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Stations rebranded to Great British Railways design / Rail Alphabet 2

nlogax

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Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
Why do people assume those designing the signs (for a given station) have any idea of the needs of passengers?
This is less the fault of Calvert and Kubel and more of a fault of the obvious disconnect between the wayfinding guidance and the physical implementation which in most cases has been cheap and temporary. RA2 could be so much more than this.
 
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krus_aragon

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have any welsh stations got gbr branding or is that not happening
I haven't seen/heard of any going up (though I haven't been visiting many stations to check).

They were already in the process of putting up TfW branding when GBR raised its head, so I'm not expecting them to choose to ditch all their work in favour of somebody else's design. Scotland aren't planning to do so either, so it's not like Wales will be an outlier in this.
 

HarryL

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Leeds
Wales has spent a lot of time, effort and money to build a consistent Welsh brand and a typeface family that are all intended to be used universally by the Welsh Government, including in transport. I can't imagine they would want to give any of that up or water it down, nor should they.

ScotRail too is a brand enforced by the Scottish Government, regardless of operator, and is a devolved matter. They have just established ScotRail Trains as their nationalised operator, so I can't see them changing it again for GBR.
 

SteveyBee131

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Perhaps it should be GER, being as the W and S that would make it GBR have already done their own thing?! Branding wise anyway, without going off the topic of this thread and opening countless other cans of worms!
 

Davester50

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ScotRail too is a brand enforced by the Scottish Government, regardless of operator, and is a devolved matter. They have just established ScotRail Trains as their nationalised operator, so I can't see them changing it again for GBR.
What happens to the two big stations that don't have the ScotRail branding?
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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What is irritating me though is that as the company is called Great British Railways, there’s absolutely no requirement whatsoever for Scotland and Wales to have their own company brand. Whether they like it or not, they’re in Great Britain. I’d understand if the proposals were English Railways.
 

modernrail

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What is irritating me though is that as the company is called Great British Railways, there’s absolutely no requirement whatsoever for Scotland and Wales to have their own company brand. Whether they like it or not, they’re in Great Britain. I’d understand if the proposals were English Railways.
That’s because we are run by a horrible, talentless, power centralising Government that uses every opportunity they can to make their grubby little points. Hence instead of creating a structure to sort out the mess they created in the first place with the sort of humble pie that requires, they couldn’t help themselves from doing the old Westminster forcing the colonies to accept something without reasonable debate and consultation with the devolved authorities piece.

It is a daft name, you can’t just be shoving ‘Great’ infront of everything British, it is childish. You make the railways great by running them properly not by saying they are great in the name. Classic surface level modern Tories.

Just in Denmark - really do think I prefer white lettering on blue background. Looks a lot smarter to me. What’s the view on that format for those who are visually impaired compared with what we have ended up with?
 

takno

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Just in Denmark - really do think I prefer white lettering on blue background. Looks a lot smarter to me. What’s the view on that format for those who are visually impaired compared with what we have ended up with?
My view is that a significant piece of research was done by people with expertise in accessibility, and they found that the new Network Rail standards are more visible and usable by everybody. You're perfectly entitled to prefer the Danish ones, but that doesn't make them more inclusive or accessible
 

oglord

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What is irritating me though is that as the company is called Great British Railways, there’s absolutely no requirement whatsoever for Scotland and Wales to have their own company brand. Whether they like it or not, they’re in Great Britain. I’d understand if the proposals were English Railways.
In the latter years of BR there were always different brands: InterCity, NSE, Regional Railways, ScotRail, &c. GBR can have different brands but all be tied together with the old BR logo. No problem there.
 

Goldfish62

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My view is that a significant piece of research was done by people with expertise in accessibility, and they found that the new Network Rail standards are more visible and usable by everybody. You're perfectly entitled to prefer the Danish ones, but that doesn't make them more inclusive or accessible
I don't know why anyone needed to do a significant piece of research when there's plenty of research already out there, accessed by the power of Google. General concensus seems to be that the wording and background need to be sufficiently contrasting but there's no one colour combination that is better than others.
 

Bletchleyite

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I don't know why anyone needed to do a significant piece of research when there's plenty of research already out there, accessed by the power of Google. General concensus seems to be that the wording and background need to be sufficiently contrasting but there's no one colour combination that is better than others.

I'm going to throw this out there.

Almost every European railway uses white lettering on a blue background, including Network Rail's previous iteration. Like yellow on grey/black is an air travel standard (and Gatwick Airport station is done to match!), white on blue is a European rail standard.

When we do British exceptionalism, we're usually wrong.
 

Goldfish62

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I'm going to throw this out there.

Almost every European railway uses white lettering on a blue background, including Network Rail's previous iteration. Like yellow on grey/black is an air travel standard (and Gatwick Airport station is done to match!), white on blue is a European rail standard.

When we do British exceptionalism, we're usually wrong.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
 

py_megapixel

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What is irritating me though is that as the company is called Great British Railways, there’s absolutely no requirement whatsoever for Scotland and Wales to have their own company brand. Whether they like it or not, they’re in Great Britain. I’d understand if the proposals were English Railways.
"Great British Railways" is in fact to be an English body responsible for English-controlled services only, so it is indeed a rather stupid name. Objecting to Wales and Scotland, where transport is devolved, not dropping the Scotrail and TfW brands is to my mind arguing it the wrong way round. It's the Westminster government calling their England-specific body "Great British" that is the real problem. (It also sounds pretentious but that's for another thread)

You wouldn't expect TfL to rebrand the Croydon trams to "British Trams" and insist on sticking green roundels all over Supertram and the Midland Metro...
 

Bletchleyite

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"Great British Railways" is in fact to be an English body responsible for English-controlled services only, so it is indeed a rather stupid name. Objecting to Wales and Scotland, where transport is devolved, not dropping the Scotrail and TfW brands is to my mind arguing it the wrong way round. It's the Westminster government calling their England-specific body "Great British" that is the real problem. (It also sounds pretentious but that's for another thread)

You wouldn't expect TfL to rebrand the Croydon trams to "British Trams" and insist on sticking green roundels all over Supertram and the Midland Metro...

My view remains that we should fully devolve Network Rail to Wales/Scotland (i.e. completely separate organisations, which they could then vertically integrate with their permanently-nationalised operator) and that the new body should be "Rail England". That needn't be chucked all over the trains, though - the international trains from England to Scotland should be branded "InterCity" with only a small "operated by Rail England" tagline.
 

D6130

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That’s because we are run by a horrible, talentless, power centralising Government that uses every opportunity they can to make their grubby little points. Hence instead of creating a structure to sort out the mess they created in the first place with the sort of humble pie that requires, they couldn’t help themselves from doing the old Westminster forcing the colonies to accept something without reasonable debate and consultation with the devolved authorities piece.

It is a daft name, you can’t just be shoving ‘Great’ infront of everything British, it is childish. You make the railways great by running them properly not by saying they are great in the name. Classic surface level modern Tories.

Just in Denmark - really do think I prefer white lettering on blue background. Looks a lot smarter to me. What’s the view on that format for those who are visually impaired compared with what we have ended up with?
Interesting that Denmark has now adopted signage with white lettering on a blue background. Back in the late 'seventies/early 'eighties, they were the first - and possibly only - other country to adopt the BR standard black-on-white signage on stations and platforms and retained it for many years.
 

birchesgreen

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White backgrounds are not the optimal for readability, you want something slightly off-white. Of course a few years of weathering and indifferent cleaning should solve that issue.
 

ALEMASTER

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18 Aug 2011
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The heavy rail part of Meadowhall Interchange has received new signage (picture from a social media post) and it seems the railway is dropping the interchange bit of the station name and disassociating themselves with the buses, trams and coaches they connect with there!meadowhall.jpg
 

oglord

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My view remains that we should fully devolve Network Rail to Wales/Scotland (i.e. completely separate organisations, which they could then vertically integrate with their permanently-nationalised operator) and that the new body should be "Rail England". That needn't be chucked all over the trains, though - the international trains from England to Scotland should be branded "InterCity" with only a small "operated by Rail England" tagline.
April fool?
 

ALEMASTER

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"Great British Railways" is in fact to be an English body responsible for English-controlled services only, so it is indeed a rather stupid name. Objecting to Wales and Scotland, where transport is devolved, not dropping the Scotrail and TfW brands is to my mind arguing it the wrong way round. It's the Westminster government calling their England-specific body "Great British" that is the real problem. (It also sounds pretentious but that's for another thread)

You wouldn't expect TfL to rebrand the Croydon trams to "British Trams" and insist on sticking green roundels all over Supertram and the Midland Metro...

I've lost track, is GBR responsible for infrastructure in Wales and Scotland even if not the passenger operations?
 

Bletchleyite

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You want three entirely separate organisations when we used to and should have one, puting politics ahead of passenger needs. What is the benefit?

Vertical integration (so no "blame chain") and further devolution.

Also what on Earth do you mean by "international trains from England to Scotland"?

England is a nation. Scotland is a nation. Trains running between the two are therefore international trains, with similar implications in many ways to those running between the two parts of Ireland or between Schengen countries.

I've lost track, is GBR responsible for infrastructure in Wales and Scotland even if not the passenger operations?

Yes, though it's a fairly separate part of it. Scotland too.
 

oglord

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You have not explained how "further devolution" is a passenger benefit. It is a political ambition that not all people share. Dividing up British Rail into separate franchises was onbe of the key failings of privatisation.

Trains between England and Scotland are NOT international and you know that.

I've lost track, is GBR responsible for infrastructure in Wales and Scotland even if not the passenger operations?
Yes. From the Shapps plain for rail:

Great British Railways will continue to own the infrastructure in Scotland and Wales (other than some of the South Wales Valley Lines), as Network Rail does now
 

Bletchleyite

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You have not explained how "further devolution" is a passenger benefit. It is a political ambition that not all people share. Dividing up British Rail into separate franchises was onbe of the key failings of privatisation.

I don't agree with regard to Wales and Scotland, where one TOC is a nice fit and them controlling the infrastructure would make many things easier. ScotRail was already operated semi-independently from the rest of BR, a bit like how e.g. Merseyrail was.

Trains between England and Scotland are NOT international and you know that.

Scottish independence is a certainty, just a question of when. Might as well get used to it.
 

oglord

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I don't agree with regard to Wales and Scotland, where one TOC is a nice fit and them controlling the infrastructure would make many things easier.
That exact same argument is an argument for one TOC for the whole of Great Britain, except your argument creates unnecessary boundaries.

Scottish independence is a certainty, just a question of when. Might as well get used to it.
Nonsense. Even if that were that case, it is not the case now.
 

Bletchleyite

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That exact same argument is an argument for one TOC for the whole of Great Britain, except your argument creates unnecessary boundaries.

Transport is a devolved matter, so a TOC for the whole of Great Britain is not happening. We are where we are, so three vertically integrated operations with running rights is to me the best way.
 

oglord

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Transport is a devolved matter, so a TOC for the whole of Great Britain is not happening. We are where we are, so three vertically integrated operations with running rights is to me the best way.
Perhaps because it doesn't affect you?
I disagree with your suggestion. I would like as much integration as possible, not the creation of artificial boundaries for political reasons. As we are drifting off topic this will be my last comment on the matter.
 

SargeNpton

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The heavy rail part of Meadowhall Interchange has received new signage (picture from a social media post) and it seems the railway is dropping the interchange bit of the station name and disassociating themselves with the buses, trams and coaches they connect with there!View attachment 112376
I can't find anything within National Rail/Network Rail where Meadowhall was described with the "Interchange" suffix, so was that just used for the SuperTram?
 

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