MR-507508
Member
Are all these units suffering from the same fault?
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Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)
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Liverpool 507
Member
They all require some form of attention at Birkenhead North, along with the other 3/4 units at New Brighton. 508128 has been there six weeks.
If anyone is on the Mersey Railways 'Facebook' Group, they may get an update on were No 64691 is heading too, apparently on a low loader heading south? However this info is from a third party though as not seen it myself so could be not fact. Poss a repeat of this movement see: https://news.railbusinessdaily.com/rss-moves-merseyrail-507-unit-to-newport-for-disposal/ Then begs the question why not rail movement and hopefully this is not a precedent for future disposal moves (not exactly environmental friendly)?
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Liverpool 507
Member
The full unit (508143) has been split and remaining two coaches moved by road down to Derby. The remaining two coaches were reported on another forum as being spotted on Acornfield Road in Knowsley Industrial Estate two nights ago, before moving on.
MR-507508
Member
Do you know what units are currently stabled in the Birkdale siding at Southport- one is a face mask unit which appears to have been stabled at least all this week?
I noticed 2 today. I remember that one was 508104 because I was on 508103, but I can’t remember the other one. I think it was 50702x or 50812x something but I could be making it up.
Yea, I leave work to purposely catch a 6-car train on the Ormskirk line and it just hasn't been 6-car at any time I tried to catch it over the last couple of weeks. Think Merseyrail need to pull the "6 car services" page from their website and say all services are 3-car now.
It’s 508104 and 508123 at Southport, not coupled together with 508123 looking very graffitied and carrying a mask.
MR-507508
Member
Thanks, 508123 has suffered bad graffiti attacks over the past few years and still bares the scares from these attacks.
It doesn’t help that the vinyls, not designed to last longer than 5 years are now life expired.
MR-507508
Member
Is there a fault with 508123 at the moment, it seems its been stabled at Southport most of the week?
There has been a diagram short on the Chester line all day today due to a train fault earlier this morning - could 123 not have been used to replace the faulty unit?
There has been a diagram short on the Chester line all day today due to a train fault earlier this morning - could 123 not have been used to replace the faulty unit?
There is a question of how 508123 could have got to Southport if it has a serious fault, but there are likely better candidates to take over another unit’s diagram.
MR-507508
Member
Perhaps it suffered a fault at Southport. It seems there was no suitable unit to take over the Chester diagram as the rest of the diagram was cancelled for the rest of the day.
Liverpool 507
Member
508130 went from Southport to Kirkdale ECS this lunch time. Seems to be a lot unit swapping on this line during the day.
MR-507508
Member
508130 went onto to replace the Kirkby diagram - from it appears 508128 which had a fault.
bristollh
Member
I listed the ones in service today, so you can infer reasonalby from this what was out of use:
Liverpool Central - Kirkby: 507017, 507019, 508128 [EDIT - 508130 reported at replacing 508128 later in the day per MR-507508's post above]
Liverpool Central - Ormskirk: 507001, 570002, 507013, 507018, 507032, 508137
Hunts Cross - Southport: 507008, 507009, 507011, 507026, 507030, 507033, 508103, 508117, 508122, 508136
Chester - Liverpool loop: 507012, 507020, 508108, 508124, 508139, one diagram not covered after 0941 arrival in Chester - 508114 ran empty through Lime Street at 1027, presumably off this working
Ellesmere Port - Liverpool loop: 508111, 508115, 508120
New Brighton - Liverpool Loop (reduced service): 507028, 508141
West Kirby - Liverpool loop: 507010, 507015, 508112, 508125, 508140
507005 and another 507/8 noted in the siding at West Kirby. 777049 noted in various places on the network.
Hope that helps someone.
Jeff
Same fault as all the other units out of service, taken out of service when it got up there earlier in the week and shunted away.
stuart100100
Member
Replacement buses on the Kirkby and New Brighton lines from tomorrow onwards
www.merseyrail.org
Service Disruption
Nicholas Lewis
On Moderation
Wow they really have a major problem on there hands.Replacement buses on the Kirkby and New Brighton lines from tomorrow onwards
Service Disruption
Fleet wide failures like this don't just happen to an established fleet be interesting to know whether the bearings inspection regime has changed?
stuart100100
Member
'Limited replacement buses' doesn't sound very promising and no timetable provided so no way of planning getting anywhere, apart from driving!
dvfmlfc
Member
There's some serious nonsense going on the Northern and Wirral lines at the moment. 40-year old time-expired trains are not going to last much longer. They look so tired to be honest, and those utterly embarrassing vinyls on the sides of the fleet - like everyone "strolls" to the office, and works on their "presentation" on the train, etc, etc......
It's particularly frustrating when a brand new fleet of trains are itching to get out and about from Kirkdale depot. Instead, Merseyrail and the unions can't decide amicably how a second crew member on a new 777 will be utilised.
It's particularly frustrating when a brand new fleet of trains are itching to get out and about from Kirkdale depot. Instead, Merseyrail and the unions can't decide amicably how a second crew member on a new 777 will be utilised.
What happened is Stadler took over the maintenance of the fleet and (in my opinion) have neglected to take good care of them, in the thinking that they would have been withdrawn years ago. Just my opinion - no basis or evidence to that, but I have noticed a steep downward spiral in condition of the units since they took over the maintenance from in house Merseyrail staff.
DJH1971
Established Member
It will only be a matter of time before replacement bus services will apply the whole Merseyrail network.Replacement buses on the Kirkby and New Brighton lines from tomorrow onwards
Service Disruption
Nicholas Lewis
On Moderation
Maybe but to have a common mode failure across the vast proportion of the fleet doesn't feel right. The maintenance staff would be the same and roller wheel bearings are pretty well sealed for life between bogie overhauls.
There's definitely some truth in this in terms of non-essential maintenance such as squeaking anti-roll bars, which have become a lot more prevalent since Stadler took over maintenance. This squeaking is a common problem across PEP-derived and earlier Mark III-derived stock (Glasgow's 314s and 318s were the worst for it) but depots with similar stock elsewhere keep it under control much better.
The situation for tomorrow is a shambles, with no timetable for the "limited bus service" and less than 12 hours' notice. I've only recently switched back to the train for my commute following several months of using the buses; now I'm considering a permanent switch to the slower buses as it has been problem after problem recently.
CaergwrleKen
Member
Would’ve thought the easiest thing to do would be to go say every 20 or 30 on Chester with a Hooton Port shuttle, keep at least something hourly on NB, Kirkby etc. Something on each line is better than nothing.
It would seem relatively reasonable with Stadler taking over maintenance in anticipation of their 777 fleet entering squadron service that the 507/508 fleet would be gradually run down before going for scrap and replacement - so it is quite jarring that they cannot continue to be run down indefinitely without going off a cliff edge such as this, although the expectation for a life expired fleet such as this to continue to run an intensive service indefinitely amid the lack of union acceptance of the new units certainly isn’t reasonable.
Not excusing any deficiencies in the maintenance regime, should there be any, what we certainly don’t want to experience is a hot axle box, especially not while carrying passengers, so they have perhaps done the right thing withdrawing them from service and hopefully this will add urgency to negotiations with the RMT and ASLEF.
The external presentation does leave a lot to be desired now though. The 2014 applied vinyls are now life expired, with evidence of graffiti on many units and the lack of upgrades with new features e.g. on board USB is evident of their intended replacement.
Compare the external presentation and internal cleanliness of 315s still in use in smart white livery, or of 313201 minus graffiti. It is a shame a 507 hasn’t been returned to original livery.
I had been wondering when rail replacement buses are provided, how many people choose simply to use the normal service buses, which they have the option of all the time and are already familiar with. Also how much use is an evening only, rather than peak only service, especially for Kirkby, given that it is one of the busiest destinations, with trains often full leaving Liverpool Central?
D821
Member
I'll have to WfH today because of this. The weekend's announcement didn't say anything about West Kirby line cancellations but it seems to have affected that, too. 3/4 of the WK trains seem to be running, though not my usual one. Given that they'll be 3 car and not 6 and there are no New Brighton trains taking half the passengers from the Birkenhead stations, I really don't fancy risking it. This is going to be carnage.
py_megapixel
Established Member
I think if much more goes wrong with 507s and 508s they'll have to just press the 777s into service with whatever working arrangements the staff are currently used to on the old stock (I think they've now had guard's panels fitted in case they need to do this) and worry about negotiating something different later.
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