that will not happen.

 

[43066]

BSR could stand for Blanket Speed Restriction, as it's regional not specific (as a TSR usually would be)

Indeed (apologies for the acronym use).

Fair enough? (noting that "T" and "B" are nowhere near one another on the keyboard).

Even my typing isn’t quite that bad.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bit in bold

Not that you'd have wanted to get off in WGC McDonalds and a couple of pubs is hardly a draw. You were better off on the train.

To be fair, there is value in holding the train at a station if at all possible rather than shifting it along to a known blockage, because then as things develop people can change their mind, e.g. if loss of power causes loss of toilet facilities, or if someone gets a call from a friend offering them a lift who couldn't earlier on. On the other hand, if another train was trapped on open line behind it and it couldn't be taken back to the previous station, then moving it on at least gives everyone one chance to leave.

Certainly strategy should be to hold trains in stations with doors released if at all possible (or people let off via local door if the platform is short), and that's my general experience of what actually happens, but obviously it doesn't always work that way.

 

[londonmidland]

Just an advanced warning that there could be further disruption tomorrow (Sunday) and Monday.

Weather models are picking up on a squall line travelling in a NW>SE direction, spanning across the country. From around 13:00-19:00 (give or take) it’ll be active and heading down the country. This is for tomorrow.

Additional warnings are for flooding caused by heavy and persistent rain (particularly in parts of the North and South Wales) as well as strong winds and gusts. 50-60mph quite widely with 70mph possible in a few places.

Given the recent storm damage and saturated ground, it won’t take much for further trees to be uprooted.

Please discuss in new thread here

 

[infobleep]

If I'm interpreting Realtime Trains correctly, it looks as if there have been 6 departures (and 9 arrivals) since 14.00: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...2022-02-19/1340?stp=WVS&show=all&order=actual -- much less than normal, but not nothing.

There are quite a few others that should have left a long time ago but aren't shown as having either departed or been cancelled; I see that the one that left for Chessington a few minutes ago is still shown as having been the 13.47 rather than redesignated as the 14.47.

The last train to run was the 14:50 to Woking, which departed 48 minutes late.

Everything following that is shown as cancelled, not that much was running before it.

It's only running 50 minutes late at Weybridge. I'm surprised it's doing so well to keep to this time, given how little else is running and whatever the reasons are for those services not to be running.

Still no rail replacement buses running from Guildford. I wonder if it will be possible for them to run tomorrow. Time will tell.

Funny how things go. Yesterday someone asked SWR on Twitter if they could catch an earlier train relative to the time of their ticket (although 1 day later). They responded please try to get a train around a similar time.

I have no idea what they did, as they needed to be in London by 11. Staff wouldn't have known things would be this bad though.

I don't work for incident response, I can't redirect a repair crew to your local station. I'm just trying to explain that people are trying their hardest but there's many, many more problems than there are people and equipment available to fix them.

Thanks. I find all this fascinating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just an advanced warning that there could be further disruption tomorrow (Sunday) and Monday.

Weather models are picking up on a squall line travelling in a NW>SE direction, spanning across the country. From around 13:00-19:00 (give or take) it’ll be active and heading down the country. This is for tomorrow.

Additional warnings are for flooding caused by heavy and persistent rain (particularly in parts of the North and South Wales) as well as strong winds and gusts. 50-60mph quite widely with 70mph possible in a few places.

Given the recent storm damage and saturated ground, it won’t take much for further trees to be uprooted.

We seem to be getting the odd gust as bad as yesterday here in the Bletch, but with the added disadvantage of rain.

 

[londonmidland]

We seem to be getting the odd gust as bad as yesterday here in the Bletch, but with the added disadvantage of rain.

In my very own (uneducated) opinion, I wouldn’t be surprised to see places report higher gust speeds being reported, in association with the squall line, compared to Storm Eunice.

 

[infobleep]

I have noticed the back entrance to Guildford station is now closed. Earlier it was open with people sheltering in it from the rain. Unusual to see it closed on a Saturday afternoon.

If train services were to resume on the North Downs Line, could they open the back station entrance, given those trains only use platforms 4 to 8 and I believe the station roof issues are affecting the main building, which is on platforms 1 and 2?

Update: It's now open again. A promising sign.

 

[yorksrob]

If the whole country is to be treated as being under a red weather warning regardless of whether it actually is, what's the point of having amber and yellow ones ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the whole country is to be treated as being under a red weather warning regardless of whether it actually is, what's the point of having amber and yellow ones ?

The media will always report tripe. Do your own research on reputable sites, e.g. the Met Office.

They are also very London-centric, which is why they were reporting the red in that way (they weren't until one was declared for London).

 

[Bikeman78]

This is fun to follow

I watched this for a while yesterday. It was noteworthy that there was a constant stream of arrivals 90-120 seconds apart. It's all very well saying do not travel but what are all the passengers off those planes supposed to do? Not sure how many free hotel rooms there were yesterday.

 

[yorksrob]

The media will always report tripe. Do your own research on reputable sites, e.g. the Met Office.

Which is exactly what I did. And no, I didn't stay at home despite what the radio was telling me, I assessed the risk and prepared myself for the possibility of disruption.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is exactly what I did. And no, I didn't stay at home despite what the radio was telling me, I assessed the risk and prepared myself for the possibility of disruption.

Sorry, I wasn't saying you weren't, just that that was why one could be forgiven for the whole country being seen as red in some peoples' eyes.

The media reporting London-centric tripe like that is annoying, but the other option (regulating them too tightly) is fraught with danger.

I watched this for a while yesterday. It was noteworthy that there was a constant stream of arrivals 90-120 seconds apart. It's all very well saying do not travel but what are all the passengers off those planes supposed to do? Not sure how many free hotel rooms there were yesterday.

Nobody was saying that those who had to travel should not, though to some extent it was at their own risk of getting stuck.

 

[yorksrob]

Sorry, I wasn't saying you weren't, just that that was why one could be forgiven for the whole country being seen as red in some peoples' eyes.

The media reporting London-centric tripe like that is annoying, but the other option (regulating them too tightly) is fraught with danger.

Indeed. I think the fact that the red warning was in London contributed to the situation.

 

[181]

The last train to run was the 14:50 to Woking, which departed 48 minutes late.

Everything following that is shown as cancelled, not that much was running before it.

Currently (16.53) I'm seeing several later departures on RTT, most recently the 15.54 to Guildford via Cobham, leaving at 16.47½.

 

[AlbertBeale]

The media will always report tripe. Do your own research on reputable sites, e.g. the Met Office.

They are also very London-centric, which is why they were reporting the red in that way (they weren't until one was declared for London).

There have been criticisms here that the media only made a fuss about a red warning when it involved London, but also that the London red warning was held back until the early hours. Confusing!

Personally, I checked the BBC news (both radio and website) from time to time, and found lots of coverage of the red warning in the south-west when it was in place, and also lots of coverage of the red warning in London and the south-east when the warning came our way. Of course the regional TV and local radio (and regional news bit of the BBC website) tended to concentrate on what was happing in their patch; but overall I didn't see any London & south-east bias in media coverage (at least on the BBC).

 

[Sleepy]

You need alternative arrangements.

The OTT map shows that the line is still blocked at Stansted Mountfitchet and trains are still in the Bishops Stortford and Harlow areas where they were abandoned more than 24 hours ago.

A Cambridge-Stansted Airport shuttle has just started up but it looks like it is only going to be one train every 2 hours.

Shuttle not running now - OHL damage Shelford !

 

[Horizon22]

I watched this for a while yesterday. It was noteworthy that there was a constant stream of arrivals 90-120 seconds apart. It's all very well saying do not travel but what are all the passengers off those planes supposed to do? Not sure how many free hotel rooms there were yesterday.

Sorry, I wasn't saying you weren't, just that that was why one could be forgiven for the whole country being seen as red in some peoples' eyes.

The media reporting London-centric tripe like that is annoying, but the other option (regulating them too tightly) is fraught with danger

Nobody was saying that those who had to travel should not, though to some extent it was at their own risk of getting stuck.

I think its somewhat different for air travel as no doubt people were arriving who had maybe set off many hours beforehand from different countries and had absoutely no idea what the weather situation was in the UK. In fact given that the red warning for London & SE was given at around 0400 GMT, some of these passengers may already have been in flight!