Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[Arthington]

Does anyone know if trains are stopping at Whitechapel today? Need to change onto the Overground travelling from Paddington this eve.

 

[theking]

Does anyone know if trains are stopping at Whitechapel today? Need to change onto the Overground travelling from Paddington this eve.

Yes they are.

 

[306024]

At Farringdon, Elizabeth Line eastbound and westbound to Thameslink southbound is a direct platform to platform connection by lift, if you know where to find it (-6 up to -1).

Thanks for this tip. Tried it today from Liverpool St and quite straight forward. Reverse direction easy too with just one escalator. Most of these interchange comments simply seem to stem from unfamiliarity.

The only thing at Liverpool St to bear in mind is just how deep the Elizabeth Line is there. This means people heading for the surface queue for the long escalators to stand on the right rather than opt to walk up the left.

Loadings weren't too bad at 17.30 tonight at Liverpool St, but tube strike v work from home could have distorted that.

 

[345 050]

Signalling problems this morning, looks like they had recovered the service by 0830. Anyone know if the abbey wood siding was needed again?

 

[ijmad]

The only thing at Liverpool St to bear in mind is just how deep the Elizabeth Line is there. This means people heading for the surface queue for the long escalators to stand on the right rather than opt to walk up the left.

There should be somewhat fewer people trying to exit the Elizabeth Line for the surface once the Shenfield trains are through running.

 

[camflyer]

I was in London for the weekend so explored as far as Woolwich in the east to Acton Mainline in the west. All very impressive. I used to think Woolwich was the back of beyond but now it's just a short hop from the City. It really is going to shrink people's perceptions of the geography of London.

The only think I noticed was that the pronunciation of "Woolwich" seemed a bit odd.

 

[345 050]

There should be somewhat fewer people trying to exit the Elizabeth Line for the surface once the Shenfield trains are through running.

Agreed. We are probably in the worst of it now, same at Paddington now with changing between the two stations.

 

[rower40]

Apologies if this has already been answered, but 22 pages of thread is a lot to read through...

Can one stay on board a Westbound train at Paddington, to spend a few (tens of?) minutes in Westbourne Park Sidings while the train turns round?

 

[swt_passenger]

Apologies if this has already been answered, but 22 pages of thread is a lot to read through...

Can one stay on board a Westbound train at Paddington, to spend a few (tens of?) minutes in Westbourne Park Sidings while the train turns round?

No. Trains are cleared by platform staff at Paddington.

 

[rower40]

No. Trains are cleared by platform staff at Paddington.

OK, thanks for the advice. I suppose the platform staff don't know for sure if the train is just turning round in Westbourne Park, or is going empty to Old Oak - and anyway, members of the General Public on board would not be a great idea in either case.

 

[swt_passenger]

OK, thanks for the advice. I suppose the platform staff don't know for sure if the train is just turning round in Westbourne Park, or is going empty to Old Oak - and anyway, members of the General Public on board would not be a great idea in either case.

There is a slight caveat, the early descriptions of the system said that Westbourne Park would be designed to safely allow for passengers to be accidentally over carried, and during the autoreverse. But that was probably ten years ago or more, I think.

 

[mrmartin]

No. Trains are cleared by platform staff at Paddington.

5 staff I believe!

 

[dosxuk]

There is a slight caveat, the early descriptions of the system said that Westbourne Park would be designed to safely allow for passengers to be accidentally over carried, and during the autoreverse. But that was probably ten years ago or more, I think.

IIRC the safety systems involved in the sidings / auto-reverse are specified to be high enough for passenger usage, but there are no plans to allow for this to happen in normal operations. In other words, there doesn't need to be a whole investigation if someone gets accidentally over-carried, but don't expect to get to ride round Kennington Loop style.

 

[ijmad]

Currently the whole central section is on a 12tph, 5 minute service, and they all go to Abbey Wood.

However my understanding was in the final timetable, each eastern branch would get a 10tph, 6 minute service off peak, and the 12tph service would be for the peak only.

So is the Abbey Wood branch currently receiving a better off peak service than it will when through running commences?

 

[345 050]

Apologies if this has already been answered, but 22 pages of thread is a lot to read through...

Can one stay on board a Westbound train at Paddington, to spend a few (tens of?) minutes in Westbourne Park Sidings while the train turns round?

Absolutely not. Lots of staff at Paddington to make sure trains are empty.

Currently the whole central section is on a 12tph, 5 minute service, and they all go to Abbey Wood.

However my understanding was in the final timetable, each eastern branch would get a 10tph, 6 minute service off peak, and the 12tph service would be for the peak only.

So is the Abbey Wood branch currently receiving a better off peak service than it will when through running commences?

Yes, I'm confused about the intermediate phase from Autumn 2022. There will be 16tph off peak. Now is that going to be 8tph Abbey Wood and 8tph Shenfield? The only consolidation is that the central section will be 16tph, but stations to Abbey Wood will have quite a reduction. Not necessarily a capacity problem, but it will be reduced level of service which is interesting to note.

 

[James H]

Presumably because of the signalling problems mentioned above, my EL train from Farringdon to TCR was packed this morning.

 

[Mikey C]

Absolutely not. Lots of staff at Paddington to make sure trains are empty.


Yes, I'm confused about the intermediate phase from Autumn 2022. There will be 16tph off peak. Now is that going to be 8tph Abbey Wood and 8tph Shenfield? The only consolidation is that the central section will be 16tph, but stations to Abbey Wood will have quite a reduction. Not necessarily a capacity problem, but it will be reduced level of service which is interesting to note.

8tph is plenty though, and Abbey Wood's platforms might be able to cope better with a 7.5 minute frequency!

 

[306024]

There should be somewhat fewer people trying to exit the Elizabeth Line for the surface once the Shenfield trains are through running.

Yes spot on. It just saddened me that people who looked perfectly fit specimens (I know you can't really tell) just waited rather than take the opportunity for some daily exercise.

 

[FGW_Lad]

How is the interchange at Farringdon between Thameslink & the Elizabeth line? I’m flying from Gatwick in July so was looking at Paddington - Farringdon - Gatwick.

 

[ijmad]

How is the interchange at Farringdon between Thameslink & the Elizabeth line? I’m flying from Gatwick in July so was looking at Paddington - Farringdon - Gatwick.

While everyday commuters might complain it's a wee longer than they'd like, it's perfect for a one time trip from the Elizabeth Line to Thameslink with luggage, as there's full lift service. It's by far the best way to do the journey you describe.

 

[FGW_Lad]

While everyday commuters might complain it's a wee longer than they'd like, it's perfect for a one time trip from the Elizabeth Line to Thameslink with luggage, as there's full lift service. It's by far the best way to do the journey you describe.

Great thanks for the advise. I always find the Circle line between Paddington & Victoria cramped and then the Southern trains are almost usually packed heading towards the South. Have used Thameslink before to Gatwick and it always seems quieter at Farringdon so fingers crossed this route will benefit more people.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

While everyday commuters might complain it's a wee longer than they'd like, it's perfect for a one time trip from the Elizabeth Line to Thameslink with luggage, as there's full lift service. It's by far the best way to do the journey you describe.

But what are the queues for the lift going to be like once regulars figure that the lift is only the way to avoid a fair bit of walking?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast, the much hyped Elizabeth Line must look a bit underwhelming and overrated. I can't imagine many of the everyday public know that it will soon be joined up to create a fantastic commuter railway.

I only say this because to them, it's something constantly described in the news as costing hundreds of billions of pounds and being an absolutely ground-breaking railway, and then when it finally does open, it's a complicated set of three entirely separate lines, with very awkward walks and ascents/descents between them. Many will see no difference between Elizabeth line and what they've been commuting on for the past five or six years - the West end has a large 2tph section, the East end is still being served by some of the old crappy trains from the 80s in peak hours (both have had no difference to TFL Rail but a name change), and the Central section is effectively a fairly short limited stop shuttle between the extremities of Central London - which doesn't even run on Sundays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for the eventual joining up of the network, the 315s finally being scrapped and the looming massive increase in frequency. I think Crossrail is a fantastic achievement. But all I'm saying is I can certainly see reasons to why Joe Public, who likely don't know it's opening in stages, might be underwhelmed.

 

[Horizon22]

Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast, the much hyped Elizabeth Line must look a bit underwhelming and overrated. I can't imagine many of the everyday public know that it will soon be joined up to create a fantastic commuter railway.

I only say this because to them, it's something constantly described in the news as costing hundreds of billions of pounds and being an absolutely ground-breaking railway, and then when it finally does open, it's a complicated set of three entirely separate lines, with very awkward walks and ascents/descents between them. Many will see no difference between Elizabeth line and what they've been commuting on for the past five or six years - the West end has a large 2tph section, the East end is still being served by some of the old crappy trains from the 80s in peak hours (both have had no difference to TFL Rail but a name change), and the Central section is effectively a fairly short limited stop shuttle between the extremities of Central London - which doesn't even run on Sundays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for the eventual joining up of the network, the 315s finally being scrapped and the looming massive increase in frequency. I think Crossrail is a fantastic achievement. But all I'm saying is I can certainly see reasons to why Joe Public, who likely don't know it's opening in stages, might be underwhelmed.

That doesn’t seem to be my interpretation from taking to non-enthusiasts, especially Londoners.

They are amazed by the scale, the speed, how fast it is comparable to previous journeys, the “new age” infrastructure and how quiet the trains are. Sure some of the walks are long & fiddly, but so are some London Underground interchanges (Bank or Green Park anyone?) and when you’re trying to weave a new line through C.London and extant infrastructure it’s bound to be. It’s no more complicated operationally than say the Overground and the current situation is temporary. You’d be rather unlucky to be on a 315.

Of course it’s not perfect and East/West passengers haven’t yet seen a huge difference but if that is your view of what non-enthusiasts think it’s either a) a minority view or b) you’ve not spoken to enough of them!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Of course it’s not perfect and East/West passengers haven’t yet seen a huge difference but if that is your view of what non-enthusiasts think it’s either a) a minority view or b) you’ve not spoken to enough of them!

It’s not my view, I just wondered

 

[Horizon22]

It’s not my view, I just wondered

I mean you said “Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast” so obviously it’s your view to some degree!

Which is fair, just don’t think it’s borne out in reality.

 

[Hadders]

Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast, the much hyped Elizabeth Line must look a bit underwhelming and overrated. I can't imagine many of the everyday public know that it will soon be joined up to create a fantastic commuter railway.

I only say this because to them, it's something constantly described in the news as costing hundreds of billions of pounds and being an absolutely ground-breaking railway, and then when it finally does open, it's a complicated set of three entirely separate lines, with very awkward walks and ascents/descents between them. Many will see no difference between Elizabeth line and what they've been commuting on for the past five or six years - the West end has a large 2tph section, the East end is still being served by some of the old crappy trains from the 80s in peak hours (both have had no difference to TFL Rail but a name change), and the Central section is effectively a fairly short limited stop shuttle between the extremities of Central London - which doesn't even run on Sundays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for the eventual joining up of the network, the 315s finally being scrapped and the looming massive increase in frequency. I think Crossrail is a fantastic achievement. But all I'm saying is I can certainly see reasons to why Joe Public, who likely don't know it's opening in stages, might be underwhelmed.

This is well wide of the mark, based on my observations of normal passengers on the Elizabeth Line. When you see normal passengers stopping to take pictures of new stations then you know it's not underwhelming.

 

[AM9]

... and when has "the news" described Crossrail as "costing hundreds of billions of pounds"?

 

[345 050]

Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast, the much hyped Elizabeth Line must look a bit underwhelming and overrated. I can't imagine many of the everyday public know that it will soon be joined up to create a fantastic commuter railway.

I only say this because to them, it's something constantly described in the news as costing hundreds of billions of pounds and being an absolutely ground-breaking railway, and then when it finally does open, it's a complicated set of three entirely separate lines, with very awkward walks and ascents/descents between them. Many will see no difference between Elizabeth line and what they've been commuting on for the past five or six years - the West end has a large 2tph section, the East end is still being served by some of the old crappy trains from the 80s in peak hours (both have had no difference to TFL Rail but a name change), and the Central section is effectively a fairly short limited stop shuttle between the extremities of Central London - which doesn't even run on Sundays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for the eventual joining up of the network, the 315s finally being scrapped and the looming massive increase in frequency. I think Crossrail is a fantastic achievement. But all I'm saying is I can certainly see reasons to why Joe Public, who likely don't know it's opening in stages, might be underwhelmed.

I've been on the Elizabeth Line almost every day since the line opened. And everyone I have observed has been hugely impressed and overwhelmed by the scale and finish of the stations and trains. If anything, enthusiasts have been slightly more negative, but still overwhelming positive overall.

That doesn’t seem to be my interpretation from taking to non-enthusiasts, especially Londoners.

They are amazed by the scale, the speed, how fast it is comparable to previous journeys, the “new age” infrastructure and how quiet the trains are. Sure some of the walks are long & fiddly, but so are some London Underground interchanges (Bank or Green Park anyone?) and when you’re trying to weave a new line through C.London and extant infrastructure it’s bound to be. It’s no more complicated operationally than say the Overground and the current situation is temporary. You’d be rather unlucky to be on a 315.

Of course it’s not perfect and East/West passengers haven’t yet seen a huge difference but if that is your view of what non-enthusiasts think it’s either a) a minority view or b) you’ve not spoken to enough of them!

Yes exactly what I've seen as well. The general public seem VERY impressed.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Personally, I think to the average non-enthusiast, the much hyped Elizabeth Line must look a bit underwhelming and overrated. I can't imagine many of the everyday public know that it will soon be joined up to create a fantastic commuter railway.

I only say this because to them, it's something constantly described in the news as costing hundreds of billions of pounds and being an absolutely ground-breaking railway, and then when it finally does open, it's a complicated set of three entirely separate lines, with very awkward walks and ascents/descents between them. Many will see no difference between Elizabeth line and what they've been commuting on for the past five or six years - the West end has a large 2tph section, the East end is still being served by some of the old crappy trains from the 80s in peak hours (both have had no difference to TFL Rail but a name change), and the Central section is effectively a fairly short limited stop shuttle between the extremities of Central London - which doesn't even run on Sundays.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for the eventual joining up of the network, the 315s finally being scrapped and the looming massive increase in frequency. I think Crossrail is a fantastic achievement. But all I'm saying is I can certainly see reasons to why Joe Public, who likely don't know it's opening in stages, might be underwhelmed.

I suggest that you go to Abbey Wood and observe how many passengers coming in from the street go straight to the Elizabeth Line platforms. I also recommend that you note how many people change to the Elizabeth Line from trains coming from the south. These are "average non-enthusiasts" and they clearly rate the Elizabeth Line highly.