Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[DunsBus]

It'll be a service increase, (I understand recruitment is going well) quite significant changes. Beginning of June I heard.

The last major service overhaul was back in March 2000. Some of the changes back then were very significant - the introduction of the "turn up and go" principle on main corridors, the 26 going to every five minutes within the city, the beginning of the end of the circle routes with the splitting of the 2/12, 19/39 and 34/35 and the rerouting of the 80 to terminate at Granton instead of Silverknowes, to name but a few. It'll be interesting to see what happens this time round.

One other effect which I recall from then was the ceding of Rosewell to First Edinburgh. We all know how that turned out!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I would like for them to give the N49 a chance, it seemed like an interesting idea giving Lochend a night service once more But have it run from The Jewel to Royal Infirmary instead rather than Surgeons Hall.

Can’t see that coming back, All of the N49 stickers on the flags have been covered. X25 was another that was covered. X44west and X5 haven’t though, among others.

 

[computerSaysNo]

425 back at Central after repaint. A few 200s are back and parked up, they're also showing as taxed, have ticket machines and don't have VOR signs so make of that what you will.

Regarding the 64-plate B5s (401-425), have they replaced the white/orange destination screens on the vehicle side with plain white ones? Or did they never have white/orange ones and I'm just misremembering?
Also I'm quite surprised that the B9s with East Coast aren't getting any interior work while they're away for repaint, as the 64-plate B5s you mention above are getting an interior refresh are they not?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Regarding the 64-plate B5s (401-425), have they replaced the white/orange destination screens on the vehicle side with plain white ones? Or did they never have white/orange ones and I'm just misremembering?
Also I'm quite surprised that the B9s with East Coast aren't getting any interior work while they're away for repaint, as the 64-plate B5s you mention above are getting an interior refresh are they not?

All of them have had their mobitec screens switched out for Hanover ones plus all but 425 have received newer seat mowuette. I assume these are priority as they are probably going to be around for longer than the eastcoast b9s.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Regarding the 64-plate B5s (401-425), have they replaced the white/orange destination screens on the vehicle side with plain white ones? Or did they never have white/orange ones and I'm just misremembering?
Also I'm quite surprised that the B9s with East Coast aren't getting any interior work while they're away for repaint, as the 64-plate B5s you mention above are getting an interior refresh are they not?

They’ve been changed to white Hanovers all round now. 401-406 have had them for some time but now 407-425 have been done too. They’ve all had a seat refresh too (minus 425).

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Can’t see that coming back, All of the N49 stickers on the flags have been covered. X25 was another that was covered. X44west and X5 haven’t though, among others.

Such a shame as it never really got the chance, could of maybe been popular potentially!

X25 I doubt will come back as the X27/X28 cover 90% of its route anyway

X44 West should make a come back, it makes more sense than the X44 East which could maybe be covered by a double 104 during rush hour, Balerno has no express service currently while Tranent and Wallyford are more than covered

 

[scotrail158713]

X44 West should make a come back, it makes more sense than the X44 East which could maybe be covered by a double 104 during rush hour, Balerno has no express service currently while Tranent and Wallyford are more than covered

Tend to agree apart from the 104 is all stops whereas the X44 was limited-stop within Edinburgh. Perhaps changing the 104 to limited-stop at rush hours would be the best way to do it?

 

[frvic93]

If true would make more sense to do this when the trams are finished? Would leave Leith a bit short for now I think.

In fairness as much as I like the idea of the N14 etc I’ve never seen very many on it.

It certainly would. They'd hopefully increase the number of 34s at the same time as doing that.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Biggest mistake ever made back in the 2000s was the removal of the various orbital roots. Giving how well the lakes of the 21, 200 and 400 now due at transporting people in and around the suburbs is it not time for a rethink on this policy and reintroduction of not necessarily full circles but a lot more orbital services that don't touch the city centre at all

 

[VioletEclipse]

Biggest mistake ever made back in the 2000s was the removal of the various orbital roots. Giving how well the lakes of the 21, 200 and 400 now due at transporting people in and around the suburbs is it not time for a rethink on this policy and reintroduction of not necessarily full circles but a lot more orbital services that don't touch the city centre at all

agreed, those and the likes of the 36 and 38 are usually very popular and there are many places without decent bus connections which could do with orbital routes. This would also replace hopefully a good number of car journeys around the suburbs. The amount of bus journeys that could be much more direct but require a detour via the city centre because all but a very small number of services pass through the city centre. I can think of a few routes that could potentially be very popular.

 

[freddiem]

In the very near future, orbital routes will probably prove to be very popular, with this weeks news that 2500 homes planned around Edinburgh Gateway/Gogar Roundabout. This is in addition to the 1000s of homes along the bypass corridor. Primarily hospital links will be necessary but a few decent routes linking various parts of the city to connect all these new estates could make bus travel more attractive to new homeowners rather than driving everywhere

 

[Avenger20]

Tend to agree apart from the 104 is all stops whereas the X44 was limited-stop within Edinburgh. Perhaps changing the 104 to limited-stop at rush hours would be the best way to do it?

With the growing housing areas in Wallyford, Tranent and Macmerry, I'd be all for making the 104 limited stop at all times. The route from Duddingston into City Centre is more than well covered by the 5, 44 and 113.

It's about time that the East Lothian communities that aren't directly connected to the railway were given a proper express service into the City Centre.

 

[alexf380]

Tend to agree apart from the 104 is all stops whereas the X44 was limited-stop within Edinburgh. Perhaps changing the 104 to limited-stop at rush hours would be the best way to do it?

It's about time that the East Lothian communities that aren't directly connected to the railway were given a proper express service into the City Centre.

An X13 anyone? That's what I'd go for anyway.

 

[VioletEclipse]

An X13 anyone? That's what I'd go for anyway.

That actually sounds quite a decent proposal.

I feel as though it's not considered as important as it really is to provide good bus links to towns and villages around Edinburgh such as the ones in East Lothian without a station.

Not providing a decent, quick and reliable bus service to places like this makes people dependant on a car to get almost anywhere, espescially getting into Edinburgh which many people in these places have to do frequently. As well as a massive load of other problems, car-dependency clogs up roads and delays buses, this really should be done more urgently.

A much better network of express and stopping services linking East Lothian towns and villages to Edinburgh might not be cost effective (at first at least), but with more housing being built there I feel that it may well be necessary.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

An X13 anyone? That's what I'd go for anyway.

I agree, I think it should basically be the current X44east (3 journeys each way) but extended to Elphinstone village*, then past the Research Centre, through Ormiston, Pencaitland and onto Gifford*

* denotes only one bus out of the three journeys would serve that place. Again this will never happen but I thought it could work. Elphinstone despite its size seems to have a very frequent service now.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Can’t see that coming back, All of the N49 stickers on the flags have been covered. X25 was another that was covered. X44west and X5 haven’t though, among others.

Actually they never got round to completing the N43 stickers when the route started up a few years ago. The service doesn't show on stops west of Blackhall, so maybe it will be terminating there at the next review!

 

[permarquis]

I agree, I think it should basically be the current X44east (3 journeys each way) but extended to Elphinstone village*, then past the Research Centre, through Ormiston, Pencaitland and onto Gifford*

* denotes only one bus out of the three journeys would serve that place. Again this will never happen but I thought it could work. Elphinstone despite its size seems to have a very frequent service now.

Couldn't agree more on Gifford! Always struck me as odd that, so far at least, the 113 has never been extended to East Saltoun and Gifford, given the two of them together rival Pencaitland, population-wise.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

With the growing housing areas in Wallyford, Tranent and Macmerry, I'd be all for making the 104 limited stop at all times. The route from Duddingston into City Centre is more than well covered by the 5, 44 and 113.

It's about time that the East Lothian communities that aren't directly connected to the railway were given a proper express service into the City Centre.

Maybe call it the X4? i don’t see it happening anytime soon honestly but stranger things have happened!

An X13 anyone? That's what I'd go for anyway.

Hmmm.. sounds familiar

Couldn't agree more on Gifford! Always struck me as odd that, so far at least, the 113 has never been extended to East Saltoun and Gifford, given the two of them together rival Pencaitland, population-wise.

Besides the 109 (or whatever the replacement service is called now) how good is the Gifford bus service?

Maybe they could trial a few peak runs to Gifford and see if there is any demand? maybe an hourly and Sunday service there, like the old 44 used to do back when it served Pencaitland

 

[frvic93]

Maybe call it the X4? i don’t see it happening anytime soon honestly but stranger things have happened!



Hmmm.. sounds familiar


Besides the 109 (or whatever the replacement service is called now) how good is the Gifford bus service?

Maybe they could trial a few peak runs to Gifford and see if there is any demand? maybe an hourly and Sunday service there, like the old 44 used to do back when it served Pencaitland

Looks pretty minimal - https://bustimes.org/services/123-haddington-pencaitland-and-gifford-circular

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Here’s a controversial idea. Would it work to swap the eastern termini of the 2 and the 30? Therefore run the 30 with double deckers to The Jewel and the 2 with eVoRa’s to Musselburgh. Say both routes every 15 minutes during the day on weekdays? This would still cover most journeys and offer double deckers where it’s needed most. Assuming no covid protocols are required anymore too. Not sure if the N30 would need changed.

Should also add Fort Kinnaird would need another link to Princes Street with this idea. Probably covered by ECB.

 

[freddiem]

Here’s a controversial idea. Would it work to swap the eastern termini of the 2 and the 30? Therefore run the 30 with double deckers to The Jewel and the 2 with eVoRa’s to Musselburgh. Say both routes every 15 minutes during the day on weekdays? This would still cover most journeys and offer double deckers where it’s needed most. Assuming no covid protocols are required anymore too. Not sure if the N30 would need changed.

Should also add Fort Kinnaird would need another link to Princes Street with this idea. Probably covered by ECB.

This seems like a good idea in principal, could even just send the 30 via the Fort eg; The Jewel - A1 - Fort Kinnaird - Niddrie etc, and as a result, providing extra buses overall betwen the Fort and Niddrie

 

[computerSaysNo]

Anyone any idea why the new E400MMCs don't track on the 26?
Just seen one going to Tranent but it's not tracking in the app or on lvf.io .
I did notice that they wouldn't track on the 26 when they were first introduced but I assumed they'd fixed that by now.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

This seems like a good idea in principal, could even just send the 30 via the Fort eg; The Jewel - A1 - Fort Kinnaird - Niddrie etc, and as a result, providing extra buses overall betwen the Fort and Niddrie

You could do that, or an extension of the 106 to the City Centre to roughly match the Nightbus route and have the 2 and 30 as I suggested. 106 could be half hourly Edinburgh to Haddington and extend to Dunbar throughout the day (probably every hour, the other being an X7) when East Linton Station is opened up.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Here’s a controversial idea. Would it work to swap the eastern termini of the 2 and the 30? Therefore run the 30 with double deckers to The Jewel and the 2 with eVoRa’s to Musselburgh. Say both routes every 15 minutes during the day on weekdays? This would still cover most journeys and offer double deckers where it’s needed most. Assuming no covid protocols are required anymore too. Not sure if the N30 would need changed.

Should also add Fort Kinnaird would need another link to Princes Street with this idea. Probably covered by ECB.

*gasp* a controversial idea! Shock and horror

To be fair it wouldn’t be the worst idea ever, I don’t think Musselburgh has a direct link to the Gyle Centre, but it would mean they would have to impliment a later evening service to cover the link between Fort Kinnaird and Musselburgh, as far as I’m aware the last 2 from The Jewel currently is at 10:14, and the last 30 from Musselburgh is at 11:13. So would it mean not only swapping the terminuses but also the frequency?

I might be looking too much into this but it’s not impossible, plus the 2 is a good route!

You could do that, or an extension of the 106 to the City Centre to roughly match the Nightbus route and have the 2 and 30 as I suggested. 106 could be half hourly Edinburgh to Haddington and extend to Dunbar throughout the day (probably every hour, the other being an X7) when East Linton Station is opened up.

I do wonder about the future of the 106, as between that or the 108 I can guess folk favour the 106 more, an extension to the city centre would work to be fair, I also suggested in the past an extension to Royal Infirmary via the Wisp, as now the 118 no longer serves that area.

The last 106 from the Fort is at 8:22, not sure how busy it is, but would ECB justify bringing out more buses in the evening? maybe even offering a direct extension to Dunbar by running a late (easy) service so folk don’t have to wait at Haddington for an X7, if timed right they could even be the same 106 buses that do depot runs from Dunbar at night, and the X7’s coming into Dunbar could run off service via the A1 or provide one additional late service to Edinburgh, as the last bus from Dunbar to Edinburgh is at 9:24 currently, could potentially have one more bus at 10:24?

Apologies for all the numbers as I had fun doing a bit of Math here!

 

[overthewater]

We're still waiting on the Southern orbital bus route, It has once again reappeared in the 2030 Action plan. However I still think if Lothian were to bid on the West Lothian tender 40 and advertise to it could do wonders and kick start the scheme.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

We're still waiting on the Southern orbital bus route, It has once again reappeared in the 2030 Action plan. However I still think if Lothian were to bid on the West Lothian tender 40 and advertise to it could do wonders and kick start the scheme.

Wonder what could this be in practicality though? Northern half possibly based on the 33 with the southern bit based on the 400? I have no idea to be honest though as I’m not in the south of the city very often.

 

[Darklord8899]

Here is another controversial idea.... resurrect the 32/52 suburban circle
(Could be amended route wise to cover newer housing developments)

And I rather like Flybe's suggestion of 30 to The Jewel and 2 to Musselburgh (giving an East-West link avoiding the bridges and city centre)

N30 could continue to run "as is" Clovenstone - Musselburgh

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

And I rather like Flybe's suggestion of 30 to The Jewel and 2 to Musselburgh (giving an East-West link avoiding the bridges and city centre)

N30 could continue to run "as is" Clovenstone - Musselburgh

I thought it could work as for years the 30 has needed double deckers and I’ve been trying for a while to find the best compromise to achieve this. I’ve always failed to see why the majority of the East Lothian parts of the 30 have needed a direct link to Princes Street when you consider the train service serves Stoneybank and loads of other buses serve the core part of Musselburgh and how slow the 30 actually is to Princes Street.

The biggest con of this would be the loss of a frequent service from Princes Street to Fort Kinnaird, but so long as other routes such as my idea with the 106 and a second route (to offer a combined every 15 minutes) ran from Fort Kinnaird to Princes Street via Milton Road I think this could work. Ideally you could reroute the 104 to serve Fort Kinnaird but traffic levels prevent this from being possible.

The only other option could be to send the 30 to The Jewel but remain on the main road (not actually serving ASDA), then go onto the A1 and turn around at Fort Kinnaird the same way as the 49 does. Or via Fort Kinnaird, then onto the A1 and terminating at The Jewel as I think @freddiem was suggesting but I wonder if this would leave Duddington Park South short? Mind you it would have the revised 106 plus keeping the 21.

As a few have mentioned service levels would probably have to change for this to work too, very late evening 30’s (something like 11pm onwards) would probably only need to do Clovenstone to Hay Drive (or Fort Kinnaird depending on the option chosen). The 2 could possibly run from somewhere like Bristo Square to Musselburgh again in the very late evenings. The first departure from Bristo Square to Musselburgh could be around 22.30-22.45 on Mondays to Saturdays, and an hour earlier on Sundays. If not Bristo Square maybe Semple Street or Haymarket?

I imagine similar scenarios exist on other routes too, the eastern parts of 30 is a bit I’m more familiar with.

 

[317 forever]

As a starter for ten (or 100, in this case), the Airlink is going up to every 10mins daytime from May 1st.

Increase to Airlink service frequency from 1 May 2022 - Lothian Buses

From Sunday 1 May 2022, the frequency of our Airlink service will be increased in response to customer demand. Service 100 will operate up to every 10 minutes on all days between Edinburgh Airport and the city centre, with night services continuing to operate every 30 minutes. Airlink departs...

www.lothianbuses.com

Flights may be nearly back to normal for the Airlink to be back to every 10 minutes.

For my visit to Edinburgh last June it was only every 30 minutes but about to increase, possibly to every 20 minutes.

 

[BobScott]

Anyone any idea why the new E400MMCs don't track on the 26?
Just seen one going to Tranent but it's not tracking in the app or on lvf.io .
I did notice that they wouldn't track on the 26 when they were first introduced but I assumed they'd fixed that by now.

Not all of the new E400s have AVL (trackers) fitted. Therefore can’t be tracked.