Avanti West Coast cancellations

[Palmyra.]

Looks like today won’t be any better than yesterday

 

[D1537]

Looks like today won’t be any better than yesterday

Not sure what the problem is there, all the Glasgow southbounds appear to be running (though the first two were 20 late, and none have got past Preston yet!)

 

[Furrball]

Not sure what the problem is there, all the Glasgow southbounds appear to be running (though the first two were 20 late, and none have got past Preston yet!)

Yeah, that queue looks pretty normal. Delayed departure plus passengers from cancelled TPE can get a queue to the door pretty easily

 

[td97]

Not sure what the problem is there, all the Glasgow southbounds appear to be running

Every single TPE service from Glasgow Central is cancelled today

 

[ScottGallagher]

I'm travelling to Cumbria on the 4th from London, judging by realtime trains data this last week on the trains I'm booked on, I'm in for a treat

 

[Statto]

Barring major incidents such as the Lamington Viaduct closure in 2016, yesterday must have been the worst day ever for Glasgow/London train performance. Of the 14 trains booked to run, precisely one, 1M18 the 1740, departed Glasgow on time; The rest were either late or cancelled, and as 1M18 only ran as far as Preston, not one single train ran as booked and on time from Central to Euston.

One of the Glasgow trains (1S95) was late at Crewe, as Preston via West Midlands (1P95) was terminated short at Crewe, 1S95 should have gone through on the down fast, but was diverted to call at Crewe to pick up passengers from 9P95, 1S95 ended up 18 late because of it, even though it arrived at Crewe on time, i know this happened as i observed it on the Railcam site.

 

[D1537]

Every single TPE service from Glasgow Central is cancelled today

Aye, but this is a thread called "Avanti West Coast cancellations".

 

[Glenn1969]

I'm booked on Avanti trains for 5 consecutive days either the 1113 or 1313 from Milton Keynes to New Street (Mon, Tues and Wed), International (Thursday) and Coventry (Friday) for access to the Commonwealth Games. What chance do I have of all these trains running

I'm supposed to be on LNWR on Saturday 30th. They are on strike but journey planners still have not been updated and the tickets that are in the post still haven't arrived in any case 12 days after they were booked. My Avanti alternatives are 0713 or the 0724 Additional put on for the games. But I can't rebook due to the lack of communication by LNWR about what is actually going on. Help !

 

[Falcon1200]

So is anyone here who has been affected by Avanti cancellations (or even not ) going to write to their MP, Avanti CEO, the DFT, A and Minister for Transport (whatever title covers this nowadays) and complain / ask them what they are going to do about it?

I have this morning contacted my local MP regarding Avanti.

 

[Watershed]

Every single TPE service from Glasgow Central is cancelled today

This is part of the "temporary timetable" in operation on Sundays on TPE. These cancellations would (for what little it's worth) have been visible from Thursday.

 

[D1537]

This is part of the "temporary timetable" in operation on Sundays on TPE. These cancellations would (for what little it's worth) have been visible from Thursday.

Though try finding that out using TPEs website!

Timetable page: https://timetables.tpexpress.co.uk/#/timetables/1131/Anglo-Scottish - nope
Today's alterations: https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/-/media/altered-timetables/tpecancelledservices240722.pdf - nope
JourneyCheck - https://www.journeycheck.com/tpexpress/ - nope

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I'm booked on Avanti trains for 5 consecutive days either the 1113 or 1313 from Milton Keynes to New Street (Mon, Tues and Wed), International (Thursday) and Coventry (Friday) for access to the Commonwealth Games. What chance do I have of all these trains running

I'm supposed to be on LNWR on Saturday 30th. They are on strike but journey planners still have not been upda and the tickets that are in the post still haven't arrived in any case 12 days after they were booked. My Avanti alternatives are 0713 or the 0724 Additional put on for the games. But I can't rebook due to the lack of communication by LNWR about what is actually going on. Help !

As someone that uses Avanti regularly on weekdays, I find that weekdays are fine to be honest. I've had one cancellation on a weekday in the last 2 years for shortage of train crew.

You'll be fine on weekdays I'd say.

 

[nlogax]

You'll be fine on weekdays I'd say.

Agree. I've typically had very few major issues on weekdays and in recent months I've tended to avoid weekends travelling on Avanti if at all possible.

 

[Bertie the bus]

This is part of the "temporary timetable" in operation on Sundays on TPE. These cancellations would (for what little it's worth) have been visible from Thursday.

It is difficult to describe something with no services as a timetable. It's a blank sheet of paper.

 

[Watershed]

It is difficult to describe something with no services as a timetable. It's a blank sheet of paper.

The West Coast route as a whole still has some services (Edinburgh-Carlisle and Lancaster-Manchester Airport). But yes, it's an extremely limited offering.

 

[185]

But with the DfT in charge of the purse-strings there is a limit to what they can do within their current funding.

i) FirstGroup
ii) Shareholder dividends

That said, the DfT hired them, the DfT still keep them ruining running the contract.

 

[Watershed]

i) FirstGroup
ii) Shareholder dividends

No owning group is going to fund extra traincrew costs out of the goodness of their own hearts. The railway isn't a charity.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I’d have thought it’d be sensible for someone (DfT or Commonwealth Games organisers) to enquire about getting WMT to run a couple of late night trains from Birmingham to Euston.

12 car 350s calling International, Coventry, Rugby, Milton Keynes. Be more reliable than Avanti.

The issue there would be getting Ops Team to sign off 12 car working at those stations (MKC has it already). Then having stop boards installed, and then staff briefed

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't help thinking it's a pity that LNWR are no longer running an hourly London Euston - Birmingham - Liverpool service. At the moment, no-one can say that it couldn't run reliably, considering the utter shambles Avanti are providing at the moment.

It was an utter disaster and was slower than the change at Crewe. No thanks.

 

[Agent_Squash]

The issue there would be getting Ops Team to sign off 12 car working at those stations (MKC has it already). Then having stop boards installed, and then staff briefed

Can’t a special operational instruction go out to just say use the Pendo 11 boards? The railway needs some out the box thinking at times…

 

[Bletchleyite]

One of the problems I have with Premium Economy is that the only tickets valid in this section are Advance ones.

There is no "Premium Economy Return" (either Anytime or Off Peak) that would give you the flexibility of a choice of trains.

You can upgrade on board.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2022 ==

What an arrogant & patronising comment to make !

Not at all. You pay for ONE seat. Half empty First Class is all very nice but there is no entitlement to it.

It seems almost universal that it is Seatfroggers complaining about the improved yield management SP has brought.

 

[Clarence Yard]

i) FirstGroup
ii) Shareholder dividends

That said, the DfT hired them, the DfT still keep them ruining running the contract.

It wouldn’t matter if FG doubled their corporate profit, or shareholder dividends (quite a bit of which is derived from non DfT businesses anyway). Since 2020 all DfT franchised TOCs have each been on strict cost budget limits and the DfT have the say on what happens.

Staff establishment is one area they keep a close eye on. So if you want to ease out your train crew diagrams and recruit some more staff, you have to get their approval. If you want to increase the amount of training, you have to get their approval. If you want to alter your staff conditions and recruit, in order to do away with regular Rest day or overtime working, or bring Sunday into the working week, you have to get their approval. If you want to offer any kind of pay rise, you have to get their approval.

Irrespective of whose fault it originally was, March 2020 reset the dial. If you ask the DfT for extra resources and you don’t get them, they impose restrictions (such as COVID) which restrict your ability to train, or they start reducing your ability to recruit, train or cover the job through imposed budget cuts, it’s on them.

The DfT also have the say on your timetabled service offer and, despite the Treasury breathing down their neck, getting them to agree service reductions (because you can’t now resource the timetable) isn’t easy because it is a political “hard sell”. But here is where Avanti do have a lot to answer for because if you do get agreement to reduce the service and then you fail dismally to resource that service because of your own fault, that’s down to you, not the DfT and you have to face the consequences.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Can’t a special operational instruction go out to just say use the Pendo 11 boards? The railway needs some out the box thinking at times…

Would think that is unlikely, but that's for Ops Standards at WMT to consider. The 12 car stations we use all have ground markings as well so ideally they (or cab marker posts) would possibly be required.

If an incident occurred due to not having the same working principles as currently used, it would not look good at all would it. Safety first as they say.

Also, not sure Cov/New St even work 12-car services. Northampton do, but would require training for other depots as Crewe do but not the route from Rugby to New St

 

[David Stewart]

Agree. I've typically had very few major issues on weekdays and in recent months I've tended to avoid weekends travelling on Avanti if at all possible.

Friday was dreadful, at least 4 of the first Glasgow to Euston were cancelled. We were in the 0852 Edb to Lancaster which picked up two trainloads at Carlisle and Oxenholme. We were travelling to the Isle of Man and should be able to catch the 1012 TPE but dare not on case it's cancelled. For the return journey I have a Megabus booking as contigency.

 

[Hadders]

The issue there would be getting Ops Team to sign off 12 car working at those stations (MKC has it already). Then having stop boards installed, and then staff briefed

I’d mistakenly assumed that all the stations I mentioned were cleared for 12-car 350s. If they’re not then just run 8-car trains.

Opportunity for WMT here.

 

[D1537]

I’d mistakenly assumed that all the stations I mentioned were cleared for 12-car 350s. If they’re not then just run 8-car trains.

Opportunity for WMT here.

Even so, a pair of 350/2s has more seats than a 9-coach Pendolino, and only 50ish fewer than an 11.

 

[mandub]

It wouldn’t matter if FG doubled their corporate profit, or shareholder dividends (quite a bit of which is derived from non DfT businesses anyway). Since 2020 all DfT franchised TOCs have each been on strict cost budget limits and the DfT have the say on what happens.

Staff establishment is one area they keep a close eye on. So if you want to ease out your train crew diagrams and recruit some more staff, you have to get their approval. If you want to increase the amount of training, you have to get their approval. If you want to alter your staff conditions and recruit, in order to do away with regular Rest day or overtime working, or bring Sunday into the working week, you have to get their approval. If you want to offer any kind of pay rise, you have to get their approval.

Irrespective of whose fault it originally was, March 2020 reset the dial. If you ask the DfT for extra resources and you don’t get them, they impose restrictions (such as COVID) which restrict your ability to train, or they start reducing your ability to recruit, train or cover the job through imposed budget cuts, it’s on them.

The DfT also have the say on your timetabled service offer and, despite the Treasury breathing down their neck, getting them to agree service reductions (because you can’t now resource the timetable) isn’t easy because it is a political “hard sell”. But here is where Avanti do have a lot to answer for because if you do get agreement to reduce the service and then you fail dismally to resource that service because of your own fault, that’s down to you, not the DfT and you have to face the consequences.

Thanks. Assuming this is all correct....

What is the DfT's (and ultimately the Treasury) intention for train services generally in these directly controlled TOC's?

Does anyone have any inside info on their overall strategic plan? What do they want to happen?

They obviously know some TOC's can't run their services & will end up as TPE and Avanti now are.

Surely it can't be as short sighted as just - control costs in the short/medium term and then see what happens to user demand.

 

[Skiddaw]

I've just emailed our MP to complain. And had a rant on Avant's FB page for good measure.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Thanks. Assuming this is all correct....

What is the DfT's (and ultimately the Treasury) intention for train services generally in these directly controlled TOC's?

Does anyone have any inside info on their overall strategic plan? What do they want to happen?

They obviously know some TOC's can't run their services & will end up as TPE and Avanti now are.

Surely it can't be as short sighted as just - control costs in the short/medium term and then see what happens to user demand.

The original DfT plan was to re-instate all services after COVID and there are still some there (and RDG) that want that to happen. But the punters are not coming back quick enough and there looks to be some long term effects on certain aspects of passenger demand. But with an economy that is misfiring, no-one is quite sure.

The Treasury has got fed up with the “Jam Tomorrow” attitude of the DfT and the squeeze is on. The Treasury don’t like to see any increase in TOC costs, even if it covered by additional revenue so it’s all a bit difficult at the moment.

Frankly nobody knows where this is going to end up. There are some that are trying to work it all out and some have their own pet theories but it’s all a bit uncertain and meanwhile the railway is still losing money with the Treasury not willing to release additional funds.

I’m fairly sure that there are some at the Treasury who wouldn’t mind seeing the railway shrink so, to be fair to the DfT, they are trying to hold a line but it is an increasingly less credible one because some TOCs need to up their resource levels. By looking at TOCs individually, the DfT are missing industry savings opportunities.

If this was BR, immediate action would have been taken across the board and the 16 weeks budget outturn discussions would have been interesting as immediate savings would be required from budget holders, not only to save money but to fund others where needed. Targets would have been set with robust action plans to achieve them.

Basically, we have an organisation (the DfT) trying to carry out a role that it is completely unsuited for.

 

[172101]

Looks like today won’t be any better than yesterday

The reason for this was the first train 1M05 had to be outstabled at GLC as there was no room at Polmadie (due to all the trains cancelled on Saturday) and the driver had to prepare the unit, instead of it coming in ECS and being prepared. This resulted in late loading and a late start. Then the second train 1M07 was only a 9 car set instead of the booked 11 car.