Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[Nottingham59]

"To continue by DLR you must go to the exit gates and tap out".

Have I missed something? Why do people have to tap out? isn't it all one system and you tap out at your final exit from the DLR?

 

[ijmad]

Have I missed something? Why do people have to tap out? isn't it all one system and you tap out at your final exit from the DLR?

Custom House DLR has never had ticket gates, so when they built the Elizabeth Line side they added ticket gates but only for the Elizabeth Line part. It would actually be quite awkward to have the whole station ticketed because the main footbridge also acts as the bridge over the railway to get to ExCeL. I suppose you could have a Whitechapel-style arrangement but I don't know who actually owns the bridge or whether it would cope with crowds.

So you're expected to exit one ticketed zone (by tapping out at the gates) and the enter another ticketed zone by tapping in at the DLR readers. Same confusion in the other direction. There are various places where you're forced through two gatelines when changing mode (e.g. Southwark / Waterloo East) but this seems unique because the DLR doesn't have gates so is messing with the travelling public's expectations.

They might be able to solve this by reconfiguring the gates to automatically recognise a continuing journey, since there have been similar set-ups before as mentioned earlier in the thread (such as the Jubilee line's former gateline at Stratford), but who knows how long this sort of thing takes TfL's technology operation to prepare and roll out. And they have issues at Farringdon and Abbey Wood which might be more pressing, namely a lack of yellow readers to allow customers to switch from a paper NR ticket to a contactless/Oyster TfL fare without exiting the station.

 

[AlbertBeale]

That’s not something I’d heard before.

I could be misremembering ancient stuff about interchanges - maybe I'm mixing it up with prioritising links to the Central at Bond Street and downplaying TCR.

 

[ijmad]

I could be misremembering ancient stuff about interchanges - maybe I'm mixing it up with prioritising links to the Central at Bond Street and downplaying TCR.

Yes, the intention seems to be (or was) to downplay TCR as a Central Line interchange as you can see from the maps in the stations back in 2018 (Post #438) but since Bond Street is not yet open it seems they have put it on the maps at TCR, although I suspect it's temporary and it will be shown just as Northern once Bond Street opens up.

 

[swt_passenger]

I could be misremembering ancient stuff about interchanges - maybe I'm mixing it up with prioritising links to the Central at Bond Street and downplaying TCR.

I expect people will come to their own conclusions and do what they prefer. Do you recall the overhead coloured lights at major places like Kings Cross and Waterloo to help with your cross London journey to the other main BR stations? IIRC they were never updated for the Victoria line, so I spent quite a few years ignoring the lights and going via Oxford Circus as had been recommended by a friend…

 

[Nottingham59]

Custom House DLR has never had ticket gates, so when they built the Elizabeth Line side they added ticket gates but only for the Elizabeth Line part.

Thank you. I'd missed that bit. It seems a rather elementary mistake for TfL to make. You'd have thought they would have had enough years to thnk about this sort of thing before they opened.

Don't they do any sort of usability testing on simulators to model passenger behaviour?

 

[greyman42]

What's the recommended interchange station from the Metropolitan line coming from Metroland?

Farringdon, Moorgate or Liverpool St?
Or carry on sub surface to Whitechapel?
Or wait for Bond St to open, change from Met to Jubilee then change to Crossrail at Bond St?

If you arrive at Moorgate on a BR ticket, are there any barriers to go through to get to the Crossrail platforms?

 

[AlbertBeale]

I expect people will come to their own conclusions and do what they prefer. Do you recall the overhead coloured lights at major places like Kings Cross and Waterloo to help with your cross London journey to the other main BR stations? IIRC they were never updated for the Victoria line, so I spent quite a few years ignoring the lights and going via Oxford Circus as had been recommended by a friend…

Yes - I do remember the little coloured lights above people's heads; a quaint memory (though probably of some use!). Though as a Londoner who'd been on the tube since I was a tot, I was always sure I knew as well if not better anyway!

 

[345 050]

The old (conflicting) route via Platform 2 is still there though, I believe? Indeed for a time I recall services at some times of day still served WIQ while at other times of day they didn't.



...as mentioned in that thread. Some years back I regularly went to the Cineworld at WIQ for which WIQ was the closest station, and Canary Wharf an irritating double-back. Over time it became harder to get a train that actually stopped at WIQ. (Though in the end I found Westferry was a good alternative).

I suppose this is one of these oddities that crops up from time to time and now has history behind it, but naively it does seem rather odd that what is apparently the 'best' station for interchange is served by trains in three directions but not the fourth.

I think the track has been lifted, from what I saw last week there.

 

[JonathanH]

If you arrive at Moorgate on a BR ticket, are there any barriers to go through to get to the Crossrail platforms?

No, and similarly neither to any other part of the Moorgate complex.

 

[345 050]

Regarding the lack of same level interchange at TCR:
From the east you have an actual cross platform interchange at Stratford.
From the West you have a same level interchange at Ealing Broadway coming into town, admittedly a bridge is required coming out.

We have yet to see what the Bond St interchange is like, but expectations are that it will be improved on TCR.

I'm sure they could very well have rebuilt Bond Street with new platforms for cross platform interchange, but this would certainly have increased the budget, not to mention the timescales which are already well behind as we all know.....!

 

[Basil Jet]

The old (conflicting) route via Platform 2 is still there though, I believe? Indeed for a time I recall services at some times of day still served WIQ while at other times of day they didn't.



...as mentioned in that thread. Some years back I regularly went to the Cineworld at WIQ for which WIQ was the closest station, and Canary Wharf an irritating double-back. Over time it became harder to get a train that actually stopped at WIQ. (Though in the end I found Westferry was a good alternative).

I suppose this is one of these oddities that crops up from time to time and now has history behind it, but naively it does seem rather odd that what is apparently the 'best' station for interchange is served by trains in three directions but not the fourth.

It's not obvious from Google that a level straight platform couldn't be easily built along the new track, although it would have to be a bit further south than the other three.

 

[greyman42]

No, and similarly neither to any other part of the Moorgate complex.

Thanks. Are there readers to tap in on?

 

[Steddenm]

I used Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) today for the first time between Liverpool Street and Paddington as I had a couple of hours to kill. Very fast using the line, huge cavernous stations but still a lot of police on the barriers.

Was surprised at the amount of people on board. It was just after 9.30 and the train was packed solid. At Paddington a lot of people got off on Platform B and went straight back on Platform A!

 

[thomalex]

Quick observation from today and I’m increasingly feeling they’ve made a bit of a mistake with the matt concrete panels at passenger level. The long passageway that links to Moorgate Northern line now has numerous footprints on the walls and this is just after a week. Over time I can see these looking very grubby without regular cleaning.

 

[345 050]

Quick observation from today and I’m increasingly feeling they’ve made a bit of a mistake with the matt concrete panels at passenger level. The long passageway that links to Moorgate Northern line now has numerous footprints on the walls and this is just after a week. Over time I can see these looking grubby without regular cleaning.

I saw children running up and down the circular walls the other day. And there are lots of children around this week, it must be school holidays. Yes, they do seem to be getting dirty very quickly ‍♂️

 

[plugwash]

this seems unique because the DLR doesn't have gates

You have the same situation at Limehouse, Ticket barriers on the NR side, validators only on the DLR side. I'm pretty sure it happens in other places too but since TfL don't post passener maps of their stations it's difficult to figure out whether a particular location is interchange behind the barriers or not without actually going there.

 

[StratfordP]

It seems a "Continuation Entry" is the one to go for. I'm interested in this one because I got it at Custom House on opening day. It's not quite apparent how all this never got picked up in the system design or the trials. Did nobody use real Oysters/Contactless in the testing and trials?


Because the Jubilee is every couple of minutes, while to Custom House is both wrong-direction non-intuitive, and only every 8 or 10 minutes.

As TfL are only too aware, significant numbers of travellers take what train geeks would regard as inefficient journeys. The real issue is calling all the stations Canary Wharf, which for many implies a connection between them. It will get more pronounced when the footbridge at Poplar DLR has a couple of extra sections put in, making it the nearest and most convenient DLR station for Canary Wharf Crossrail.

any ideas what the timescales are on that footbridge at poplar?

 

[Envy123]

More so after the Elizibeth line is properly integrated.

Right now you have to change at Paddington whatever you do. So you may as well get the Circle/H&C to Kings Cross St Pancras and get the full choice of trains rather than taking the lizzie to Farringdon and only getting a subset.

You know, once the through Heathrow trains start to run, I may end up taking the direct Thameslink train to Farringdon and changing there for Heathrow, considering heavy bags and luggage and all.

 

[Backroom_boy]

"On a different note - now that West India Quay appears to be the closest interchange for the new Canary Wharf station, does it make sense to continue skipping this stop on Bank-Lewisham DLR trains? I was never quite sure why they started doing that in the first place, but it seems to be even less logical now."
Trains from Bank to Lewisham skip WIQ by using the (fairly) new bypass line that avoids any coonflicting junction - there is no way trains using that track can stop at WIQ. The only way to reintroduce a stop would be to revert to the old track, with two conflicting junctions, not going to happen because you would re-introduce conflicts/delays that the new flypast line is specifically built to remove

Poplar is pretty close too; need a walkway built across but looks like it's already planned as there is a stub of one on the outside of the CW EL station

Edit: ah already mentioned

 

[thomalex]

Having had an explore of the Canary Wharf situation it's not too bad, just needs better signage. For Jubilee exiting at the eastern end of the EL station you have a straight run through the shopping centre and then down escalators to the Jubilee platforms. They need a big sign outside the entrance to the shopping centre which is just to the right when you exit the EL station, a few more signs confirming the route in the shopping centre wouldn't go amiss either.

For DLR I've been thinking about this and I do feel renaming the stations here would help make more sense of it:

Canary Wharf North (formally West India Quay)
Canary Wharf Central
Canary Wharf South (formally Heron Quays)

This would then give you Canary Wharf North and Central as the preferred EL interchanges and Canary Wharf South for Jubilee. Heading out of the EL station passengers would be directed to Canary Wharf North for trains to Bank and Stratford and Canary Wharf Central for trains to Lewisham.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Had a wee ride on Crossrail today, was very impressed with how quickly it crossed the main bit of the city compared to the Central Line... although the Central Line is now tolerable as Crossrail has taken some of the crowds!

A few pointers though:
Paddington is still a mess, with signposts often absent or pointing in the wrong direction. Following "Elizabeth Line" signs from the H&C platform will send you through a building site, past several signs stamped "No Public Access", and on a very circuitous route.

Those nice new escalators seem to be moulting black dust over people's hands, presumably because they're new.

There needs to be posters all over the underground network warning people not to simply stop without warning when walking along a crowded corridor or boarding a busy train, as many seem to have picked up this habit. The posters about letting people off first worked well, so it should work for the ones who step onto trains then stop as soon as they're inside the door. If there are people behind you, they'll keep moving.

 

[ctom_s]

Those nice new escalators seem to be moulting black dust over people's hands, presumably because they're new. <-- maybe the rubber's started disintegrating since they've been sitting there for 4 years waiting to open

 

[345 050]

Another fire alert at Whitechapel this morning. Probably quicker to ask if any station in COS hasn't had a fire alert.

Question about first trains. I know on day 1, there were allowances made for people to join trains from intermediate stations as close to 0630 as possible. But yesterday, my train left at 0628, earlier than the advertised earliest train. Are trains like this, and the 0620 from ABW now in public service? Anyone know what's going on?

 

[iphone76]

Another fire alert at Whitechapel this morning. Probably quicker to ask if any station in COS hasn't had a fire alert.

Question about first trains. I know on day 1, there were allowances made for people to join trains from intermediate stations as close to 0630 as possible. But yesterday, my train left at 0628, earlier than the advertised earliest train. Are trains like this, and the 0620 from ABW now in public service? Anyone know what's going on?

We got an email saying that from Monday people could board trains as soon as stations open at 0620. You'd probably.miss the 0620 but be able to board the next one.

 

[345 050]

We got an email saying that from Monday people could board trains as soon as stations open at 0620. You'd probably.miss the 0620 but be able to board the next one.

Ah ok. So essentially, 0620 is in public service but you are unlikely to be able to board it. And 0623 from Paddington I guess. Cheers.

Wait, I'm probably overthinking this but what if you are at Canary wharf at 0620. Can you join the train that left ABW at 0610?

 

[43102EMR]

So if the Jubilee line is every couple of minutes stay on it. Change at London Bridge for Moorgate and Farringdon, Waterloo for Tottenham Court Road and Baker St for Paddington. I still don’t see Jubilee to Elizabeth line at Canary Wharf to be a major interchange.

As a regular user of both and the DLR, i can say the interchange is quite well used - I’d also argue that Canary Wharf is one of the busiest stations on the new section, and the busiest in Zone 2.

 

[OxtedL]

Wait, I'm probably overthinking this but what if you are at Canary wharf at 0620. Can you join the train that left ABW at 0610?

Yes, that's how it worked on opening day (albeit 10 minutes earlier).

 

[martin2345uk]

So for work on Tuesday I have to get from pitsea station on the c2c, to Stonebridge Park on the bakerloo/DC lines.

I realise the sensible route doesn’t use the EL but what the hell, I wanna try it out after all this time!

What would be the least-daft route involving the EL..?

So annoyingly the District Line was all kinds of messed this morning! so I stayed on the c2c to Fenchurch Street, got the Circle (after a 13 minute wait!) to Liverpool Street, and got the EL to Paddington from there. End to end journey was 1 hour 45 minutes.
Next time I’ll have how much quicker it is via Whitechapel.
The EL stations seemed lovely, a much much nicer travelling experience than the Tube!

 

[PeterC]

Thanks. Are there readers to tap in on?

Moorgate has yellow readers positioned for Northern City Line to Northern Line transfers. I don't know about the ,EL side but I suspect that the use case of people with London Terminals ti kets changing to the EL in the suburbs wasn't thought significant. There are yellow readers at Stratford for interchanging there.