Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Mal]

Does anyone know when North Bridge will be open to two way traffic again?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Does anyone know when North Bridge will be open to two way traffic again?

The full completion (most of which doesn’t require the road closure) is delayed until 2024 now. There’s been further problems so I think we’ll be lucky for it to be open to two way traffic this year, I believe it was supposed to be open in time for the Festival.

 

[stevenedin]

It’s a nightmare in the city centre right now. Buses aren’t turning up at Leith Walk and are diverted last minute and the TFE app doesn’t get updated straight away to show this. I think that York Place westbound, Leith Street Northbound and Leith Walk northbound will open this year so that will just leave North Bridge possibly as it is for the rest of the year.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The North bridge diversion reroute simply will not cope during the festival. They have to get that road open and do whatever it takes to make that happen and keep it that way. The entire city even without trams running down Princess Street which is certainly helping the situation is still capable of falling over with a moment's notice right now because of the huge number of diversions. Gorgie road to Brunswick road on the 25 yesterday evening took 90 minutes

Last time I had the misfortune of riding the 37 all the way from south of the diversion to home in Muirhouse, the diversionary route itself took exactly 52 minutes according to Google maps timeline

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The North bridge diversion reroute simply will not cope during the festival. They have to get that road open and do whatever it takes to make that happen and keep it that way. The entire city even without trams running down Princess Street which is certainly helping the situation is still capable of falling over with a moment's notice right now because of the huge number of diversions. Gorgie road to Brunswick road on the 25 yesterday evening took 90 minutes

Last time I had the misfortune of riding the 37 all the way from south of the diversion to home in Muirhouse, the diversionary route itself took exactly 52 minutes according to Google maps timeline

We know how much of a struggle the roads are when they’re all open during the festival. I certainly hope North Bridge will be open by July/August, however I just can’t see that happening. Originally it was never expected to be closed at all, but it became clear fairly quickly that that was never going to be possible.

At the very least 1 of Trams to Newhaven (most of this with the exception of the odd street here and there) or North Bridge needs to open for the festival and at the minute I can’t see either happening.

No doubt the route planners/schedulers are already looking at this, but hopefully it won’t be necessary.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Only way I can see the higher season working for bus services is for maximum fleet utilisation and split routes through the city centre, terminating at various places and restarting buses from the other side of the key disruption hotspots. A long long way from Ideal but if through running is this chaotic in February and March then it simply would not last the test of time in August.

 

[GusB]

There is a separate thread for discussing the Edinburgh tours:

Edinburgh Tour Operators: Bright Bus, Lothian (Majestic, Three Bridges) etc.

It's on employment website and FIRST website for jobs looking for JOBS, you can apply now and get this new job. It must be in the jobCentre aswell.... https://www.indeed.co.uk/m/viewjob?jk=3edfbf47b70e4624&from=appsharedroid&dupclk=0 PCV Tour Bus Driver First UK Bus - Edinburgh £10.50 an...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[TheEastCoaster]

does anyone suspect we’ll get a service change in April at somepoint? It’s been almost 6 months since the last service change so you have to wonder

 

[alexf380]

does anyone suspect we’ll get a service change in April at somepoint? It’s been almost 6 months since the last service change so you have to wonder

There's talk around the garage of one. Something is in the works, all will be revealed shortly.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There's talk around the garage of one. Something is in the works, all will be revealed shortly.

You make it sound like there's something big and exciting planned although I know that's probably not the case!

 

[mb88]

You make it sound like there's something big and exciting planned although I know that's probably not the case!

It has been confirmed by the MD that a network review is taking place with a view to implementing any changes before the summer. That’s all we know so far.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I predict a frequency increase for the 21 and 30 which should never have been cut in the first place

Some city centre services which are having to cope with more than one big diversion split to improve reliability at either end to the route to prevent buses being spun round early which has become a pandemic all of its own in recent times



An increase in frequency on routes which duplicate or partially serve suburban rail routes that have seen frequencies savagely butchered by ScotRail and it's death of a thousand cuts approach to post covid service levels


Airlink frequency increase

Complete withdrawal of the 300 or a total fresh approach with a new route

Trial reintroduction of the X5


Speeding up of the x27 to cut journey time between Edinburgh and Livingston two under one hour

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I predict a frequency increase for the 21 and 30 which should never have been cut in the first place

Some city centre services which are having to cope with more than one big diversion split to improve reliability at either end to the route to prevent buses being spun round early which has become a pandemic all of its own in recent times



An increase in frequency on routes which duplicate or partially serve suburban rail routes that have seen frequencies savagely butchered by ScotRail and it's death of a thousand cuts approach to post covid service levels


Airlink frequency increase

Complete withdrawal of the 300 or a total fresh approach with a new route

Trial reintroduction of the X5


Speeding up of the x27 to cut journey time between Edinburgh and Livingston two under one hour

I think you’re being very ambitious there, I can’t see many ‘improvements’ on now. Possibly the odd thing here and there but certainly in most larger companies the number staff absences have stayed at a consistent level for a few months now, not one that is probably good enough to increase much. The 300 could be busy that’s the thing, but I understand why Lothian have taken the approach they have.

I’m not sure how you speed up the X27? It goes near enough a direct route as is possible without many deviations from the main road, 2 I think.

I can see the X5 coming back though. 195-196 are there if they ever need them.

 

[mb88]

I predict a frequency increase for the 21 and 30 which should never have been cut in the first place

Some city centre services which are having to cope with more than one big diversion split to improve reliability at either end to the route to prevent buses being spun round early which has become a pandemic all of its own in recent times



An increase in frequency on routes which duplicate or partially serve suburban rail routes that have seen frequencies savagely butchered by ScotRail and it's death of a thousand cuts approach to post covid service levels


Airlink frequency increase

Complete withdrawal of the 300 or a total fresh approach with a new route

Trial reintroduction of the X5


Speeding up of the x27 to cut journey time between Edinburgh and Livingston two under one hour

Yeah I’m not sure how you’d speed up the x27 either unless you put it straight onto the A71 at Lizzie Brice and miss out Mid and East Calder which would make no sense.

Pending a massive change in staffing levels between now and the summer, I can’t see any increases being possible.

 

[stevenedin]

The only possibility would be to add another express service but the X22 & X40 already cover the more direct routes there.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Yeah I’m not sure how you’d speed up the x27 either unless you put it straight onto the A71 at Lizzie Brice and miss out Mid and East Calder which would make no sense.

Pending a massive change in staffing levels between now and the summer, I can’t see any increases being possible.

Also with the amount of buses that have been sold there might not be enough to cover a significant increase as the fleet stands currently.

 

[computerSaysNo]

It has been confirmed by the MD that a network review is taking place with a view to implementing any changes before the summer. That’s all we know so far.

Ah fair.
A sensible thing I think would be to start thinking about introducing the planned changes from before COVID, like changing the 124 to become the X24... I can't remember what many of the other changes planned were though.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Ah fair.
A sensible thing I think would be to start thinking about introducing the planned changes from before COVID, like changing the 124 to become the X24... I can't remember what many of the other changes planned were though.

I don’t think there were any plans to change the 124 to become the X24 full time, however the fact it’s still not been introduced for peak times is surprising, maybe when the X5 returns we could see this happen!

There were plans on the 15 extending to Eastfield to accommodate the 124 between Lothian Road and Portobello with a 15 minute frequency During the week as the 124 had a 15 minute frequency during the weekends years ago when the 26 was cut.

But as for the 300, either it should be withdrawn as it’s pretty much been cut down to the point of no use, which would be a shame giving the route number would be a waste, or rebranded again!

When it went to Cameron Toll it had potential, although having it extended to the Royal Infirmary would of been the icing on the cake, maybe even as far as the Fort or Eastfield, give some sort of unique service for the East part of Edinburgh, I don’t know I’m just throwing ideas out here as I don’t know what is realistically viable, but it seems like a waste of a route!

But only time will tell

 

[DunsBus]

I predict a frequency increase for the 21 and 30 which should never have been cut in the first place

Some city centre services which are having to cope with more than one big diversion split to improve reliability at either end to the route to prevent buses being spun round early which has become a pandemic all of its own in recent times



An increase in frequency on routes which duplicate or partially serve suburban rail routes that have seen frequencies savagely butchered by ScotRail and it's death of a thousand cuts approach to post covid service levels


Airlink frequency increase

Complete withdrawal of the 300 or a total fresh approach with a new route

Trial reintroduction of the X5


Speeding up of the x27 to cut journey time between Edinburgh and Livingston two under one hour

I'm going to stick my neck out here and predict that LCB will pull out of West Lothian.

 

[mb88]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and predict that LCB will pull out of West Lothian.

Not a chance. With all the money put into the depot at Livingston and work still going on there as we speak?

 

[computerSaysNo]

I don’t think there were any plans to change the 124 to become the X24 full time, however the fact it’s still not been introduced for peak times is surprising, maybe when the X5 returns we could see this happen!

If I remember right the plan was to make all 124s limited stop Edinburgh to Musselburgh then all stops from there. The services which used to run as X24 in the peaks would then be replaced with additional X5s.

There were plans on the 15 extending to Eastfield to accommodate the 124 between Lothian Road and Portobello with a 15 minute frequency

I don't really see the point in that to be honest, the 124 doesn't extend that far up Lothian Road and the 26 runs between Shandwick Place an Portobello with high frequency anyway.
The 45 provides a direct link from the Tollcross area down to Portobello anyway.

But as for the 300, either it should be withdrawn as it’s pretty much been cut down to the point of no use, which would be a shame giving the route number would be a waste, or rebranded again!

I wouldn't say that it has no use, but it's certainly not as good as it used to be. I've been trying to think of how it could be "improved" (i.e. cost less to run without loosing links). The route could be truncated at the Gyle and run as a 35 Gyle to Semple Street? There would still be the 400 every half hour to connect to the Airport, plus there's the tram.

 

[freddiem]

If I remember right the plan was to make all 124s limited stop Edinburgh to Musselburgh then all stops from there. The services which used to run as X24 in the peaks would then be replaced with additional X5s.

I don't really see the point in that to be honest, the 124 doesn't extend that far up Lothian Road and the 26 runs between Shandwick Place an Portobello with high frequency anyway.
The 45 provides a direct link from the Tollcross area down to Portobello anyway.

I wouldn't say that it has no use, but it's certainly not as good as it used to be. I've been trying to think of how it could be "improved" (i.e. cost less to run without loosing links). The route could be truncated at the Gyle and run as a 35 Gyle to Semple Street? There would still be the 400 every half hour to connect to the Airport, plus there's the tram.

I had been thinking about how to improve the airport routes in general, the first thing I would do is make them limited Stop across the whole routes.

100 - I would run exactly as is, it has been a mainstay for years in Edinburgh, and if it ain't broke...
200 - I would run it Airport - Maybury - Drumbrae S/N - Queensferry Rd - Telford Rd - Ferry Rd - Ocean Terminal (via Ferry Road as there are several B&Bs along there with potential for passengers)
300 - As is to Angle Park Terrace - then via West Approach Rd - Lothian Road- Melville Drive - Newington - Cameron Toll - RIE. Thus avoiding trying to turn right out of Nicholson Sq, and will speed up journey times
400- Exactly as is but Limited stop

This would be part of a wider network recast with other services changed to reconfigure the network, and to provide all stopper routes where I have removed these routes

My reasoning for limited stop is because the airport fare premium could be seen as more worthwhile if journeys are quicker and also may attract more general users to boost loadings if the journey time is significantly less

 

[Graham Alexand]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and predict that LCB will pull out of West Lothian.

I was on the 276 yesterday afternoon (towards Broxburn) and, I kid you not, it went from having three or four people to completely filled with approximately seven people standing.

My point is that Lothian Country are doing relatively well in West Lothian (minus the 275) with the X27/ X28 being quite busy going towards Bathgate/ Whitburn with the X18 being relatively full in either direction (I relised I've neglected the 280 as I don't often see that one so I cannot comment).

 

[stevenedin]

Not to mention the X27 and X28 are relatively busy recently especially on the city centre to Sighthill section. People seem to have learned that they exist and are using them much more now.

 

[freddiem]

I was on the 276 yesterday afternoon (towards Broxburn) and, I kid you not, it went from having three or four people to completely filled with approximately seven people standing.

My point is that Lothian Country are doing relatively well in West Lothian (minus the 275) with the X27/ X28 being quite busy going towards Bathgate/ Whitburn with the X18 being relatively full in either direction (I relised I've neglected the 280 as I don't often see that one so I cannot comment).

From personal Experience, and from my family who also use them, the X27/X28 can be quite busy across the route, especially on the Edinburgh to Mid Calder section, the 280 is increasingly popular, especially with the unreliability of the X25. I don't see LC leaving West Lothian any time soon and if they play their cards right, they might find themselves the only big operator in the area, with the ever declining service from First

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

200 - I would run it Airport - Maybury - Drumbrae S/N - Queensferry Rd - Telford Rd - Ferry Rd - Ocean Terminal (via Ferry Road as there are several B&Bs along there with potential for passengers)

One of the main reasons the 200 does the route it does is because it replaces the 32. By sending it along Ferry Road it then just duplicates the 21 near enough the whole way from Ocean Terminal to Drum Brae (bar Blackhall) which in my view isn’t pointless, but doesn’t offer many benefits. It’s very well used on its current route, especially early in the morning where transport to the Airport used to be much harder. Airlines have a number of lodges on the route that crew use as nightstops and the airlines have (in many cases) deliberately picked ones on the Skylink routes as they are cheaper.

The Skylinks are different to the Airlink in my opinion. For me the primary purpose of them is to offer the suburban connections, and secondary to that is the premium Airport journeys - which are still important - The 300 was like this before but as we all know is a bit of an oddball these days. From my experience the Skylinks are more used by locals than tourists, but this may have changed. The Airlinks main market is and always will be the journeys to and from the Airprort, very few use it as a suburban bus and with the introduction of the X18 and the set down only in some places Lothian have tried to move away from that as well.

There’s not that many B&B’s on Ferry Road, don’t get me wrong there’s more than the current route but not enough to justify it in my view, not to mention some of the congestion you’ll get along there as well.

 

[ScotRail158725]

400- Exactly as is but Limited stop

The 400 is successful as it is now due to the fact its a southern orbit route. Making it express will cause passenger numbers to decline

 

[freddiem]

One of the main reasons the 200 does the route it does is because it replaces the 32. By sending it along Ferry Road it then just duplicates the 21 near enough the whole way from Ocean Terminal to Drum Brae (bar Blackhall) which in my view isn’t pointless, but doesn’t offer many benefits. It’s very well used on its current route, especially early in the morning where transport to the Airport used to be much harder. Airlines have a number of lodges on the route that crew use as nightstops and the airlines have (in many cases) deliberately picked ones on the Skylink routes as they are cheaper.

The Skylinks are different to the Airlink in my opinion. For me the primary purpose of them is to offer the suburban connections, and secondary to that is the premium Airport journeys - which are still important - The 300 was like this before but as we all know is a bit of an oddball these days. From my experience the Skylinks are more used by locals than tourists, but this may have changed. The Airlinks main market is and always will be the journeys to and from the Airprort, very few use it as a suburban bus and with the introduction of the X18 and the set down only in some places Lothian have tried to move away from that as well.

There’s not that many B&B’s on Ferry Road, don’t get me wrong there’s more than the current route but not enough to justify it in my view, not to mention some of the congestion you’ll get along there as well.

Fair points here, I hadn't really considered the replacement of the 32, and the lodges factor.

I had been having some different thoughts about this, and I think fairly soon Lothian will have to decide whether the 300 is to be kept or killed. The 35 does the heavy work on the current route between Bankhead and Semple St, and the 400 to the Airport, and I think the 35 running to Heriot Watt is hugely beneficial, as it takes some of the pressure off the 34 at the busy times at the University as far as Semple Street.

I hope they bring the 300 back, but I do think changing it to serve the Meadows would be better as Lauriston Place is a nightmare, especially with the Bristo Place One way system and I don't know how many times I have been on a bus that takes 5 or more mins to get out of Nicholson Sq. And an extension to RIE could be useful too.

 

[InOban]

Doesn't the 400 already serve RIE?

 

[Auld reekie]

Doesn't the 400 already serve RIE?

Yes.