When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

[AlterEgo]

We can't all be Ian Hislops; give us a break! I don't understand what is so offensive about using non-rude words to lightly poke fun of the prime minister and those who appear to adulate him.

It isn't offensive. I never said it was. Where did you get that idea from?

 

[nw1]

It isn't offensive. I never said it was. Where did you get that idea from?

It just seemed to provoke a reaction that, in my view, was excessively critical. Maybe "offensive" was too strong a word admittedly.

 

[Typhoon]

I was somewhat less impressed by the way he treated his second wife, particularly when you consider that, as I understand, she was being treated for cancer towards the end of the marriage.

I'm not convinced the way he treated his first wife was that much better.

As far as names are concerned, I grew up with PMs who were Mr Wilson, Mr Heath, Mr Callaghan, etc. With Mrs/Margaret Thatcher and Mr/John Major it started to slip, then it was Tony Blair, Gordon Brown (who didn’t appear comfortable with the informality), David Cameron and Theresa May (with an ‘h’). Finally, we have got (down?) to Boris: he must be a friend as we are all on first name terms. If we are going to respect our leaders they should be at a distance: remember the teacher who tried to be pals with his class.

I remember how Cameron was satirised when he tried to be one of the lads and came out with 'Call me Dave'. He was the potential Prime Minister, not the bloke that gave you a lift when your car had broken down.

I was somewhat less impressed by the way he treated his second wife, particularly when you consider that, as I understand, she was being treated for cancer towards the end of the marriage.

I'm not convinced the way he treated his first wife was that much better.

As far as names are concerned, I grew up with PMs who were Mr Wilson, Mr Heath, Mr Callaghan, etc. With Mrs/Margaret Thatcher and Mr/John Major it started to slip, then it was Tony Blair, Gordon Brown (who didn’t appear comfortable with the informality), David Cameron and Theresa May (with an ‘h’). Finally, we have got (down?) to Boris: he must be a friend as we are all on first name terms. If we are going to respect our leaders they should be at a distance: remember the teacher who tried to be pals with his class.

I remember how Cameron was satirised when he tried to be one of the lads and came out with 'Call me Dave'. He was the potential Prime Minister, not the bloke that gave you a lift because your car had broken down.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We can't all be Ian Hislops; give us a break! I don't understand what is so provocative about using non-rude words to lightly poke fun of the prime minister and those who appear to adulate him. If you don't like us using "De Pfeffel" or "Alex" to describe him, just ignore it. Like I would if someone was to call Starmer "Rodney" (see below).

By resemblance I mean character, not looks. I meant: if someone thinks Starmer has a Rodney-like character and a bit of an idiot, it's quite OK to satirise him in that way.

Rodney is the middle name of Sir Keir Starmer.

The man is a cad, a bounder and a rotter all in one body!

Now why do I think that Bob Cherry might well have used exactly the same terms above at Greyfriars School to describe Billy Bunter.....

 

[alex397]

So you would have no problems in referring to Sir Kier Starmer as "Rodney" then?

Call him what you wish.

Refusing to call Boris Johnson Boris Johnson is so petty and daft. That's his preferred name, and if you use something other than someone's preferred name it makes you look silly.

Does it really matter?

 

[AlterEgo]

Does it really matter?

Well no, you can look silly all you like, that's entirely up to you. It's a free country, although people who talk this way (same with 'Bliar" as well btw) just cause my eyes to roll and devalue anything else they say in the same post. I don't like the Prime Minister either.

 

[alex397]

Well no, you can look silly all you like, that's entirely up to you. It's a free country, although people who talk this way (same with 'Bliar" as well btw) just cause my eyes to roll and devalue anything else they say in the same post. I don't like the Prime Minister either.

Oh well, I won’t lose any sleep over it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rodney is the middle name of Sir Keir Starmer.

Did anyone miss the posting above?

 

[Busaholic]

Howsoever, I just cannot visualise Jeremy Corbyn in a situation similar that that.

How about Keir Hardie then, if you choose to be completely irrelevant? As a pedant for spelling, please be aware that Starmer spells his first name in the same way.

 

[brad465]

Another one bites the dust:

Chris Pincher: Tory whip resigns saying he 'embarrassed himself'

Chris Pincher steps down saying he "drank far too much", amid allegations that he groped two men.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Tory deputy chief whip has resigned from government, saying he "embarrassed myself and other people" and "drank far too much".
In his resignation letter on Thursday Chris Pincher apologised to the prime minister "and to those concerned".
He said: "I owe it to you and the people I've caused upset to, to do this."
Mr Pincher has been Tamworth's MP since 2010 and served as a minister under former Prime Minister Theresa May.
He said in his letter that the prime minister would continue to have his "full support from the back benches", adding: "It has been the honour of my life to have served in Her Majesty's Government."
A senior Downing Street source described Chris Pincher as a loyal Conservative who recognised that he behaved badly.
The source said as things stand, he would face no further action and keep the party whip.

(This story would also fit somewhat in the "and in other news thread)

 

[najaB]

Another one bites the dust:

Given that the 'embarrassing incident' apparently involved unwanted groping, there's every chance that he might find himself having to resign as MP as well!

 

[Gloster]

Given that the 'embarrassing incident' apparently involved unwanted groping, there's every chance that he might find himself having to resign as MP as well!

He might avoid having to resign as he has owned up quickly, resigned and doesn’t seem to have come up with all sorts of tortuous explanations for his behaviour. It is still a blot on his record.

 

[brad465]

He might avoid having to resign as he has owned up quickly, resigned and doesn’t seem to have come up with all sorts of tortuous explanations for his behaviour. It is still a blot on his record.

And the best challenger in the next general election would have a field day campaigning against him if he tries to continue, so I wouldn't be surprised if he stands down at the next election, whether in 2024 or later this year because Johnson calls one to get his MPs in line.

 

[najaB]

He might avoid having to resign as he has owned up quickly, resigned and doesn’t seem to have come up with all sorts of tortuous explanations for his behaviour. It is still a blot on his record.

Indeed. It very much depends on if any charges are pressed.

 

[Howardh]

As Brenda would say, "Not another one.."

Getting overly drunk and groping, should be in front of a jury that.

 

[najaB]

Getting overly drunk and groping, should be in front of a jury that.

That depends on the men who were groped. If they want to press charges then so it should be, or they may be happy to accept that it was a drunken mistake.

 

[Howardh]

That depends on the men who were groped. If they want to press charges then so it should be, or they may be happy to accept that it was a drunken mistake.

If they are Tory MPs or faithful, which they are almost bound to be, then they won't want another by-election humiliation.

 

[Typhoon]

That depends on the men who were groped. If they want to press charges then so it should be, or they may be happy to accept that it was a drunken mistake.

The Carlton Club won't want any (more) publicity. The men concerned will probably be advised that it is in no-one's interests to take it further (they might need to be named, for instance; others there might be reluctant witnesses); Pincher will, hopefully, be advised that he is persona non grata at the club.

Not a party note but it seems to me that the number of such reports has increased in the last ten, twenty years. Almost all, if not all, have involved male MPs, even though the number of female MPs has increased considerably.

 

[birchesgreen]

Not a party note but it seems to me that the number of such reports has increased in the last ten, twenty years. Almost all, if not all, have involved male MPs, even though the number of female MPs has increased considerably.

Is that because it happens more often or because its not ignored / swept under the carpet anymore? I suspect a bit of both.

 

[nw1]

Rodney is the middle name of Sir Keir Starmer.

Ah right, thanks for clearing that up. In which case it would barely be insulting at all if used in jest!

 

[SteveM70]

He might avoid having to resign as he has owned up quickly, resigned and doesn’t seem to have come up with all sorts of tortuous explanations for his behaviour. It is still a blot on his record.

It’s the second time he’s had to resign a government post for getting handsy with people. Anyone with even an ounce of moral fibre would have resigned by now

 

[nw1]

Well no, you can look silly all you like, that's entirely up to you. It's a free country, although people who talk this way (same with 'Bliar" as well btw) just cause my eyes to roll and devalue anything else they say in the same post. I don't like the Prime Minister either.

I would make the same comment on "Bliar" as well, as light-hearted criticism of Tony Blair by those who do not like him and think he told lies (which does not include myself - he had both good and bad points, so my overall opinion of him is fairly neutral).

Though, actually, "Bliar" is rather more insulting than "Alex" or "De Pfeffel", as it carries insinuations on character, which the latter do not.

IMO it doesn't make someone look silly to lightly poke fun at any politician, of any party. Given it's specifically a Johnson thread, it's inevitable that Johnson is going to come in for some stick.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Is that because it happens more often or because its not ignored / swept under the carpet anymore? I suspect a bit of both.

It's impossible to tell, but thinking about how society has changed over the last 30-50 years, I would guess it may even happen less now than it once used to, but these days it's invariably taken seriously where 30 years ago it would usually be brushed under the carpet or - in minor cases - even be considered as part of normal banter. (I'm talking about normal society, not just MPs, although if you want to consider MPs, you need look no further than at what Cyril Smith was able to get away with in the 1970s)

 

[nw1]

He might avoid having to resign as he has owned up quickly, resigned and doesn’t seem to have come up with all sorts of tortuous explanations for his behaviour. It is still a blot on his record.

If he did indeed grope someone, as alleged, he really should resign as an MP, apology or not.

If not, it appears to show it's OK to do what you like as long as you are faithful to the prime minister.

As for the by-election, in somewhere like Tamworth it's not clear who the opposition is (unlike Tiverton or Wakefield) so still a chance they could win that one due to a split opposition. Add to that the way that the Midlands, outside the large cities, appears to have drifted markedly rightwards (more so than the rest of the country) in recent years. Look at how nearby Nuneaton was a Labour gain in 1992, five years before they won power, yet now has a 13,000 Tory majority, considerably more than somewhere like Esher.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Though, actually, "Bliar" is rather more insulting than "Alex" or "De Pfeffel", as it carries insinuations on character, which the latter do not.

Indeed, and not merely insinuations, but it seems to be that 'Bliar', morally speaking, is actually defamatory (unless the person using it has very good evidence that Tony Blair actually was a liar. Without wanting to derail the thread too much, it always seemed to me that the evidence was lacking).

If he did indeed grope someone, as alleged, he really should resign as an MP, apology or not.

I wouldn't go that far, given that we don't know anything about the circumstances. From what little we know, it may have been a case, of, a having some (half-drunken) fun and banter with someone that went wrong and he thought the other person wouldn't mind being touched, but the other person actually did mind, and he immediately apologised once he realised. If it was something like that, then demanding that a person resign from their job would seem to me like a total over-reaction. On the other hand, it equally could be something more serious that stretched over a longer period of time and continued after the other person protested - in which case there would be a case for legal action. But, as far as I can see, based on the information currently publicly available, we just don't know what actually happened, or which of those scenarios it was closest to.

 

[nw1]

I wouldn't go that far, given that we don't know anything about the circumstances. From what little we know, it may have been a case, of, a having some (half-drunken) fun and banter with someone that went wrong and he thought the other person wouldn't mind being touched, but the other person actually did mind, and he immediately apologised once he realised. If it was something like that, then demanding that a person resign from their job would seem to me like a total over-reaction.

OK, that is a fair point.

 

[Cdd89]

By resemblance I mean character, not looks. I meant: if someone thinks Starmer has a Rodney-like character and a bit of an idiot, it's quite OK to satirise him in that way.

I suppose a more apt comparison are those people (mostly on Twitter) who call him “Keith”. How this became a thing is a mystery to me, and it makes such people come across as witless idiots. And outside politics, there are plenty of people who write “Micro$oft” etc.

I think there’s a difference between explicit satire, where making fun is the goal; and injecting such ‘hilarious’ jokes into everyday conversations.

 

[DarloRich]

Naughty Tory: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62002088

BBC: Tory deputy chief whip Chris Pincher has resigned from the government, as a newspaper alleged he groped two men at a private members' club.

There seem to be a lot of rotten apples in the barrel - will this lead to a resignation? It doesn't seem likely in my view. I am sure this will be swept under the carpet as it is an internal Tory party issue ( club/members/mp)

 

[ainsworth74]

He might avoid having to resign as he has owned up quickly, resigned and doesn’t seem to have come up with all sorts of tortuous explanations for his behaviour. It is still a blot on his record.

It isn't the first time this has happened with this particular MP however...

Conservative Whip refers himself to police over behaviour claims​

Conservative MP Chris Pincher has referred himself to the police after he was accused of making an unwanted pass at former Olympic rower and Conservative activist Alex Story while dressed in a bathrobe.

Chris Pincher also "voluntarily stood down from the Whips" office and referred himself to the party's complaints procedure, Downing Street said. He has denied the allegation after the athlete claimed he had come across as a "pound shop Harvey Weinstein".

Conservative Whip refers himself to police over behaviour claims

Follows report that he made a pass at Olympic athlete

www.independent.co.uk

 

[nw1]

I suppose a more apt comparison are those people (mostly on Twitter) who call him “Keith”. How this became a thing is a mystery to me, and it makes such people come across as witless idiots. And outside politics, there are plenty of people who write “Micro$oft” etc.

Though as said above the "Rodney" suggestion related to his middle name, it was my mistake jumping to a conclusion about the most famous "Rodney" of popular culture.

But "Keith", well, fine, let people call him that. Scarcely an offensive insult. Let's not employ an attitude that only children and professional comedians are allowed to have fun.

Again I don't have a problem with Micro$oft and the like either, or the similar writing Eurostar with a Euro symbol (and I have a general positive opinion of Eurostar). People need to live and let live about this sort of thing.