Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[mrmartin]

According to TfL they are “preparing a long-term solution” to this issue, as was stated on a whiteboard upon arrival at the Elizabeth Line Farringdon platforms:

Quiet mad this was forgotten about really?! Given TL at farringdon was always one of the most important interchanges for longer distance passengers!

An update on the 4G situation too, from TfL twitter

Good afternoon
Wi-Fi access within the tunnels on the Elizabeth line will be introduced later in 2022. Customers on both trains and platforms will have access to 4G connectivity this year too.
Regards, Darran

So hopefully not much longer. I think a bunch of other lines are scheduled to get 4G turned on towards the end of the year too.

 

[thomalex]

According to TfL they are “preparing a long-term solution” to this issue, as was stated on a whiteboard upon arrival at the Elizabeth Line Farringdon platforms:

Surely they could draft in a couple of validators quite quickly, even if they were temporary for now.

 

[JaJaWa]

Surely they could draft in a couple of validators quite quickly, even if they were temporary for now.

Over here in Hong Kong, one of the new stations opened recently with some issues with the placement of gatelines... they were instantly able to bring out a "temporary / portable gateline" (which they can also use in the event of gates failing or to add more capacity temporarily)...

 

[345 050]

I've been looking into the missing interchanges on Crossrail. I thought there were just two but I've discovered a third that would have been really useful:

1. Farringdon link to Barbican Circle, H&C and Met lines - This was to be built into far west side of the Barbican platforms with passengers travelling up from the EL to a new footbridge emerging out of the embankment walls and stairs/lifts down to the platforms. You can see the end building that would have been demolished to build this connection with windows boarded up on Street View here. This was envisaged to be the main interchange with the Circle, H&C and Met lines and explains why the connection at Farringdon is sub par having to cross the street. I'm not sure why or when this was dropped but it seems plans were quite well developed and property bought.
2. Tottenham Court Road link to Central line - The was to be built onto the end of the new passageway which runs parallel to the Central and plans show at some point this would have had a seperate run of escalators running up to Dean Street connecting this entrance in with the Central and Northern lines along with a low level link from the EL platforms. It's now anticipated this link will be constructed as part of Crossrail 2 which will sit underneath the EL. You may notice there is space at the Dean Street entrance to add a fourth escalator when/if Crossrail 2 comes about. The reason for this seems to be the preferred connection with the Central line taking place at Bond Street and it was seen as unnecessary until Crossrail 2 was built which would be a key connection. It's a shame to lose the access to the Underground from Dean Street however costs had to be reigned in somewhere I guess.
3. Paddington link to Circle and District lines - This was a surprise but actually makes a lot of sense. This short link was planned from the far south eastern end of the EL concourse and would run under Praed Street linking with Circle and District line station. If anyone here has used the existing narrow tunnel under Praed Street you will know how overloaded this can become and it's a shame this wasn't built to add much needed capacity here along with being able to interchange without having to traverse the mainline station. Why was this dropped? I've read that the link to the Bakerloo, originally planned as a relatively shallow tunnel, had to be dug at a lower level that anticipated and this added to cost. I presume it was dropped in a response to this with the Bakerloo link prioritised. I can however see this link being needed sooner rather than later given how overloaded the existing Praed Street tunnel is.

View attachment 115494

One of the reasons the existing Praed Street tunnel is so bad at the moment is because the dedicated Bakerloo access is closed. This should be eased substantially once the new Paddington Bakerloo station is opened, I think that's due this year. Not sure of the exact nature of where this will spew out the passengers tho, I don't know if it's going to be close to where the old dedicated Bakerloo line entrance was by platform 11/12?

 

[cambsy]

With the long bank holiday weekend, and the queen Platinum jubilee, coming up, how busy will the EL line,likely get from Thursday to Sunday? And will we likely see it face, its first stern test, of running at or above capacity for prolonged periods? What is the theoretical capacity at the moment?.

 

[JonathanH]

With the long bank holiday weekend, and the queen Platinum jubilee, coming up, how busy will the EL line,likely get from Thursday to Sunday? And will we likely see it face, its first stern test, of running at or above capacity for prolonged periods? What is the theoretical capacity at the moment?.

Given its location relative to any relevant jubilee events I can't imagine it being particularly busier than it has been so far.

 

[345 050]

Investigated further the Northern line interchanges at TCR and Moorgate today. As previously reported on here, the one at TCR is super handy. Moorgate is a different kettle of fish. Although there is a direct link which bypasses the ticket hall, I'm not yet convinced it's quicker. It's composed of two long passages, and involves two sets of stairs. For some reason the signs pointing to it on the Southbound platform are blanked out and there are still (redundant?) no entry signs on the entry to the passage. These are not present on the Northbound platform, and the sign on the northbound platform has been revealed. Note, there is lift options available via this passage, but there's a lot of walking required!

 

[CeeJ]

If/when they install validators at Abbey Wood I hope they work better than the National Rail -> DLR validator at Woolwich Arsenal. Great for tapping into the DLR on Oyster but never accepted The Key (so you would have to find another place to 'tap out' first!).

 

[JaJaWa]

If/when they install validators at Abbey Wood I hope they work better than the National Rail -> DLR validator at Woolwich Arsenal. Great for tapping into the DLR on Oyster but never accepted The Key (so you would have to find another place to 'tap out' first!).

Yes I was thinking that if they (theoretically) put a gateline between Thameslink and Elizabeth line at Farringdon, they would actually have to put 2. One for you to touch out with The Key, and another one to touch in with Oyster / contactless.

 

[345 050]

Yes I was thinking that if they (theoretically) put a gateline between Thameslink and Elizabeth line at Farringdon, they would actually have to put 2. One for you to touch out with The Key, and another one to touch in with Oyster / contactless.

If/when they install validators at Abbey Wood I hope they work better than the National Rail -> DLR validator at Woolwich Arsenal. Great for tapping into the DLR on Oyster but never accepted The Key (so you would have to find another place to 'tap out' first!).

Yeah, the signage at Abbey Wood simply said that you need to touch out and then touch in again. Nothing about a Future Solution like as promised at Farringdon. What's The Key? Never heard of it. Is it a generic ITSO technology?

 

[JaJaWa]

Yeah, the signage at Abbey Wood simply said that you need to touch out and then touch in again. Nothing about a Future Solution like as promised at Farringdon. What's The Key? Never heard of it. Is it a generic ITSO technology?

The Key is an ITSO card, so if you were using it to just store a ticket you wouldn’t need to touch in/out. But you can also add a PAYG balance called KeyGo which works like Oyster PAYG.

 

[345 050]

The Key is an ITSO card, so if you were using it to just store a ticket you wouldn’t need to touch in/out. But you can also add a PAYG balance called KeyGo which works like Oyster PAYG.

Thanks for explaining.

I never really got the point of storing a ticket on a digital ticket. Sounds like too much of a faff, might as well just use a paper ticket if you still need a ticket. It's a bit like buses outside London which now accept contactless. But it's still a faff because you still have to ask for a specific ticket. Step in right direction I guess.

 

[matt_world2004]

Their comment on Option 1 mentions the operational impact of running two separate services on one pair of tracks but completely ignores the not inconsiderable problems of SE being 3rd rail and the Lizzie being 25kv OLE.

Class 345s have passive provisionnfor third rail shoes fitted into their specification. It is relatively easy to add them

 

[AM9]

Class 345s have passive provisionnfor third rail shoes fitted into their specification. It is relatively easy to add them

OK, I didn't know that. So is intended to be as easy as it is on a Desiro?

 

[matt_world2004]

OK, I didn't know that. So is intended to be as easy as it is on a Desiro?

I think it basically just requires the shoes to be fitted

 

[345 050]

With the long bank holiday weekend, and the queen Platinum jubilee, coming up, how busy will the EL line,likely get from Thursday to Sunday? And will we likely see it face, its first stern test, of running at or above capacity for prolonged periods? What is the theoretical capacity at the moment?.

I think the bigger challenge will be the tube strike on the Monday. Signs up at Paddington saying that queuing systems will be in place for the Elizabeth Line.

 

[djw]

One of the reasons the existing Praed Street tunnel is so bad at the moment is because the dedicated Bakerloo access is closed. This should be eased substantially once the new Paddington Bakerloo station is opened, I think that's due this year. Not sure of the exact nature of where this will spew out the passengers tho, I don't know if it's going to be close to where the old dedicated Bakerloo line entrance was by platform 11/12?

There will be two entrances to the new Bakerloo ticket hall.

One is off the old Carriage Road, not too far from the old platform 11/12 entrance, though I believe you leave the station under the arch.

The second is on the corner of Praed Street and Tanner Lane.

I have attached an image from one of the planning applications, which I cannot link to as Westminster's planning portal does not allow deep linking.

 

[Horizon22]

There will be two entrances to the new Bakerloo ticket hall.

One is off the old Carriage Road, not too far from the old platform 11/12 entrance, though I believe you leave the station under the arch.

The second is on the corner of Praed Street and Tanner Lane.

I have attached an image from one of the planning applications, which I cannot link to as Westminster's planning portal does not allow deep linking.

Yes I believe it is part of the Paddington Square development which is being built just outside the station.

 

[djw]

Yes I believe it is part of the Paddington Square development which is being built just outside the station.

Correct - this is confirmed on the TfL web page about the Bakerloo ticket hall.

The Paddington Square development incorporates the Carriage Road area into "The Piazza". It also incorporates the former London Road between Praed Street and Winsland Street - that road has been extinguished and Tanner Lane was created to give access to Winsland Street.

I have no idea where the smokers who congregated along the Carriage Road will be displaced to.

 

[Horizon22]

Correct - this is confirmed on the TfL web page about the Bakerloo ticket hall.

The Paddington Square development incorporates the Carriage Road area into "The Piazza". It also incorporates the former London Road between Praed Street and Winsland Street - that road has been extinguished and Tanner Lane was created to give access to Winsland Street.

I have no idea where the smokers who congregated along the Carriage Road will be displaced to.

Probably Eastbourne Terrace either side of the new Elizabeth Line entrances - or shunted up Praed Street!

 

[Watershed]

I have no idea where the smokers who congregated along the Carriage Road will be displaced to.

...who persist in smoking right in front of Byelaw 3 notices (prohibiting smoking)!

 

[ijmad]

I have no idea where the smokers who congregated along the Carriage Road will be displaced to.

I honestly don't care, Brunel's station deserves a better main entrance than that grubby concrete ramp and if this development makes that area nicer I'm all for it.

 

[345 050]

Correct - this is confirmed on the TfL web page about the Bakerloo ticket hall.

The Paddington Square development incorporates the Carriage Road area into "The Piazza". It also incorporates the former London Road between Praed Street and Winsland Street - that road has been extinguished and Tanner Lane was created to give access to Winsland Street.

I have no idea where the smokers who congregated along the Carriage Road will be displaced to.

A large number of smokers have moved to the opposite side of the station by the Elizabeth Line entrance.....

Probably Eastbourne Terrace either side of the new Elizabeth Line entrances - or shunted up Praed Street!

Yes, they really need to look into smoking regulations on Eastbourne, it's quite unpleasant....

 

[Taunton]

One hears the continual station announcements about trains at "Platform A" or "Platform B".

Has it been noticed that there are seemingly no signs at all showing in this manner which of the platforms are being referred to.

It's at least pleasing to report that the two escalators down to the platform at Custom House, which for the first week operated in the reverse direction to the fixed signage pointing to them, have now had their directions changed to correspond with this.

 

[modernrail]

I honestly don't care, Brunel's station deserves a better main entrance than that grubby concrete ramp and if this development makes that area nicer I'm all for it.

Agreed! I have always been convinced I am missing the ‘real’ grand entrance since I arrived in London over 10 years ago.

I don’t think they have got it quite right around the EL entrance either.

I think this is one of the things they didn’t get quite right at St P when it was remodelled. The ground entrances to Euston Road feel very non-main entrance and the way they configured the tube station at that end makes you feel like walking out into the streets of London is somehow not what you are meant to be doing. Very different feel to the entrance/exit on the KX side.

According to TfL they are “preparing a long-term solution” to this issue, as was stated on a whiteboard upon arrival at the Elizabeth Line Farringdon platforms:

Oh dear. Didn’t take long for the old white board to come out did it. Not exactly an easy instruction to follow in a massive, unfamiliar new station either.

 

[nlogax]

Has it been noticed that there are seemingly no signs at all showing in this manner which of the platforms are being referred to.

Apart from the big signs at the base of platform escalators pointing the way to platforms A and B? Or do you mean something else?

 

[kctrainsman]

Did a quick search and noticed that no one has mentioned in the forum.

There is a new series of 15 billion pound railway scheduled on BBC 2, starting on the 12th

BBC Two - The 15 Billion Pound Railway

Ten thousand engineers and construction workers race to complete Crossrail.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[pelli]

One hears the continual station announcements about trains at "Platform A" or "Platform B".

Has it been noticed that there are seemingly no signs at all showing in this manner which of the platforms are being referred to.

Apart from the big signs at the base of platform escalators pointing the way to platforms A and B? Or do you mean something else?

Is it like on the Tube where almost every sign that says "North/South/East/Westbound" also says "Platform X" but even frequent users (like me) can go years without realising that the platforms have numbers because we're so focused on just looking at the information we seek (X-bound, and the line diagram showing the stations) while subconsciously blocking out everything else?

For example, in this Geoff Marshall video, looking just at the Paddington station bit from 0:51 onward:
* The first shot is of an announcer standing in front of a Platform Edge Door wall that says "Westbound Platform B"
* The second shot is of a train arriving, with an overhead sign showing "Westbound Platform B" and a similar PED wall sign as above
* The third shot is of Geoff standing under two escalators, with big line diagram signs titled "Westbound Platform B" and "Eastbound Platform A"
The only signage that does not say A/B on it seems to be the live departure information above each PED.

It does appear (from other youtube videos) that in stations with separate platform tunnels for the two directions, the signage is mainly concentrated to the junctions between passageways (again stating both direction and letter), and there are fewer signs on the platforms themselves stating what the current platform is (for example, this video tour of Whitechapel station by Ismail's Transport Network, from 5:50 to 10:50 shows a walk along the eastbound platform but I can only see two signs - one at each end - showing "Eastbound Platform A", and I can't see any line diagrams at all). If the announcements at those platforms mention "Platform A/B" then it would be good if signs stating "Platform A/B" could be visible from every point on the platform.

 

[Class 170101]

What's the recommended interchange station from the Metropolitan line coming from Metroland?

Farringdon, Moorgate or Liverpool St?
Or carry on sub surface to Whitechapel?
Or wait for Bond St to open, change from Met to Jubilee then change to Crossrail at Bond St?

Changing as fewer times as possible is always better so if coming from Metroland to Canary Wharf change at Moorgate / Liverpool Street, a double change to go via Whitechapel or changing at Bond Street via Jubilee Line will always add time.

So you're expected to exit one ticketed zone (by tapping out at the gates) and the enter another ticketed zone by tapping in at the DLR readers. Same confusion in the other direction. There are various places where you're forced through two gatelines when changing mode (e.g. Southwark / Waterloo East) but this seems unique because the DLR doesn't have gates so is messing with the travelling public's expectations.

Except Bank and Stratford DLR areas are definitely behind a gateline and I guess Lewisham and Greenwich are too so I don't understand why Custom House wasn't put behind the gateline too. It wouldn't be the first DLR station to be behind a gateline.

Living in sunny Basildon I have wondered what is the quickest way to get onto Crossrail.
Upminster-Romford
West Ham - Jubilee - Stratford
West Ham - District - Whitechapel
Some means from Fenchurch St which would involve walking to one of Tower Hill, Aldgate or straight to Liv St.

I suspect the Jubilee line method would win

If you just want to have a play with it and no specific purpose day or time for needing to go, go on Saturdays and you can get direct services to Liverpool Street on c2c and change there for Crossrail.

It's a real pain in the proverbial to make work though, hence why there are no long stretches with both types of electrification. The changeover sections on NLL/TL, and dual-electrified stretches out of Euston are kept to a minimum for a good reason.

I seem to recall the NLL was dual voltage between Channelsea Jn and Dalston Kingsland historically (it isn't now) and thats quite a way - not just a changeover length.

 

[ijmad]

Except Bank and Stratford DLR areas are definitely behind a gateline and I guess Lewisham and Greenwich are too so I don't understand why Custom House wasn't put behind the gateline too. It wouldn't be the first DLR station to be behind a gateline.

The whole overbridge can't be behind the gates because it's also an entrance to ExCeL, so the station can't be gated as a whole.

Though you could put gates across the 4x DLR entrances too, I suppose.