Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[matt_world2004]

Exactly. If the company comes with something out of the ordinary that will most definitely affect agreed working practices, it is only right and fair that compromise is sought with some give and take. I think our reps do a good job for us and long may that continue.

On a separate note, I have seen draft diagrams for November, broadly set out as follows:

Maidenhead & OOC depots will drive mostly to ABW, Reading, Maidenhead and Heathrow with a small amount of east work for retention purposes.

ABW & Plumstead depots will do mostly Reading, Maidenhead and Heathrow work with a small amount of east retention.

There are many Maidenhead terminators in the mix.

Shenfield and Gidea will do mostly Paddington turnbacks with a small amount of Heathrow retention. Ilford will be just Paddington as most of the depot doesn’t sign the west. As I understand it, there is no Reading/Maidenhead work for east drivers at this time.

All this is subject to local agreement.

With the levels of drivers knowledge is there the possibility that Heathrow/ reading services would run towards Shenfield as a service recovery strategy ( For example if anywhere between Canary wharf and abbey wood was blocked for any reason)

 

[Horizon22]

Where did you find these pieces of information, sources please?

Likely internal info, much like many sources on this forum. I imagine it will drip feed to other sources later this month and into August.

With the levels of drivers knowledge is there the possibility that Heathrow/ reading services would run towards Shenfield as a service recovery strategy ( For example if anywhere between Canary wharf and abbey wood was blocked for any reason)

Unlikely in large numbers due to the additional length of time (it’s about 15 minutes Whitechapel - Abbey Wood). Obviously it would depend on the exact location, but Custom House could still be used potentially and there’s not loads of turnback locations on East that are as close.

Instead I find it more probable services would be thinned out with some running into Paddington HL.

 

[James H]

Andy Byford said at the board meeting that Bond Street is nearly ready and still 'on target' for Autumn opening.

No hints of anything more imminent.

Although he did talk about Bond Street and through running as being distinct steps - he didn't repeat the previous formulation that they would happen on the same day.

 

[thomalex]

Given the increased dwell time at the central stations is to make up for not stopping at Bond Street it should be simple to open while sticking to the same time tables.

I presume this all depends on when Crossrail hand the station over to TfL. If they do so in say the next few weeks why would you keep it closed?

 

[hwl]

Given the increased dwell time at the central stations is to make up for not stopping at Bond Street it should be simple to open while sticking to the same time tables.

I presume this all depends on when Crossrail hand the station over to TfL. If they do so in say the next few weeks why would you keep it closed?

It won't be kept closed.
Bond Street opening will see increased user levels with interchange from Jubilee and Central Line and a batch of new users needing to find their way around, which is best done at a different time to through running.

 

[BahrainLad]

Will Bond Street have a "proper" connection to the Jubilee & Central, i.e. an underground one, or will you have to go up into the ticket hall and down again like at TCR?

 

[Spurs]

Is there any talk of an out of station interchange being set up for Bond Street and Oxford Circus? With the entrances so close it would be very useful to enable a change between the Elizabeth and Jubilee/Bakerloo lines.

 

[Mikey C]

Will Bond Street have a "proper" connection to the Jubilee & Central, i.e. an underground one, or will you have to go up into the ticket hall and down again like at TCR?

TCR has a proper connection to the Northern Line, it's only the Central Line which doesn't have the decent connection, as Bond Street was always earmarked for this.

 

[BahrainLad]

TCR has a proper connection to the Northern Line, it's only the Central Line which doesn't have the decent connection, as Bond Street was always earmarked for this.

Ah yes, you're right about TCR. Apologies. But does that mean Bond Street will have one to Central/Jubilee?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Ah yes, you're right about TCR. Apologies. But does that mean Bond Street will have one to Central/Jubilee?

Yes. It is on a middle level of the western end of the EL station. Interestingly, the signs in the EL station all point to 'Underground' rather than 'Central/ Jubilee line'.

 

[Acton1991]

Super disappointed that Acton Main Line stays at 4tph but Hanwell is up to 6tph. Does anyone know the justification here? I would argue that AML is more heavily used vs Hanwell.

 

[ijmad]

[Never mind was answered earlier in the thread]

 

[Taunton]

The Core seemed to be running fine today, despite the national strike. How have they managed that?

 

[Agent_Squash]

The Core seemed to be running fine today, despite the national strike. How have they managed that?

Separate signalling staff in the core, although still based at Romford ROC. The service thins during the evening to ensure that the stock that does stable on NR infrastructure can get back before the NR closure.

 

[matt_world2004]

Super disappointed that Acton Main Line stays at 4tph but Hanwell is up to 6tph. Does anyone know the justification here? I would argue that AML is more heavily used vs Hanwell.

I wonder how long Acton mainline is for this world given Old Oak common is going to eventually open

 

[Horizon22]

The Core seemed to be running fine today, despite the national strike. How have they managed that?

TfL staff manage the signalling & infrastructure and MTR aren’t in dispute having recently received a pay rise.

 

[Basil Jet]

I wonder how long Acton mainline is for this world given Old Oak common is going to eventually open

Acton Mainline was heavily upgraded in the last year or two.

Super disappointed that Acton Main Line stays at 4tph but Hanwell is up to 6tph. Does anyone know the justification here? I would argue that AML is more heavily used vs Hanwell.

Your ID suggests you might be slightly biased... Wikipedia says that Hanwell has 50% more passengers than Acton Mainline, although that info is necessarily not bang up to date. Historically Hanwell had a better service, so I can't say that it would have more passengers if the two stations had the same frequency.

 

[Horizon22]

Acton Mainline was heavily upgraded in the last year or two.


Your ID suggests you might be slightly biased... Wikipedia says that Hanwell has 50% more passengers than Acton Mainline, although that info is necessarily not bang up to date. Historically Hanwell had a better service, so I can't say that it would have more passengers if the two stations had the same frequency.

I also don't think it does; I believe @Acton1991 is referring to a map which is probably no longer currently accurate. Should be 4tph (the Heathrow trains) to both. I doubt the Maidenhead services will stop at Hanwell.

 

[matt_world2004]

I also don't think it does; I believe @Acton1991 is referring to a map which is probably no longer currently accurate. Should be 4tph (the Heathrow trains) to both. I doubt the Maidenhead services will stop at Hanwell.

When the service is fully opened isn't Heathrow getting 6tph, 4 to terminal 4 and 2 to terminal 5 (with an additional 4tph going to terminal 5 as the Heathrow Express)

 

[thomalex]

Will Bond Street have a "proper" connection to the Jubilee & Central, i.e. an underground one, or will you have to go up into the ticket hall and down again like at TCR?

Yes it has a dedicated tunnel which links to Central and Jubilee however judging by plans it could be fairly lengthy

 

[ijmad]

When the service is fully opened isn't Heathrow getting 6tph, 4 to terminal 4 and 2 to terminal 5 (with an additional 4tph going to terminal 5 as the Heathrow Express)

That's always been the suggestion although I'm sure I recall someone saying 3tph to each (as a throwaway comment which could have been wrong) in a Geoff Marshall video a few years back

 

[Kite159]

Acton Mainline was heavily upgraded in the last year or two.


Your ID suggests you might be slightly biased... Wikipedia says that Hanwell has 50% more passengers than Acton Mainline, although that info is necessarily not bang up to date. Historically Hanwell had a better service, so I can't say that it would have more passengers if the two stations had the same frequency.

From memory before TfL Rail/Crossrail arrived, generally both Acton Main Line & Hanwell used to have 2tph each (Acton Main Line served by the Greenford services then the Hayes shuttles, and Hanwell served by the former Heathrow Connect services). Hanwell increased to 4tph when the Hayes shuttles started calling before they got extended to the airport.

It will be interesting to see if there will be any uptake in station usage now Acton Main Line has got barriers, not sure if Hanwell has got barriers installed.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

not sure if Hanwell has got barriers installed.

4 PVALs IIRC. Definitely no barriers.

 

[JonathanH]

That's always been the suggestion although I'm sure I recall someone saying 3tph to each (as a throwaway comment which could have been wrong) in a Geoff Marshall video a few years back

3tph to Terminal 5 in between a 4tph Heathrow Express service doesn't sound likely.

 

[Benjwri]

No, but I would think it likely more of the stops within Greater London cut out excepting Ealing.

The track access consultation actually answers tis question it turns out, the fast services stop at Ealing Broadway, West Drayton, Slough, Burnham, Maidenhead, Twyford, the current GWR stops, so presumably the idea is they basically replace the current GWR services that are now non stop.

 

[Horizon22]

When the service is fully opened isn't Heathrow getting 6tph, 4 to terminal 4 and 2 to terminal 5 (with an additional 4tph going to terminal 5 as the Heathrow Express)

Yes, but that isn't the next stage. And even then, I'd expect Hanwell and Acton Main Line to be served equally (unless there's an infrastructure reason).

The track access consultation actually answers tis question it turns out, the fast services stop at Ealing Broadway, West Drayton, Slough, Burnham, Maidenhead, Twyford, the current GWR stops, so presumably the idea is they basically replace the current GWR services that are now non stop.

The GWR services also stop at Hayes and Harlington off-peak, so maybe there will be an amendment as it does provide a useful interchange for Heathrow (the only one) from the West. But for the peak, yes that sounds perfectly reasonable.

 

[345 050]

Yes it has a dedicated tunnel which links to Central and Jubilee however judging by plans it could be fairly lengthy

You can see where it comes out in the LU station, and it's not exactly right next to either Central or Jubilee.

 

[Acton1991]

In other news, I had a response from TfL today regarding the door function and the fact that you cannot open the door from the outside at a station if someone is leaning on the door open button inside the train.

Seems like a nightmare waiting to happen, especially in the peak, when trains are already crush loaded.

I am sorry to read of the situation you have described, whereby the doors have been restricted from opening due to passengers inside the carriage leaning against the door / against the door open button.

MTR Elizabeth line have confirmed this is indeed the case. However, there are no current plans to alter the functionality.

With the details you've provided, this will be monitored going forward.

 

[AM9]

In other news, I had a response from TfL today regarding the door function and the fact that you cannot open the door from the outside at a station if someone is leaning on the door open button inside the train.

Seems like a nightmare waiting to happen, especially in the peak, when trains are already crush loaded.

If that part of the train is already crush loaded, then if even more passengers are trying to force their way on, the dwell will extend, thereby reducing throughput.

 

[345 050]

I assume this scenario is not playing out in the COS with the platform screen doors? Only on the open sections without platform screen doors?