British heritage lines which are returning to normal, post Covid-19 restrictions.

[Cymroglan]

Funny you should mention that because we were actually turned away from the Tate Modern door a couple of months ago. As we were principally interested in their (not cheap) top floor restaurant, it was a considerable revenue loss for them, apart from the annoyance, which I still hold against them. You couldn't even get into the shop without going through the admission either.

Your experience is a good illustration of the “cutting my nose to spite my face” attitude of many businesses, whether railways, art galleries, museums etc who got lazy during the crazy times! “No booking no entry” they said. “No entry no money for you” we said!
Pre pandemic I was a Friend +1 of all the major London galleries & museums, I used the memberships a lot with family and friends. It certainly impressed some young(ish) ladies! I maintained my membership through the lockdowns, because I do love these places, but let them all expire as the venues persisted post lockdown with the insistence that everyone, including Friends had to book.
I had a standard email I sent to them all as my membership came up for renewal in which I explained in a non hostile way my reasons for not renewing. Only the Tate gave me a personal reply, at the start of this year and the author hinted that their position might change subject to how the numbers worked out. It seems the numbers have worked out now! However, I’m not rushing to rejoin, I’ll wait and see….

 

[Falcon1200]

I went to Didcot a month or two back I booked the day before .When I got there I asked the girl on the gate if you still had to book ahead she said no

I have been to Didcot twice this year without booking, paid at the gate as normal

Thanks for the updates.

Thanks for the heads up on Didcot.

As above, pre-booking is no longer required.

 

[John Luxton]

Thanks for the updates.



As above, pre-booking is no longer required.

Thanks for that info.

Planned trip back on future strikes and weather permitting.

They really do need to update their web site - as I had even missed the fact one did have to book in advance - I had merely looked at days they were open.

John

 

[Taunton]

Possibly a lesser list now is which lines continue to require advance booking. Are there any left?

There are also those which, even from pre-Covid days, are difficult if you have not booked in advance. The Snowdon Mountain has long been like this, I've never managed to get there on the day and found any availability.

 

[John Luxton]

Possibly a lesser list now is which lines continue to require advance booking. Are there any left?

There are also those which, even from pre-Covid days, are difficult if you have not booked in advance. The Snowdon Mountain has long been like this, I've never managed to get there on the day and found any availability.

Apart from SMR and FWHR Observation Cars in peak season I can't think of any lines I visit which have necessitated pre-booking.

I must admit when I tend to visit heritage lines I always aim to get there very early and invariably am on the first train of the day before the crowds arrive especially at peak holiday periods.

 

[12C]

Possibly a lesser list now is which lines continue to require advance booking. Are there any left?

The Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway website says only single tickets can be bought at the station, returns have to be booked online via Fareharbor. You are also seemingly not allowed to break your journey at Bolton Abbey, and have to return on the same train you set off on. So if you were thinking of taking the short walk to visit the village and beautiful Priory ruins, as many visitors did previously, it’s a no-no.

 

[Ken H]

"Segmenting the Market", breaking potential patrons down into groups and then only catering to some of them, is the sort of thing those with lesser degrees in Economics think is the way to run a business. Real commercial/sales people want to be able to get all the groups in, together, and indeed know that only by doing so can you have the remotest chance of getting the revenue to cover your costs. Be friendly to every potential opportunity.

Segmenting the market means serving all groups, but with different product. A Supermarket selling own brand and branded Weetabix is doing that. Many will buy the branded one cos its 'better' even though the contents are nearly identical. Ignoring one segment is not normally considered segmenting.

First class and second class is segmenting. OK you get a better seat in First but you still end up at the same place at the same time.

 

[John Luxton]

The Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway website says only single tickets can be bought at the station, returns have to be booked online via Fareharbor. You are also seemingly not allowed to break your journey at Bolton Abbey, and have to return on the same train you set off on. So if you were thinking of taking the short walk to visit the village and beautiful Priory ruins, as many visitors did previously, it’s a no-no.

I am wondering how Fareharbor appeared to become the default booking method for most lines during Covid?

Was it recommended by someone?

I had wondered if it was developed in response to the pandemic but it appears to have been around for 9 years being based in the USA. Until the railways started reopening I had not even heard of it and I imagine that is true for most.

As for the Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway perhaps they need to change their name if you can't walk to the Abbey!!!

I have only visited the railway once and that was in the 1990s with a school party I was with staying nearby at Bardon Tower Bunk Barn and my recollection was despite visiting shortly before the school summer holidays just how quiet the railway was. Does it get that busy?

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway website says only single tickets can be bought at the station, returns have to be booked online via Fareharbor. You are also seemingly not allowed to break your journey at Bolton Abbey, and have to return on the same train you set off on. So if you were thinking of taking the short walk to visit the village and beautiful Priory ruins, as many visitors did previously, it’s a no-no.

That's actually not correct.

I travelled on the line from Embsay to Bolton Abbey about ten days ago. Whilst I was told that I should return on the same train, I was also told that if I wanted to return on a later train, I should speak to staff at Bolton Abbey and they'd arrange this for me. As it happened, I decided not to stay there and returned on the same train, but I could have done so if I'd have wanted to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am wondering how Fareharbor appeared to become the default booking method for most lines during Covid?

Was it recommended by someone?

I'd imagine one line used it and others copied. They do talk to one another. And there are probably not that many options that are cheap and easy to set up, anyway. Eventbrite would be another option, but it doesn't work quite as cleanly for selling timed departures.

 

[12C]

That's actually not correct.

I travelled on the line from Embsay to Bolton Abbey about ten days ago. Whilst I was told that I should return on the same train, I was also told that if I wanted to return on a later train, I should speak to staff at Bolton Abbey and they'd arrange this for me. As it happened, I decided not to stay there and returned on the same train, but I could have done so if I'd have wanted to.

In that case they should make it clearer on the website, as there is no option at all to book a later train back and no mention of being able to arrange it, on the website or social media. Also, being told that you ‘should’ return on the same train isn’t exactly putting customers first when the main attraction at the other end is visiting the Priory, or taking a walk around it’s grounds. It was one of the main things the railway had going for it was such a popular tourist attraction on the doorstep.

At the end of the day people can only go off the information provided on the railway’s websites. If this is incorrect or not updated they will risk losing custom. I was certainly put off visiting Embsay because of the restrictions. It almost seems like some railways don’t want visitors back.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

In that case they should make it clearer on the website, as there is no option at all to book a later train back and no mention of being able to arrange it, on the website or social media. Also, being told that you ‘should’ return on the same train isn’t exactly putting customers first when the main attraction at the other end is visiting the Priory, or taking a walk around it’s grounds. It was one of the main things the railway had going for it was such a popular tourist attraction on the doorstep.

At the end of the day people can only go off the information provided on the railway’s websites. If this is incorrect or not updated they will risk losing custom. I was certainly put off visiting Embsay because of the restrictions. It almost seems like some railways don’t want visitors back.

I understand what you mean, and it confused me as well.

So, I sent then an e-mail, and that's what they told me - very quickly, as it happened. I know that it's not ideal and could be improved, but it worked for me.

 

[railfan99]

Visited Great Central Railway on a recent ordinary service Wednesday, normal turn-up and buy ticketing applied - sit anywhere, travel as and when you liked. Trains not full but well loaded.
In my opinion any railway making passengers continue to book in advance for 'ordinary' travel deserve to have empty trains. I am not going to book in advance to be restricted to when and where I can travel, especially if I have to travel at considerable expense by train or car to get to the railway.
A lot of 'casual' travel is done on decisions made on the day, weather playing a big part. Many years ago I used to volunteer on the Bluebell Railway - if it was hot and sunny on the Sussex coast, travellers on the railway were fairly low, but a chilly or wet day at the coast would result in our trains being full and queues at the booking office. This couldn't happen if you could only book on-line in advance.

I am Australian and should be visiting UK in 2022.

I've previously been on NYMR "pre COVID" but disappointingly note it requires prebooking for some trains such as 'Service A and Service B' to 'manage capacity'.

If one books from Whitby on 'A', you may have to spend more than three hours in Pickering. For railway enthusiast patrons, it's not possible to return on 'B' shortly after arrival in Pickering: one must wait for the 'Moors Explorer' (unbooked, but doesn't operate every day) or the later return of Service 'A'.

I vastly prefer to just turn up, purchase a Day Rover (or return ticket if not offered) and travel. Prebooking is a turnoff.

Contrast NYMR with the WSR (have yet to travel on latter) where most/all days, one can 'front', pay for a ticket at the booking office and hop on the next train.

 

[12C]

I understand what you mean, and it confused me as well.

So, I sent then an e-mail, and that's what they told me - very quickly, as it happened. I know that it's not ideal and could be improved, but it worked for me.

I just can’t quite understand it myself why they choose to operate like this. In my opinion you shouldn’t have to have to arrange with staff at the other end to be permitted to return later. At any point before Covid you could set off, take a walk at the other end, visit the Priory, have a picnic or lunch out somewhere and return on any train you wanted. It was a very pleasant day out.

The Embsay isn’t usually a particularly busy line, I’ve certainly never seen a shortage of seats even in school holidays. Ironically the KWVR a short distance away manages much higher visitor numbers and has been back to normal for about a year now.

 

[Iskra]

I am Australian and should be visiting UK in 2022.

I've previously been on NYMR "pre COVID" but disappointingly note it requires prebooking for some trains such as 'Service A and Service B' to 'manage capacity'.

If one books from Whitby on 'A', you may have to spend more than three hours in Pickering. For railway enthusiast patrons, it's not possible to return on 'B' shortly after arrival in Pickering: one must wait for the 'Moors Explorer' (unbooked, but doesn't operate every day) or the later return of Service 'A'.

I vastly prefer to just turn up, purchase a Day Rover (or return ticket if not offered) and travel. Prebooking is a turnoff.

Contrast NYMR with the WSR (have yet to travel on latter) where most/all days, one can 'front', pay for a ticket at the booking office and hop on the next train.

I do agree with what you’re saying. I don’t like pre-booking at all, and like you consider it a massive turn-off. But, in defence of the NYMR they do operate one of the busiest and most complex heritage railways and some form of capacity management is probably desirable even in normal times, because on a sunny day if everyone tries catching the same train to Whitby, it could quickly become chaos.

(I visited last year, with pre-booking and it didn’t diminish my enjoyment at all and I still managed to ride on 3 different traction types).

 

[paul1609]

Add in for the NYMR they are having to arrange rail replacement buses between Grosmont and Whitby on strike days that they only get 14 days notice of.

 

[Falcon1200]

They really do need to update their web site - as I had even missed the fact one did have to book in advance

So, I have had a reply from Didcot Railway Centre and there is indeed no need to book in advance, although that option is still available. However, when I replied back to say thanks, I got the same auto reply saying..... You have to book in advance !

 

[matt78]

Gwili Railway, all pre-booking by the looks of things, £65 for one trip in a compartment. Despite being in the area, we won’t be bothering.

Just to confirm, there is no requirement to pre book for the Gwili Railway, and the £65 you refer to is for a compartment for up to 6 people. There are open tickets for sale at £15 on the website.

Gwili Railway | Vintage Steam Train Rides at Carmarthen, Wales

Take a trip back in time aboard heritage steam trains & coaches over stunning valleys & rivers at Carmarthen, Wales with Gwili Railway. Book a ride today!

gwili-railway.co.uk

Regards

Matt

 

[bramling]

Just to confirm, there is no requirement to pre book for the Gwili Railway, and the £65 you refer to is for a compartment for up to 6 people. There are open tickets for sale at £15 on the website.

Gwili Railway | Vintage Steam Train Rides at Carmarthen, Wales

Take a trip back in time aboard heritage steam trains & coaches over stunning valleys & rivers at Carmarthen, Wales with Gwili Railway. Book a ride today!

gwili-railway.co.uk

Regards

Matt

… which compares rather disfavourably to when we visited in 2019, when it was possible to buy an all-day ticket (on the day), which included the ability to use a compartment as desired. So some pretty hefty price inflation here.

 

[Falcon1200]

Visited Didcot Railway Centre today and no problem at all paying on the day.

 

[John Luxton]

Visited Didcot Railway Centre today and no problem at all paying on the day.

Good to hear that. I am staying in South Wales next week and have been planning at popping over by GWR next Wednesday on a day trip.

 

[Phil56]

Possibly a lesser list now is which lines continue to require advance booking. Are there any left?

There are also those which, even from pre-Covid days, are difficult if you have not booked in advance. The Snowdon Mountain has long been like this, I've never managed to get there on the day and found any availability.

We've travelled on the NYMR this week. They're still peddling the "buy in advance" on their website, but only offer VERY limited options to book trains. We wanted to travel from Whitby (staying in Whitby) and didn't want over 3 hours in Pickering (only available service on website), so phoned them to ask if I could return on an earlier train but told no as ALL seats HAD to be booked and they couldn't book me on a different train back North. We very nearly didn't bother booking, but we resigned ourselves to a 3 hour wait. In the event, there was empty seats on the earlier Northbound train (12.00) so we got on that instead - Guard didn't bother checking time on the ticket/confirmation. Lots of other passengers were on the same "booking only, full line length" train, with short hop tickets and shorter distance return tickets, so I don't think they're that bothered in reality, which is VERY different to what the website and booking office clerk were saying!

They very nearly lost over £160 in revenue by being awkward with a very limited/barely functional online system. I understand why they want advanced bookings, but it's annoying when they don't offer a full compliment of options on their websites, and even more annoying when despite saying advance booking is essential, "walk ups" are also freely allowed.

 

[Russel]

Signed up to respond to this thread, I've been watching it with interest for a while, I'd like to highlight the Llanberis Lake Railway for still operating in Covid mode, currently, they are only offering compartment fares at £26 and you have to stick to your allocated train.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

What suits one line doesn't always suit every line.

Some postings on here seem to be convinced that ALL heritage railways are purely for families wanting an out and back ride, theme park style. This also assumes that the Railway itself is the destination for that day's activities and enjoyment.

This is not the case.

The KWVR, for example, has always been a very fluid railway with lots of visitors using intermediate stations and lots of short hop single tickets for walkers, local residents etc. It also makes a considerable income from the popular on train bar. For the KWVR the main attraction for most visitors is not the railway itself but the village of Haworth, the local area, and the railway all combined. A considerable proportion of people use the Railway as part of a visit to Haworth, or the local area, and a simple pre-booked out and back journey does not sit well with that. Book from anywhere other than Haworth and you then have to drive there to do Haworthy things. Want to take a short or long walk in Bronte Country and catch the train back, nope not possible. Want to break your journey and go to the museums at Ingrow station? Nope.

The KWVR soon ditched Covid style book ahead tickets (despite the protestations of a now departed manager) when it became apparent that that particular model did not work well with nearly all visitors. It got to the point where platform tickets at Haworth to see the train go through were nearly as popular as tickets for the train itself.

Such a business model also didn't allow for the use of the on train bar or suchlike.

The fact that since going back to normal it has been very busy, and continues to be so this year (even before the imminent release of the new Railway Children film), shows that a one model fits all approach doesn't work, not all heritage railways are the same, and also that in reality the vast majority of visitors are also happy with the flexibility afforded by the turn up and go approach. It also shows that it is important to recognise and cater for all visitor types, or at least as many as possible. The KWVR has a very diverse visitor base and manages to do very well from all of them. It would have been suicide to concentrate on only one market, seemingly at the expense of all others, which is what at least one now departed senior person wanted. Thankfully sense and reality saw the light of day.

 

[Runningaround]

What suits one line doesn't always suit every line.

Some postings on here seem to be convinced that ALL heritage railways are purely for families wanting an out and back ride, theme park style. This also assumes that the Railway itself is the destination for that day's activities and enjoyment.

This is not the case.

The KWVR, for example, has always been a very fluid railway with lots of visitors using intermediate stations and lots of short hop single tickets for walkers, local residents etc. It also makes a considerable income from the popular on train bar. For the KWVR the main attraction for most visitors is not the railway itself but the village of Haworth, the local area, and the railway all combined. A considerable proportion of people use the Railway as part of a visit to Haworth, or the local area, and a simple pre-booked out and back journey does not sit well with that. Book from anywhere other than Haworth and you then have to drive there to do Haworthy things. Want to take a short or long walk in Bronte Country and catch the train back, nope not possible. Want to break your journey and go to the museums at Ingrow station? Nope.

The KWVR soon ditched Covid style book ahead tickets (despite the protestations of a now departed manager) when it became apparent that that particular model did not work well with nearly all visitors. It got to the point where platform tickets at Haworth to see the train go through were nearly as popular as tickets for the train itself.

Such a business model also didn't allow for the use of the on train bar or suchlike.

The fact that since going back to normal it has been very busy, and continues to be so this year (even before the imminent release of the new Railway Children film), shows that a one model fits all approach doesn't work, not all heritage railways are the same, and also that in reality the vast majority of visitors are also happy with the flexibility afforded by the turn up and go approach. It also shows that it is important to recognise and cater for all visitor types, or at least as many as possible. The KWVR has a very diverse visitor base and manages to do very well from all of them. It would have been suicide to concentrate on only one market, seemingly at the expense of all others, which is what at least one now departed senior person wanted. Thankfully sense and reality saw the light of day.

One of the fortunate circumstances for most heritage lines is they are situated on closed rural branch lines that inevitably are in low populated rural locations that are abundant in natural attractions to. Almost all families will tie in a paid attraction with a majority of the free days out any Heritage Railway that isolates itself from the main stream ''normal'' will struggle if it concentrates on the enthusiast who generally is going to be buying tickets for himself rather than a more lucrative family group who will buy a toy and ice creams.

 

[Runningaround]

What suits one line doesn't always suit every line.

Some postings on here seem to be convinced that ALL heritage railways are purely for families wanting an out and back ride, theme park style. This also assumes that the Railway itself is the destination for that day's activities and enjoyment.

This is not the case.

The KWVR, for example, has always been a very fluid railway with lots of visitors using intermediate stations and lots of short hop single tickets for walkers, local residents etc. It also makes a considerable income from the popular on train bar. For the KWVR the main attraction for most visitors is not the railway itself but the village of Haworth, the local area, and the railway all combined. A considerable proportion of people use the Railway as part of a visit to Haworth, or the local area, and a simple pre-booked out and back journey does not sit well with that. Book from anywhere other than Haworth and you then have to drive there to do Haworthy things. Want to take a short or long walk in Bronte Country and catch the train back, nope not possible. Want to break your journey and go to the museums at Ingrow station? Nope.

The KWVR soon ditched Covid style book ahead tickets (despite the protestations of a now departed manager) when it became apparent that that particular model did not work well with nearly all visitors. It got to the point where platform tickets at Haworth to see the train go through were nearly as popular as tickets for the train itself.

Such a business model also didn't allow for the use of the on train bar or suchlike.

The fact that since going back to normal it has been very busy, and continues to be so this year (even before the imminent release of the new Railway Children film), shows that a one model fits all approach doesn't work, not all heritage railways are the same, and also that in reality the vast majority of visitors are also happy with the flexibility afforded by the turn up and go approach. It also shows that it is important to recognise and cater for all visitor types, or at least as many as possible. The KWVR has a very diverse visitor base and manages to do very well from all of them. It would have been suicide to concentrate on only one market, seemingly at the expense of all others, which is what at least one now departed senior person wanted. Thankfully sense and reality saw the light of day.

In addition to my post above as I cannot edit

Covid isn't the reason for booking for many lines, it just encouraged lines to look at things differently and allowed them to plan around it's own staff resources as well. A family booking it's own compartment in advance is far more financially lucrative than a single person travelling alone in one turning up on the day. And for the family knowing you have guaranteed seats together and aren't going to be stuck on a platform hoping to get on. The operators can also staff the days better by knowing how many will be travelling each day.
It's one of the reasons Football clubs offer discounts on pre-booked tickets bought before Saturday. By knowing the numbers attending they can steward and order catering accordingly.

 

[Falcon1200]

I visited the NRM at York on Thursday, and although their website still says this;

TO VISIT, PLEASE BOOK FREE ADMISSION TICKETS OR REQUEST AN EDUCATION VISIT.

I had not booked yet had no problem getting straight in. Curiously their sister (and IMHO better) establishment, Locomotion at Shildon, has moved with the times and says this;

YOU NO LONGER NEED TO PRE-BOOK YOUR MUSEUM ADMISSION, EXCEPT FOR SELECTED EVENTS.

 

[Runningaround]

I visited the NRM at York on Thursday, and although their website still says this;

TO VISIT, PLEASE BOOK FREE ADMISSION TICKETS OR REQUEST AN EDUCATION VISIT.

I had not booked yet had no problem getting straight in. Curiously their sister (and IMHO better) establishment, Locomotion at Shildon, has moved with the times and says this;

YOU NO LONGER NEED TO PRE-BOOK YOUR MUSEUM ADMISSION, EXCEPT FOR SELECTED EVENTS.

So you book a slot instead of queuing for ages. Seems like a good idea.

 

[DarloRich]

I am wondering how Fareharbor appeared to become the default booking method for most lines during Covid?

I suspect it is relatively cheap to license, easy to operate, fully maintained, hands over the cash quickly, has a low commission and doesn't place a burden on the railway staff ( who in many cases might not be the most tech savvy/youngest people in the world) to maintain functionality.

I've previously been on NYMR "pre COVID" but disappointingly note it requires prebooking for some trains such as 'Service A and Service B' to 'manage capacity'.

and they absolutely do need to manage capacity. Outside of a gala the NYMR is the only heritage line I have ever stood on! The Whitby trains can be mentally busy.

So you book a slot instead of queuing for ages. Seems like a good idea.

Not on this board! Any change is to be resisted.

 

[Dai Corner]

and they absolutely do need to manage capacity. Outside of a gala the NYMR is the only heritage line I have ever stood on! The Whitby trains can be mentally busy.

So you book a slot instead of queuing for ages. Seems like a good idea.

Not on this board! Any change is to be resisted.

How would you manage capacity @DarloRich ?