British heritage lines which are returning to normal, post Covid-19 restrictions.

[Ediswan]

I'm not sure if Snowdonia Mountain Railway is really a heritage line, it's doing what it was always built for and possibly the first visitor focused line, the railway being built as part of the package of the main attraction. And does the first train arrive before the Cafe at the top opens or do staff walk up to open it before it arrives?

When open, which it is currently not, I believe there are dedicated service trains.

 

[bramling]

You've all reminded me that Snowdonia is on my list to do, so is the mountain railway. I must make sure I investigate doing it before the school holidays when it will inevitably be busy, I'm guessing it's possible to book the train coming down and not have to pay for it both ways? I want to do the walk up, for the challenge, but will happily rest on the train back!

Dodgy to be honest, though not sure it things are different at the moment with trains only running to Clogwyn.

The only way you can ride down is if there’s a spare space, which will only happen in practice if someone has decided to take the train up and walk down. My understanding is this doesn’t become apparent until the down service is ready to depart. There can often be quite a few people looking to travel down, and it’s not unknown for staff to get quite a bit of grief where people turn up and expect a ride down and don’t like it when they’re told there’s no space. I’ve known people to claim “I’m injured, you should evict someone off the train so I can travel”.

Essentially you can certainly walk up and if you get a ride down then it’s a bonus, but it’s not practicable to plan on that basis, therefore you have to take the view that if walking up then you need to be prepared to walk down too.

The best way to do the whole thing is to walk up and down, and then do the train ride up and down separately. As I said before, June is the perfect time to do the walk, and if one strings it out into the evening the downward walk will be pretty magical on a nice day with considerably fewer people about. We did it leaving the summit at around 1930, barely saw a soul all the way.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Fares from Llanberis to Clogwyn are, I believe, £25 single (uphill only) or £35 return (there and back down, and you have to travel back on the same train you travelled up on).

Downhill only standby single tickets cannot be pre-booked.

£3.50 transaction/booking fee applies.

£6 reduction on the return fare if travelling up on the 9.00 a.m. diesel service.

£10 premium on the return fare if travelling on the 10.30 a.m. or 1.00 p.m. steam service and no singles available.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When open, which it is currently not, I believe there are dedicated service trains.

The trains have to take the food, drink and water up and the, er, human byproducts, down, so there will I guess be separate ones.

 

[trebor79]

Dodgy to be honest, though not sure it things are different at the moment with trains only running to Clogwyn.

What's the reason for them only going to Clogwyn at the moment?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's the reason for them only going to Clogwyn at the moment?

The need for trackworks on the upper section, I believe.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What's the reason for them only going to Clogwyn at the moment?

@Bletchleyite is correct. Necessary / overdue track refurbishment work on the one-and-a-bit mile section uphill from Clogwyn. The summit building (Hafod Eryri) will therefore also be closed in 2022.

 

[Techniquest]

Dodgy to be honest, though not sure it things are different at the moment with trains only running to Clogwyn.

The only way you can ride down is if there’s a spare space, which will only happen in practice if someone has decided to take the train up and walk down. My understanding is this doesn’t become apparent until the down service is ready to depart. There can often be quite a few people looking to travel down, and it’s not unknown for staff to get quite a bit of grief where people turn up and expect a ride down and don’t like it when they’re told there’s no space. I’ve known people to claim “I’m injured, you should evict someone off the train so I can travel”.

Essentially you can certainly walk up and if you get a ride down then it’s a bonus, but it’s not practicable to plan on that basis, therefore you have to take the view that if walking up then you need to be prepared to walk down too.

The best way to do the whole thing is to walk up and down, and then do the train ride up and down separately. As I said before, June is the perfect time to do the walk, and if one strings it out into the evening the downward walk will be pretty magical on a nice day with considerably fewer people about. We did it leaving the summit at around 1930, barely saw a soul all the way.

Yikes! Yes I will do the walk both ways then, and especially liking the idea of doing the walk on a June evening. I might have a plan forming here, plenty to research!

The railway, well it can wait until the line is fully open, no point paying significant ching to do only half the line! I don't do track as such these days, but it would be silly to not do the whole thing!

Thanks for the advice, the rest of my planning I'll take to a separate thread later tonight.

 

[davetheguard]

Still in place at BVR; allocated compartments and trains last weekend with screens separating compartments.

Intermediate stations closed “until further notice”

Well, I made my first ever visit to the Bure Valley in the end last week. Arriving in Wroxham on one of Greater Anglia's smart new trains, we travelled only one way on the BVR as, after visiting Aylsham, we caught the bus back to Norwich.

Observations:

1. We bought our tickets on the day at the ticket office
2. No insistence on pre-booking only; the train was very sparsely loaded anyway
3. Not allowed on platform to board the train which was sitting there empty at first, reason unclear
4. Allocated seats in a "compartment" created by Covid screens within an open coach; not allowed to sit anywhere else. My name was asked for and printed on the ticket
5. No travel allowed to or from intermediate stations
6. None of the stations appear to incorporate any architecture from the previous standard gauge railway; the intermediate ones are very basic indeed, being little more than a strip of concrete beside the track and a nameboard
7. Scenery is pleasant although as quite a lot of the line is in cutting, I'd say riding the National Rail line from Norwich to Sheringham has more to offer in that respect
8. All a bit underwhelming really.
9. Would I go back? Norfolk overwhelmingly yes! The BVR? Probably not, bit too bossy for my liking. But could be fun for parents with young children.

 

[nanstallon]

..., bit too bossy for my liking. But could be fun for parents with young children.

I feel that the pandemic has been a bit of a jobsworth's charter, as if some people enjoy ordering others around, long after the restrictions have generally ended in the country at large. A pity, as the BVR is a pleasant line, and I enjoyed my trip in autumn 2019.

 

[bramling]

Gwili Railway, all pre-booking by the looks of things, £65 for one trip in a compartment. Despite being in the area, we won’t be bothering.

 

[nanstallon]

Gwili Railway, all pre-booking by the looks of things, £65 for one trip in a compartment. Despite being in the area, we won’t be bothering.

Even now? Incredible.

 

[midland1]

Do some of these railways look around and see that other railways have been back to normal for months if not a year or more!

 

[paul1609]

Gwili Railway, all pre-booking by the looks of things, £65 for one trip in a compartment. Despite being in the area, we won’t be bothering.

Don't think your looking very hard. I can find open seating from £15 per person. Pre booking to a degree is the future and is everything to do with with massive cost increases and nothing to do with covid. The days of small rural railways running a public transport type turn up and go service are gone whether you like it or not. It's just not viable anymore.

 

[12C]

Pre booking to a degree is the future and is everything to do with with massive cost increases and nothing to do with covid. The days of small rural railways running a public transport type turn up and go service are gone whether you like it or not. It's just not viable anymore.

I think that’s open to debate, I visit heritage railways fairly regularly and in my observation the lines insisting on pre booking are looking increasingly quieter than those offering turn up and go, or making it clear both options are available. I get the impression having to commit to a certain day/time puts a lot of people off (it certainly does for me), or those looking at visiting on a whim see ‘pre booking is essential’ on the website and decide not to bother thinking they will be turned away.

 

[paul1609]

I think that’s open to debate, I visit heritage railways fairly regularly and in my observation the lines insisting on pre booking are looking increasingly quieter than those offering turn up and go, or making it clear both options are available. I get the impression having to commit to a certain day/time puts a lot of people off (it certainly does for me), or those looking at visiting on a whim see ‘pre booking is essential’ on the website and decide not to bother thinking they will be turned away.

I don't think it's open to debate amongst the heritage railways financial directors. Certainly in the Southeast general attendances are down, income from retail and catering sources has been in decline for some years prior to the pandemic. What's paying for the railways now is premium priced experience activities, Events Santa, Luxury Dining etc. No two railways circumstances are the same but I'm afraid the general trend is inevitable however much that is unpalatable to a small percentage of the customer base.

 

[12C]

I don't think it's open to debate amongst the heritage railways financial directors. Certainly in the Southeast general attendances are down, income from retail and catering sources has been in decline for some years prior to the pandemic. What's paying for the railways now is premium priced experience activities, Events Santa, Luxury Dining etc. No two railways circumstances are the same but I'm afraid the general trend is inevitable however much that is unpalatable to a small percentage of the customer base.

I can only comment on what I have seen myself, but out of the 2 lines closest to me one has returned to pre covid normality - turn up on the day, travel on whichever train you want etc and the other is still insisting on pre booking, allocated seats and prescribed times. Both equally popular before covid but there’s a noticeable difference in passenger numbers now. One has been as busy as ever and the other our reserved seats are often in an otherwise empty coach.

Sadly the declining passenger numbers are going to be a trend this year, especially compared to last year. The staycation boom is over and UK tourism will not see the same surging crowds as the past 2 summers as people are desperate to get abroad again. Personally apart from the special events you mention I don’t think any insistence on having to pre book or silly restrictions such as forcing you where to sit, making passengers stand in the rain outside the station before the train is ready to depart, not allowing flexibility when to return, closing intermediate stations (where often there will be a nice walk or picnic area to make the most of the day) are helping their situation.

 

[Falcon1200]

So, yesterday I made an enquiry via Facebook Messenger to Didcot Railway Centre, their auto-reply included this:
'Currently, all tickets must be booked in advance.'

I enquired further as to whether this still applied, no response so far, however their website says this:
'Please arrive within the timeslot you have booked. Please do not arrive more than 10 minutes before the time shown on your booking and please try to arrive no later than 30 minutes after the time shown on your booking. If you are a little later, we will accommodate you, but the booking slots are in place to spread arrival times and keep queuing to a minimum.'

Which I find utterly astonishing, given where we are with Covid now, plus the fact that Didcot is a large, spread out site with huge open air areas. I was considering visiting next weekend, but I require flexibility, so if booking in advance for a specific time is still mandatory, I will not be going.

 

[bramling]

I don't think it's open to debate amongst the heritage railways financial directors. Certainly in the Southeast general attendances are down, income from retail and catering sources has been in decline for some years prior to the pandemic. What's paying for the railways now is premium priced experience activities, Events Santa, Luxury Dining etc. No two railways circumstances are the same but I'm afraid the general trend is inevitable however much that is unpalatable to a small percentage of the customer base.

I don't think it's open to debate amongst the heritage railways financial directors. Certainly in the Southeast general attendances are down, income from retail and catering sources has been in decline for some years prior to the pandemic. What's paying for the railways now is premium priced experience activities, Events Santa, Luxury Dining etc. No two railways circumstances are the same but I'm afraid the general trend is inevitable however much that is unpalatable to a small percentage of the customer base.

I don't think it's open to debate amongst the heritage railways financial directors. Certainly in the Southeast general attendances are down, income from retail and catering sources has been in decline for some years prior to the pandemic. What's paying for the railways now is premium priced experience activities, Events Santa, Luxury Dining etc. No two railways circumstances are the same but I'm afraid the general trend is inevitable however much that is unpalatable to a small percentage of the customer base.

I suspect there’s going to be an element of having to get real with this. For comparison, £65 can buy me a year’s English Heritage membership, which offers a damn sight more value for money than a not-especially-scenic couple of miles in a Mk1 compartment.

As has been said before, filling trains in this way might have been do-able over the last two years when there’s been a glut of “staycation” tourists, with spare money to spend, looking for things to do. There’s no way in a million years this is going to be sustained going forward, indeed looking at Trip Adviser there’s plenty of disappointed reviews where people have been tempted by the glitzy publicity along the lines of “beautiful scenic relaxing journey in luxurious vintage train”, which turns out not to be quite matched by reality.

I’m strongly of the view that some of these railways will be storing up problems for the future if they think they can successfully charge very high prices for low quality experiences. People only have to be bitten once paying a large sum of money to sit in a tired Mk1 complete with inevitable screaming baby, stale scones, BR-type sandwiches and in some cases indifferent or even surly staff, to decide not to repeat the experience, especially when as exemplified above there are other ways of spending money which offer infinitely better value.

Some railways seem to have managed to return to the old ways and seem to be making a success of doing so, these places must be getting something right.

So, yesterday I made an enquiry via Facebook Messenger to Didcot Railway Centre, their auto-reply included this:
'Currently, all tickets must be booked in advance.'

I enquired further as to whether this still applied, no response so far, however their website says this:
'Please arrive within the timeslot you have booked. Please do not arrive more than 10 minutes before the time shown on your booking and please try to arrive no later than 30 minutes after the time shown on your booking. If you are a little later, we will accommodate you, but the booking slots are in place to spread arrival times and keep queuing to a minimum.'

Which I find utterly astonishing, given where we are with Covid now, plus the fact that Didcot is a large, spread out site with huge open air areas. I was considering visiting next weekend, but I require flexibility, so if booking in advance for a specific time is still mandatory, I will not be going.

The staycation boom is certainly over. Last year we were finding hotels booked solid. This year that simply isn’t the case, indeed at this point there’s plenty of availability in many places even on Friday and Saturday nights. With the “cost of living issues” this is only going to continue.

 

[Falcon1200]

Some railways seem to have managed to return to the old ways and seem to be making a success of doing so, these places must be getting something right.

Each of the four preserved railways I have visited so far this year, for Gala events, was entirely back to normal ; No pre-booking, no specified trains, no sit here or else etc. They are worthy of an honourable mention:

Great Central Railway
Severn Valley Railway
Epping Ongar Railway
North Norfolk Railway

Thanks to them all !

 

[midland1]

I went to Didcot a month or two back I booked the day before .When I got there I asked the girl on the gate if you still had to book ahead she said no, I asked on the way out again the answer was no.

 

[Cymroglan]

So, yesterday I made an enquiry via Facebook Messenger to Didcot Railway Centre, their auto-reply included this:
'Currently, all tickets must be booked in advance.'

I enquired further as to whether this still applied, no response so far, however their website says this:
'Please arrive within the timeslot you have booked. Please do not arrive more than 10 minutes before the time shown on your booking and please try to arrive no later than 30 minutes after the time shown on your booking. If you are a little later, we will accommodate you, but the booking slots are in place to spread arrival times and keep queuing to a minimum.'

Which I find utterly astonishing, given where we are with Covid now, plus the fact that Didcot is a large, spread out site with huge open air areas. I was considering visiting next weekend, but I require flexibility, so if booking in advance for a specific time is still mandatory, I will not be going.

I honestly think this reflects the inept way they run the website. I have been to Didcot twice this year without booking, paid at the gate as normal without any interrogation about why I hadn’t booked. Many railways simply don’t bother updating their website. For example, a miniature railway near me is holding a Golden Arrow weekend right now, complete with miniature Channel Packet and Lord Nelson locos, but you wouldn’t know it from their website!

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

I recently rode on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway - my journey started at Wootton, because of bus connections and where I was going afterwards, so my experience here may be similar to Smallbrook Junction, but won't be the same as Havenstreet.

I could have booked online, as "encouraged", but hadn't worked out what I was going to do until the day (I changed my plans the whole week depending on timings), and when I had decided, I couldn't get the website to work on my phone! I didn't expect a problem though, and sure enough, there wasn't.

Arrived early, was greeted by the friendly stationmaster/booking office person, who enquired if I'd already booked. Said no, no problem, we can sort that out. Asked if I minded sharing a compartment (no), and then asked what time train I wanted to be back on. I asked his advice how long he thought I'd need at Havenstreet, given it has been about 20 years since I'd been there, and he advised the train after the one I'd arrived on (so just shy of 2 hours, rather than travelling immediately onwards on the one 35 minutes after I arrived). That was the one I'd expected I'd need anyway, and the advice was just right. There was enough time to walk around the various things to do and stop in the cafe before boarding the train. Spent the rest of time waiting for my train putting the world to rights with the signalman.

Neither of the couples (a young couple with a toddler and a 'pensioner' couple) I shared with seemed fussed by the interloper - I sat on one side of the compartment, they on the other and we had a nice chat. The allocated compartments seemed popular, with the majority of people seeming to appreciate the "service" and knowing there was room rather than having to guess whether you'd have to share or how far up the train to go. Because the staff were spread out along the platform, it also meant there were people able to help with pushchairs and the like.

All in all, a very pleasant morning out. Having to choose a train and sit in a specified compartment (I imagine you could express a preference, but I was quite happy two down from the front of the train) may not please the purists, but the general public didn't seem to mind.

Spot on. Not everyone is a ''gricer'' and many ''normals'' will be pleased to book early and secure a reserved seat plus a modest discount. Their priorities are likely to be pleasant staff and being able to see through the carriage windows.

 

[robert thomas]

Don't think your looking very hard. I can find open seating from £15 per person. Pre booking to a degree is the future and is everything to do with with massive cost increases and nothing to do with covid. The days of small rural railways running a public transport type turn up and go service are gone whether you like it or not. It's just not viable anymore.

No problem just turning up and booking on the day as usual

 

[Taunton]

"Segmenting the Market", breaking potential patrons down into groups and then only catering to some of them, is the sort of thing those with lesser degrees in Economics think is the way to run a business. Real commercial/sales people want to be able to get all the groups in, together, and indeed know that only by doing so can you have the remotest chance of getting the revenue to cover your costs. Be friendly to every potential opportunity.

 

[John Luxton]

So, yesterday I made an enquiry via Facebook Messenger to Didcot Railway Centre, their auto-reply included this:
'Currently, all tickets must be booked in advance.'

I enquired further as to whether this still applied, no response so far, however their website says this:
'Please arrive within the timeslot you have booked. Please do not arrive more than 10 minutes before the time shown on your booking and please try to arrive no later than 30 minutes after the time shown on your booking. If you are a little later, we will accommodate you, but the booking slots are in place to spread arrival times and keep queuing to a minimum.'

Which I find utterly astonishing, given where we are with Covid now, plus the fact that Didcot is a large, spread out site with huge open air areas. I was considering visiting next weekend, but I require flexibility, so if booking in advance for a specific time is still mandatory, I will not be going.

Thanks for the heads up on Didcot. I last went in 1983 and had been thinking of taking a trip in two weeks time when I am having a few days near Chepstow. Plan was to drive to Bristol Parkway and go by train (future rail strikes permitting. Having done a quick glance on their web site noting that they were having steam days on Wednesdays at end of June early July I was just going to go if the weather was nice and providing GWR trains are running okay from BPW. I don't want to commit to it now as it could turn into a long drive. I didn't realise booking a timeslot in advance was necessary. Guess I won't be going then.

Another customer lost.

 

[Cymroglan]

"Segmenting the Market", breaking potential patrons down into groups and only catering to some of them, is the sort of thing those with lesser degrees in Economics think is the way to run a business. Real commercial/sales people want to be able to get all the groups in, together, and indeed know that only by doing so can you have the remotest chance of getting the revenue to cover your costs. Be friendly to every potential opportunity.

I think you’ve absolutely nailed that!
It’s very interesting that Tate galleries abandoned their insistence on booking before one visits a few weeks ago. Other London galleries & museums are now back pedalling on insisting on “pre booking” too. Money talks! It is idiotic to turn money away for not committing in advance to a visit!

 

[Taunton]

It’s very interesting that Tate galleries abandoned their insistence on booking before one visits a few weeks ago. Other London galleries & museums are now back pedalling on insisting on “pre booking” too. Money talks! It is idiotic to turn money away for not committing in advance to a visit!

Funny you should mention that because we were actually turned away from the Tate Modern door a couple of months ago. As we were principally interested in their (not cheap) top floor restaurant, it was a considerable revenue loss for them, apart from the annoyance, which I still hold against them. You couldn't even get into the shop without going through the admission either.

 

[David Burrows]

Visited Great Central Railway on a recent ordinary service Wednesday, normal turn-up and buy ticketing applied - sit anywhere, travel as and when you liked. Trains not full but well loaded.
In my opinion any railway making passengers continue to book in advance for 'ordinary' travel deserve to have empty trains. I am not going to book in advance to be restricted to when and where I can travel, especially if I have to travel at considerable expense by train or car to get to the railway.
A lot of 'casual' travel is done on decisions made on the day, weather playing a big part. Many years ago I used to volunteer on the Bluebell Railway - if it was hot and sunny on the Sussex coast, travellers on the railway were fairly low, but a chilly or wet day at the coast would result in our trains being full and queues at the booking office. This couldn't happen if you could only book on-line in advance.

 

[stuu]

A lot of 'casual' travel is done on decisions made on the day, weather playing a big part. Many years ago I used to volunteer on the Bluebell Railway - if it was hot and sunny on the Sussex coast, travellers on the railway were fairly low, but a chilly or wet day at the coast would result in our trains being full and queues at the booking office. This couldn't happen if you could only book on-line in advance.

Why not? Most people (87% of UK adults in 2019) have a smartphone. Booking from your hotel room before setting off saves you having to queue up