Why would I be saying that drivers earn too much?
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Railway Industrial Disputes Mk2
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So let’s compare different industries again shall we?
A train driver earns more than a firefighter.
A firefighter earns more than a shop assistant.
See where I’m going? Stop comparing apples with cats!
Perhaps you could also elaborate on your comment “railway workers need to be paid an appropriate amount”
What do you deem that figure to be?
I wrongly assumed you were a railway basher with regard to your silly comment about how all people of a certain age could retire on a decent pension and how easily this can be achieved by simply getting “a better job”!
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I was in Wigan yesterday afternoon and overheard a conversation on a nearby table between two well-dressed managerial types in the restaurant in which the following statement was made... "If employees freely withdraw their labour, what use are they to their employer?"
I'm just reading a thread on the rail pensions page of Facebook about a number of drivers who are taking the plunge and retiring early. That situation has come about because a lot of them saw sense years ago and made a free choice of contributing extra funds to there pension. That choice is also available to me should I wish to exercise that. Which goes back to the point I made earlier.......
Strike action does carry the potential of dismissal.......a fact endorsed by the Union when they send out ballot papers.
That's exactly the correction that's taking place in several industries, because otherwise they quite simply will not have any staff left. The most obvious is lorry driving.
Only after 12 weeks. But is that 12 weeks of continuous action or 12 weeks time frame?
And of course lorry driving is a job that anyone can do provided they pass the relevant driving tests.
Not sure ....I don't know of anywhere where that has been exercised.
That statement is true of nearly every job in the economy, to the point where it is meaningless. Anyone can be a cosmonaut too as long as they are able to jump through all of the hoops.
Think you are missing the point......
I think it's you that's missing the point
Don’t think they are.
That situation has come about because a lot of them saw sense years ago and made a free choice of contributing extra funds to there pension
Not everyone can afford to do that.
And?
And? What? I was simply making the point that ballot papers do come with a warning of potential dismissal. If you care to re read the post....
How many times have you applied to the rail industry for employment? Clearly it's something a lot of train spotters aspire to, and indeed on this very forum there is a section dedicated to that.I think it's you that's missing the point
Could I ask how you know what my current job is and how you're aware what industry it is in? I'd really like to know the answer given you keep bringing it up... And regardless of that, what does that have to do with anything in this thread? As I've told you already I'm not in a dispute with the company I work with. I note that you are in a dispute with yours. How's that working out for you?
You seem very bitter about your lot in the industry, to the point where you're now having a go at lorry drivers even. Perhaps you're just jealous that lorry drivers are in general better paid than train conductors, and they've secured much larger pay rises in recent years?
How do I know what your current job is ? No idea, but something to do with a customer service role in front of a PC is what I surmise from your previous posts. Why not give the rail industry a go? Despite its current difficulties, it's a very satisfying place to work. Why do you think I'm having a go at lorry drivers? They are in short supply and as a result are getting paid more ( as you pointed out).
Killingworth
Established Member
All these hypotheticals. I could, and did, make extra contributions to my pensions and we were frugal with income in our early years. That was how we were both brought up. We're now able to live comfortably in retirement, boosted by inheritances. Our children were encouraged to plan similarly and should be able to do the same.
The difficulty society faces is that we are all very different. Some will save no matter how little they earn and some will always manage to commit to spending more than they'll ever have. Where's the right level of income for what? If the job has to be done the rate goes up, another way is found to get the task done - or it's decided the job is no longer needed at all. Market forces usually decide over the longer term.
As a union representative over 30 years I recall only one very limited strike and one quite major ban on overtime and work to rule. We won! The subsequent number of tasks and jobs that were totally eliminated led to many redundancies with good packages - I got one! Many of those losses would have come anyway but by pushing up the total remuneration bill they were probably accelerated as practices were more rigorously examined. One thing we made sure of was not to inconvenience more than a very small proportion of our customers. In our case we knew fine well they could go elsewhere. Looking back my redundancy/early retirement package was a very good deal. My last 2 years were an increasing hell. That group package was arranged quietly between employer and an effective union reducing the head count massively - but it lost a swathe of experience in the process.
The lesson of the last big inflationary period is that playing leapfrog will always hurt those without good union representation more than others, but those with the most active or vociferous unions don't necessarily do best in the longer term. And what is best?
The difficulty society faces is that we are all very different. Some will save no matter how little they earn and some will always manage to commit to spending more than they'll ever have. Where's the right level of income for what? If the job has to be done the rate goes up, another way is found to get the task done - or it's decided the job is no longer needed at all. Market forces usually decide over the longer term.
As a union representative over 30 years I recall only one very limited strike and one quite major ban on overtime and work to rule. We won! The subsequent number of tasks and jobs that were totally eliminated led to many redundancies with good packages - I got one! Many of those losses would have come anyway but by pushing up the total remuneration bill they were probably accelerated as practices were more rigorously examined. One thing we made sure of was not to inconvenience more than a very small proportion of our customers. In our case we knew fine well they could go elsewhere. Looking back my redundancy/early retirement package was a very good deal. My last 2 years were an increasing hell. That group package was arranged quietly between employer and an effective union reducing the head count massively - but it lost a swathe of experience in the process.
The lesson of the last big inflationary period is that playing leapfrog will always hurt those without good union representation more than others, but those with the most active or vociferous unions don't necessarily do best in the longer term. And what is best?
I'm afraid that you're very much mistaken
Clearly you don't work in the rail industry either.I'm afraid that you're very much mistaken
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Jesus.... you're making Liz Truss seem like an economic genius with these last few posts
Is that correct? Goodness me you do seem to know an awful lot about me for an anonymous train enthusiast on a forum.Clearly you don't work in the rail industry either.
Worth noting that the RMT were strongly in favour of Brexit, despite the good advice that it wouldn't actually provide any benefits to the rights of workers. They did however support it anyway, as did a significant number of the contributors to this thread who are apparently furious with the government over the lack of a pay rise for themselves.
Perhaps both they and RMT could have tried voting for and politically supporting an opposition party who would have given public sector workers (such as, nowadays, train drivers) a fair pay rise, as I did?
I think that certain contributors are just very bitter that other people are getting decent pay rises and they're not. Maybe there's also a bit of buyer's remorse going on among those who voted Conservative (or didn't vote for an opposition party) because they wanted this specifc version of Brexit, who now realise that it means no pay rise as they've been reclassified as public sector workers, but not granted the benefit of a pay review body.
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To add to the mix the Port of Felixstowe Dock workers have voted for strike action. 81% turnout, 92% in favour of strike action.
information from BBC News website, Twitter feed.
information from BBC News website, Twitter feed.
Felixstowe: Strike threat at UK's biggest container port
The Port of Felixstowe handles almost half of the container cargo arriving in the UK.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Every industry will be on strike soon!
Can any company see 4-5% as a decent offer now?
Link below to Martin Lewis MSE
It won’t affect us drivers though, we are incredibly rich!
(Tongue in cheek)
although some on here Weill think so.
Can any company see 4-5% as a decent offer now?
Link below to Martin Lewis MSE
It won’t affect us drivers though, we are incredibly rich!
(Tongue in cheek)
although some on here Weill think so.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
It will be a relief when improvements in technology allows for driverless trains, at this rate A deeply unpleasant situation for both sides, and I do hope a resolution is found promptly that satisfies all.
A deeply unpleasant situation for both sides, and I do hope a resolution is found promptly that satisfies all.
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Signal_Box
Member
I’m non union after 22 in, left about 12 months ago as I’d had enough of the lack of support our grade gets.
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One must wonder about the future of Rail freight within the current situation.
Most FOC's aren't involved in any dispute, neither do FOC's receive any sort of government help or backing, so should things carry on indefinitely or even escalate, could FOC's start to feel the effects and FOC employees (most of whom are also in the RMT or Aslef) start to find their positions becoming increasingly insecure?
At the moment, a "driverless" train would cost more to develop and implement than one which still has a driver. A lot more.It will be a relief when improvements in technology allows for driverless trains, at this rate
They do receive mode shift revenue support, and in Wales and Scotland they receive some capital funding too. It is not very much overall, certainly not compared with the funding provided to passenger operators, but FOCs have exploited every economy they can to make this into a viable business for many years. Passenger operations generally haven't had to modernise as the government was always there to bail them out, so they just haven't. As a result even the small amount of public funding for rail freight goes a very long way.
Have to say it is a concern. But the only small light is that moving by road is not as cheap as it used to be.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
If anyone comments how certain sections of the country are suffering as a result of strike action, let us all remember which section of the country is taking the strike action.
How do you define the rail industry?Clearly you don't work in the rail industry either.
Either your definition is incredibly narrow (i.e. just including perhaps train crew, platform/maintenance staff or something like that) or you are clearly very wrong.
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