Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[AlbertBeale]

Was there any testing today. Service suspended on COS but didn't see any units running at all. Engineering blockade this weekend for COS?

Sorry - what's "COS"?

 

[tarq]

Sorry - what's "COS"?

The new tunnelled bit in the middle.

The Crossrail Central Operating Section (CCOS) makes up most of the route to be used by Elizabeth line services that is not part of the Network Rail network. It runs from Westbourne Park Junction in the West to Abbey Wood in the South East and Pudding Mill Lane Junction in the East, largely in new tunnels.

Source

 

[AlbertBeale]

The new tunnelled bit in the middle.


Source

Thanks!

 

[whale]

Yes it has a dedicated tunnel which links to Central and Jubilee however judging by plans it could be fairly lengthy

Had a look for this on the Hidden London Hangouts episode, does appear to be pretty lengthy, similar in appearance to the Moorgate passageway.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Had a look for this on the Hidden London Hangouts episode, does appear to be pretty lengthy, similar in appearance to the Moorgate passageway.

If it's anything like the Moorgate link to Crossrail at Liverpool Street, then I'd say that for many people it's not a viable connection. This is disappointing - I realise they can't all be cross-platform changes like with the Victoria Line, but if they're really lengthy and difficult then it'll reinforce the idea that Crossrail (though perhaps useful for point-to-point journeys it serves directly) can't be treated as though it were an extra tube line in the centre, in the way that it's normal to hop from line to line to make an indirect journey involving 2 or 3 lines. I presumed that the decision to link Crossrail to the tube at Bond Street in preference to other stations in the area meant that it would be designed for fairly quick and easy interchange between the new line and both of the existing ones.

If I were making a journey through the centre on the Central, I doubt I'd bother switching to Crossrail to save time on account of the faster trains since the interchange would wipe out the speed advantage. Unlike other places where there are parallel faster and slower routes, where it's normal to switch over if you're in a hurry. So when things have settled down, I doubt that Crossrail will be found to relieve any capacity pressure on in-the-centre Central Line journeys.

Incidentally, on the Northern Line platforms at Moorgate, it doesn't even hint at the fact that the Crossrail interchange that's shown is to a different station ... if you didn't know, you'd think it was an at-Moorgate connection, like that to the other underground lines or to the NR line north. It's such a trek that I can't see any journey where I'd think it worth making that change (either time-wise or hassle-wise).

 

[317 forever]

Yep 6th November with the peak of 22tph until auto-reverse is resolved somehow.

Appears to be formed of:

• 12tph Shenfield - Paddington
• 10tph Abbey Wood - Heathrow/Reading
  • 2tph to Heathrow T4
  • 2tph to Heathrow T5
  • 2tph to Reading (fast)
  • 2tph to Reading (standard pattern)
  • 2tph to Maidenhead (standard pattern)

In the off-peak Shenfield-Paddington reduced to 8tph, and the fast Reading service removed so also 8tph for Abbey Wood-West

The Abbey Wood branch loses out - the missing 2tph out of the 24tph would be Paddington terminators but auto-reverse still not reliable enough apparently.

Although I was disappointed to see the main section of CrossRail would be closed on October 29th, I am coming round to the idea of riding it later after all. It would be more interesting as part of a more spectacular network from November.

 

[JaJaWa]

(Apologies if this was mentioned)

When will it start running on Sundays and early/late?

Would it be when Bond Street opens or when through running starts? Or at an earlier/later date?

 

[Horizon22]

(Apologies if this was mentioned)

When will it start running on Sundays and early/late?

Would it be when Bond Street opens or when through running starts? Or at an earlier/later date?

Same date as when the new timetable goes live. As for Bond Street that could open any time it’s confirmed ready really as the timetables align now and also for the next phase.

 

[345 050]

If it's anything like the Moorgate link to Crossrail at Liverpool Street, then I'd say that for many people it's not a viable connection. This is disappointing - I realise they can't all be cross-platform changes like with the Victoria Line, but if they're really lengthy and difficult then it'll reinforce the idea that Crossrail (though perhaps useful for point-to-point journeys it serves directly) can't be treated as though it were an extra tube line in the centre, in the way that it's normal to hop from line to line to make an indirect journey involving 2 or 3 lines. I presumed that the decision to link Crossrail to the tube at Bond Street in preference to other stations in the area meant that it would be designed for fairly quick and easy interchange between the new line and both of the existing ones.

If I were making a journey through the centre on the Central, I doubt I'd bother switching to Crossrail to save time on account of the faster trains since the interchange would wipe out the speed advantage. Unlike other places where there are parallel faster and slower routes, where it's normal to switch over if you're in a hurry. So when things have settled down, I doubt that Crossrail will be found to relieve any capacity pressure on in-the-centre Central Line journeys.

Incidentally, on the Northern Line platforms at Moorgate, it doesn't even hint at the fact that the Crossrail interchange that's shown is to a different station ... if you didn't know, you'd think it was an at-Moorgate connection, like that to the other underground lines or to the NR line north. It's such a trek that I can't see any journey where I'd think it worth making that change (either time-wise or hassle-wise).

Surely a journey starting on the Northern line and finishing on the Elizabeth Line would be quicker, despite the long tunnel at Moorgate?

Coming from the East there will be a cross platform change at Stratford, this is not being taken away. Passengers who currently change from EL to Central at Stratford will be much less likely to do this when through running begins, therefore Central will be quieter.

Equally, although the interchange is not quite as good at Ealing Broadway, passengers who currently change from EL to Central at the moment maybe be able to continue their journey on EL when through running begins. Again this will take passengers off the central line.

Of course if they have a destination on the central line where the Elizabeth Line does not stop, then they may find it quicker to continue to use the central line. But to say that no one would switch is frankly quite silly.

I agree it is frustrating that a lot of the interchanges are quite time consuming, although as has been mentioned, this is by design.

The other thing to bear in mind is that people are still more slow in EL stations, admiring the architecture etc. Walking times will soon speed up to normal Tube station pace as people get used to the new line.

 

[Basil Jet]

"Step free access from street to train will be available at all the new stations from Paddington to Canary Wharf plus Woolwich. TfL says that at the rebuilt Abbey Wood Station some passengers may want to use a manual boarding ramp, and at custom House wheelchair users should board the fifth carriage of Elizabeth line trains to ensure level access".

LOL. What. The. Hell.

Custom House was already my least favourite station because there's no roof, in a station with no diesel trains in a particularly windswept part of London, but this is comedically bad. And Abbey Wood doesn't even have a Harrington hump at carriage 5.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Surely a journey starting on the Northern line and finishing on the Elizabeth Line would be quicker, despite the long tunnel at Moorgate?

Coming from the East there will be a cross platform change at Stratford, this is not being taken away. Passengers who currently change from EL to Central at Stratford will be much less likely to do this when through running begins, therefore Central will be quieter.

Equally, although the interchange is not quite as good at Ealing Broadway, passengers who currently change from EL to Central at the moment maybe be able to continue their journey on EL when through running begins. Again this will take passengers off the central line.

Of course if they have a destination on the central line where the Elizabeth Line does not stop, then they may find it quicker to continue to use the central line. But to say that no one would switch is frankly quite silly.

I agree it is frustrating that a lot of the interchanges are quite time consuming, although as has been mentioned, this is by design.

The other thing to bear in mind is that people are still more slow in EL stations, admiring the architecture etc. Walking times will soon speed up to normal Tube station pace as people get used to the new line.

Yes - obviously people using NR coming in from the west or east, who currently change to the Central Line in the suburbs, might sensibly stay on Crossrail instead if they're heading somewhere served by it (once there's through running). Though it might not make sense to stay on if they have to change to a different line in the centre anyway, given that the Central has more connections and they're much much easier connections too.

What I was getting at is that I see no journeys in the centre or the inner suburbs where many people would use Crossrail instead of the Central Line. (Once the novelty wears off...)

Also, re "Surely a journey starting on the Northern line and finishing on the Elizabeth Line would be quicker, despite the long tunnel at Moorgate?" If I were coming from the Northern Line in the suburbs, going to a destination reached by Crossrail, I'd certainly use the Charing X branch, not the Bank branch, and make a relatively easy change at TCR. Even if I were setting off from somewhere actually on the Bank loop, where there were alternative options I'd be likely to use them (and change at Farringdon, Liverpool Street itself, or Whitechapel) rather than digging out my hiking boots and changing from Moorgate.

 

[Taunton]

Custom House was already my least favourite station because there's no roof, in a station with no diesel trains in a particularly windswept part of London,

At Custom House a roof has been provided, but over the substation instead, which fills the west end of the platforms (and where the entrance is), rather than over where the passengers are.

I have wondered whether the contractor was given the design drawings printed back-to-front, which is why the station has ended up like this.

 

[theking]

At Custom House a roof has been provided, but over the substation instead, which fills the west end of the platforms (and where the entrance is), rather than over where the passengers are.

Stupid design so now when it's raining and packed at an excel event everyone will be trying to pile on a few sets of doors and the ones open to the elements will be empty

 

[cambsy]

Im planning to ride the Elizabeth line, this Sat(6th august) so how busy is the Elizabeth line likely to be, as it is now fully into the Summer holidays? and how have general figures held up overall since its opening? Is it steadily growing in usage or is it very much up and down with usage? From my experience, its varied a bit, as first time I used it was on Saturday 28th May, which was very busy through a lot of the day, then used it again on first Saturday strike day, and it was a lot quieter, though only used briefly on this occasion.

 

[Benjwri]

Im planning to ride the Elizabeth line, this Sat(6th august) so how busy is the Elizabeth line likely to be, as it is now fully into the Summer holidays? and how have general figures held up overall since its opening? Is it steadily growing in usage or is it very much up and down with usage? From my experience, its varied a bit, as first time I used it was on Saturday 28th May, which was very busy through a lot of the day, then used it again on first Saturday strike day, and it was a lot quieter, though only used briefly on this occasion.

When I last went on it, a few weeks ago, around mid day, so not rush hour, it was still fairly busy. In typical fashion around coaches 2 and 3, and 7 and 8 were absolutely packed, while the middle and very ends were extremely quiet.

 

[AM9]

When I last went on it, a few weeks ago, around mid day, so not rush hour, it was still fairly busy. In typical fashion around coaches 2 and 3, and 7 and 8 were absolutely packed, while the middle and very ends were extremely quiet.

Aren't 2, 3, 7 & 8 the cars with transverse seats? I wonder if that is part of the attraction.

 

[Non Multi]

Aren't 2, 3, 7 & 8 the cars with transverse seats? I wonder if that is part of the attraction.

9 Car sets, mixed seating: 2-4, 6-8.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

When I last went on it, a few weeks ago, around mid day, so not rush hour, it was still fairly busy. In typical fashion around coaches 2 and 3, and 7 and 8 were absolutely packed, while the middle and very ends were extremely quiet.

Yes, I agree with this. It seems most passengers have not yet taken on board the fact that the trains and the platforms of the Elizabeth Line are much longer than we are used to with London Underground and London Overground. If the platform is crowded near to entrance/exit, walk down the platform! There's tons of room at the far end!

 

[Benjwri]

Yes, I agree with this. It seems most passengers have not yet taken on board the fact that the trains and the platforms of the Elizabeth Line are much longer than we are used to with London Underground and London Overground. If the platform is crowded near to entrance/exit, walk down the platform! There's tons of room at the far end!

To be fair you get the same with all the underground lines too, and nearly every national rail service, it's worse with the liz line because every station has similar entrance positions.

 

[Mikey C]

Yes, I agree with this. It seems most passengers have not yet taken on board the fact that the trains and the platforms of the Elizabeth Line are much longer than we are used to with London Underground and London Overground. If the platform is crowded near to entrance/exit, walk down the platform! There's tons of room at the far end!

As journey times are so fast though, and if the exit from the destination station is at the same end as they got on at, they might prefer to stand, rather than walk down the platform and then back again.

 

[Acton1991]

As journey times are so fast though, and if the exit from the destination station is at the same end as they got on at, they might prefer to stand, rather than walk down the platform and then back again.

Exactly. If I am travelling from Paddington to Acton Main Line, I'd rather stand in the second to last carriage vs walking to the front of the train so I can make a quick exit!

 

[thomalex]

Do we know if the trains have the technology to detect car loading similar to what you get on Thameslink?

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know if the trains have the technology to detect car loading similar to what you get on Thameslink?

I believe most modern EMU and DMU can detect loadings because the suspension is adjusted for it in real time. The question is really whether it can also be displayed for guiding passengers to different parts of the train.

However, don't Thameslink only display the info outside their core route, because the loaded area of an arriving train isn't that useful if the majority are still getting off?

 

[kevin_roche]

However, don't Thameslink only display the info outside their core route, because the loaded area of an arriving train isn't that useful if the majority are still getting off?

I would have thought that even in that case it would be helpful as by avoiding loaded carriages you would also be likely to avoid having to wait for so many to get off.

 

[swt_passenger]

I would have thought that even in that case it would be helpful as by avoiding loaded carriages you would also be likely to avoid having to wait for so many to get off.

Off topic, but I think when it (Thameslink) was discussed a while back the problem was basically that in the core at peak times all the carriages were showing as full at the same time.

But back on Crossrail, I think live passenger loading indications will be providing a similarly stale picture at central stations as there’ll be significant turnover (or is it called churn?)

 

[matt_world2004]

Do we know if the trains have the technology to detect car loading similar to what you get on Thameslink?

Yes .it's the part of crossrail my department worked on. There are real time capacity indicators if you scan a QR code on the train

 

[JaJaWa]

Shame it's not shown on the platforms like MTR Elizabeth line's Hong Kong cousin


Source: https://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/main/go_smart_go_beyond_ideas.html

 

[Bald Rick]

Shame it's not shown on the platforms like MTR Elizabeth line's Hong Kong cousin

View attachment 118596
Source: https://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/main/go_smart_go_beyond_ideas.html

As above, it can be done, but there’s no point when the trains are (were) all arriving with all red.

 

[Benjwri]

As above, it can be done, but there’s no point when the trains are (were) all arriving with all red.

They would be in rush hour, but it could easily be turned off at certain hours, or not show when a threshold of red is met, but for trains at other times it would be very useful.

 

[Horizon22]

Apparently Bond Street is likely to open slightly earlier than through-running, possibly in mid October.