Rail strikes discussion

[Need2]

Check the calling pattern and time of their next service? Walk to the platform where the next service will depart from? Unlock doors? Set the information display with the right destination? None of those involve actually driving the train

Thus proving both you and the OP do not know what you’re typing about!

 

[nanstallon]

Lady I often bump into at lunchtime works for an insurance company. Says she is one of the few in her section who leaves the office for lunch & that it appears frowned upon. Many she says actually continue to work even though they are not even paid for lunch breaks. Crazy unless you’re getting something out of it like an earlier day but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

I didn't make it an iron rule, but I nearly always took my hour off for lunch either in the canteen or going into town. If there was a job that needed finishing, fair enough I'd work through my lunch hour, just grabbing a sandwich from the canteen, but not as a regular thing. Give and take OK, but not when it's all take on one side!

 

[dk1]

I didn't make it an iron rule, but I nearly always took my hour off for lunch either in the canteen or going into town. If there was a job that needed finishing, fair enough I'd work through my lunch hour, just grabbing a sandwich from the canteen, but not as a regular thing. Give and take OK, but not when it's all take on one side!

Yes it became a slippery slope. Such a different and wonderful world once i transferred into traincrew.

 

[northwichcat]

Thus proving both you and the OP do not know what you’re typing about!

I know a lot more about the legal requirements for breaks during work than most people on here seem to. Just because it's the industry expectation or there's an agreement between a union and an employer doesn't make it legally required.

Drivers need longer breaks from driving than from working by law. That's what you and @newtownmgr don't seem to want to believe. A driver unlocking the door, boarding a train and reviewing the timetable for their next service is working but they aren't driving at that point. If you think that's legally classed as driving you better tell the government to come up with a replacement for the trackers in buses, lorries and coaches, to ensure they track the hours the drivers are working but aren't driving.

 

[newtownmgr]

Check the calling pattern and time of their next service? Walk to the platform where the next service will depart from? Unlock doors? Set the information display with the right destination? None of those involve actually driving the train.



You were discussing how management briefs the media. That's not the same as what's published on a webpage or in an article. Journalists and website editors quote the bits that fit with their spin of the topic, especially so in the case of the Daily Mail, Daily Express and the Socialist Worker which are all bias.

Checking the calling pattern,setting up the cab is built into the walking time after the break.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2022 ==

I know a lot more about the legal requirements for breaks during work than most people on here seem to. Just because it's the industry expectation or there's an agreement between a union and an employer doesn't make it legally required.

Drivers need longer breaks from driving than from working by law. That's what you and @newtownmgr don't seem to want to believe. A driver unlocking the door, boarding a train and reviewing the timetable for their next service is working but they aren't driving at that point. If you think that's legally classed as driving you better tell the government to come up with a replacement for the trackers in buses, lorries and coaches, to ensure they track the hours the drivers are working but aren't driving.

If you know the legal requirements for the railway & how it works, I presume you are a driver or at least work for the railway. I’m guessing actually not tho given you actually don’t understand! I know how drivers diagrams work & the legal requirements involved having been on the railway for nearly 35 years most of that as a driver. I know a few lorry & coach drivers. When they return to the vehicle & put the key in the new digital Tachos start Recording & count towards there hours. Loading/unloading go on the drivers hours as well in the case of lorry drivers.

 

[wobman]

Your sheer arrogance in assuming that anyone who doesn't agree with your source must not have read it is frightening. I did read it. I don't work in the railway industry. I thought that it was 90+% crap.

I'm just amazed anyone believed that article at all, it's even worse some actually took it as a serious piece of journalism.

 

[northwichcat]

If you know the legal requirements for the railway & how it works, I presume you are a driver or at least work for the railway.

If there legal requirements they will be on the relevant legislation page on gov.uk, alongside all the other employment and transport legislation. Funny how I can find all these special rules for ship workers, who need to remain on their ship overnight but I can't find legal special exceptions for train drivers that you seem to be inferring. What's in industry only internal documents only is agreed practices, not the law.

 

[newtownmgr]

If there legal requirements they will be on the relevant legislation page on gov.uk, alongside all the other employment and transport legislation. Funny how I can find all these special rules for ship workers, who need to remain on their ship overnight but I can't find legal special exceptions for train drivers that you seem to be inferring. What's in industry only internal documents only is agreed practices, not the law.

So you are saying we can work a 10 hour shift without a legal break.

 

[northwichcat]

It seems the RMT are marching to End Rail Jobs, Pay and Conditions! If only someone had bothered to check the preview of their video before posting it to the world!

https://twitter.com/RMTunion/status/1538131373705273345

Our delegation is off! #WeDemandBetter (Video)

(Preview of video covers the letters de on defend on a banner, meaning the message on the RMT tweet displays as END Rail Jobs Pay Conditions)

 

[43066]

It seems the RMT are marching to End Rail Jobs, Pay and Conditions! If only someone had bothered to check the preview of their video before posting it to the world!

View attachment 116432

That’s a little unfortunate!!!

 

[windingroad]

Breaks from driving are also necessary and need to be more substantial. However, a break from driving doesn't have to be a break from working altogether.

Sure, maybe it doesn't have to be a break from working altogether, but why shouldn't it be?

 

[northwichcat]

So you are saying we can work a 10 hour shift without a legal break.

No. I have already said that EVERY worker must have a break from all work if the shift lasts at least 6 hours. However, the legal requirement is only for a 20 minute break. That must mean they do no work during that period. For example, if a receptionist leaves a reception desk and then stops to help a customer before reaching a break room then they did not start their break until after they finished helping the customer.

I also said drivers are legally required to have longer breaks from driving.

So I'm saying if you alight a train and stop to help a customer then it eats in to your break from work but not your break from driving.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Is it true that the RMT are demanding an 11% rise?

That is what they are starting their negotiations at, yes. Nobody believes that is what will ever get offered but if you ask for 5% which is much more realistic, you'd get offered 2% like NR just offered it's staff

 

[SJN]

Sure, maybe it doesn't have to be a break from working altogether, but why shouldn't it be?

According to ACAS an employee is entitled to an uninterrupted test break of at least 20 mins after working 6 hours. This should be taken away from their workstation.

 

[windingroad]

According to ACAS an employee is entitled to an uninterrupted test break of at least 20 mins after working 6 hours. This should be taken away from their workstation.

I think we're discussing breaks over and above that legally mandated period.

 

[northwichcat]

Sure, maybe it doesn't have to be a break from working altogether, but why shouldn't it be?

If there was major disruption and it would affect your next service, would you rather be told about it when you arrive on the platform to find no train there or attend a briefing during your driving break where you can get information and ask relevant questions?

 

[windingroad]

If there was major disruption and it would affect your next service, would you rather be told about it when you arrive on the platform to find no train there or attend a briefing during your driving break where you can get information and ask relevant questions?

I would rather take my driving break in peace and then be informed once it was over.

 

[SJN]

If there was major disruption and it would affect your next service, would you rather be told about it when you arrive on the platform to find no train there or attend a briefing during your driving break where you can get information and ask relevant questions?

Lol. We don’t get a briefing about disruption full stop. Control might call but more often than not we have to chase them.

 

[Need2]

I still fail to see or be shown what a driver can do when he is on a break from driving.

 

[windingroad]

I still fail to see or be shown what a driver can do when he is on a break from driving.

Look busy, or something. Can't have those awful overpaid drivers having any time to relax, can we?

 

[Need2]

or attend a briefing during your driving break where you can get information and ask relevant questions?

You have absolutely no idea how anything on the railway works.
Unless you read it!

 

[trundlewagon]

So I'm saying if you alight a train and stop to help a customer then it eats in to your break from work but not your break from driving.

A break is not a break if you're still working.

Seeing as lorries and tachographs have been mentioned a few times - If you've driven 4 and a half hours and do 'other work' for 25 minutes followed by a 20 minute break, you can't set off driving again because "well actually, I've had a 45 minute break from driving, you see"

 

[High Dyke]

According to ACAS an employee is entitled to an uninterrupted test break of at least 20 mins after working 6 hours. This should be taken away from their workstation.

That's a bit difficult to achieve in a one-room signal box. Though there are times when I can manage to get a 20-minute gap between trains.

 

[newtownmgr]

No. I have already said that EVERY worker must have a break from all work if the shift lasts at least 6 hours. However, the legal requirement is only for a 20 minute break. That must mean they do no work during that period. For example, if a receptionist leaves a reception desk and then stops to help a customer before reaching a break room then they did not start their break until after they finished helping the customer.

I also said drivers are legally required to have longer breaks from driving.

So I'm saying if you alight a train and stop to help a customer then it eats in to your break from work but not your break from driving.

No. I have already said that EVERY worker must have a break from all work if the shift lasts at least 6 hours. However, the legal requirement is only for a 20 minute break. That must mean they do no work during that period. For example, if a receptionist leaves a reception desk and then stops to help a customer before reaching a break room then they did not start their break until after they finished helping the customer.

I also said drivers are legally required to have longer breaks from driving.

So I'm saying if you alight a train and stop to help a customer then it eats in to your break from work but not your break from driving.

Actually you are wrong. It doesn’t eat into your break from work as that doesn’t actually start until you are in the designated PNB point. However if you stop to purchase food & drink, that does as you have chosen to extend your walking time.
Your answer obviously proves to me at least that you aren’t on the railway & not the expert you think you are. Conversation over!!

 

[345 050]

Surely this thread has exhausted the union or anti union debate.
Let's save it for facts or even sensible opinions about whats happening with the rail strike.
Not going off on tangents about amateur economics.

I think we genuinely need another thread for actual information about the strike. Having waded through 10+ pages of this thread, looking for actual useful information, I can confirm it is 90%+ opinions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2022 ==

If this is the case, and your arguments sound reasonable, although it costs money, not relying on RDW but actually hiring more drivers, sounds like a great way for the industry to head. I doubt it will happen though. Shappsy will go on about driverless trains I fear.

Rest Day Working?

 

[lineclear]

Let's put this to bed. The ORR make a distinction between breaks and rotating workers around different tasks. For driving tasks, they recommend a short break every three hours. They go on to discuss the quality of breaks.

The ORR would not issue a safety certificate to a TOC that did not adequately manage the fatigue of drivers, and a TOC that did not allow drivers breaks would certainly not meet this requirement.

The legislation underpinning this is the MHSWR and the ROGS.

 

[theageofthetra]

The NR dispute is also about and more importantly staff cuts in maintainance, (and we know what the result of that would be) if you are happy for maintainance to be cut back even further....fair enough !

A notice case full of 20 ESRs on some of the busiest routes in London on my return to work today confirms how bad its getting.
This is what the RMT and railway press should be putting in the public domain.


The disgraceful state of the foilage will hopefully come to a head once the full report onto Salisbury comes out.

 

[newtownmgr]

A notice case full of 20 ESRs on some of the busiest routes in London on my return to work today confirms how bad its getting.
This is what the RMT and railway press should be putting in the public domain.


The disgraceful state of the foilage will hopefully come to a head once the full report onto Salisbury comes out.

Exactly.

 

[eldomtom2]

A consensus reached by a range of Wikipedia editors who come from all sorts of political perspectives.

It would be accurate to say that Wikipedia leans left both in its institutions and its userbase. Further, its reliance on academia compounds the left bias...

 

[windingroad]

It would be accurate to say that Wikipedia leans left both in its institutions and its userbase. Further, its reliance on academia compounds the left bias...

Does that mean the Daily Mail is a reliable source after all? That's the context in which Wikipedia was mentioned, so let's avoid drifting off onto another tangent for everyone to argue about.