Crossrail - operating discussion and opening day 24th May

[Basil Jet]

Unfortunately the Track Access Consultation for the final timetable removes the option for West Ealing stops on the Reading trains, so these won't materialise.

I briefly looked at the current working timetable and it looked as if there might be half hourly five minute gaps going through Ealing. I was wondering if the Greenford Shuttle could be extended to Willesden Junction or Clapham Junction via Acton Wells. I'm sure there would be few people wanting to do the through journey, but connecting Ealing Broadway to the Greenford Branch and also to the Overground would seem useful.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Is there a primary source available confirming the November date?

 

[Roger B]

Ealing Broadway, West Drayton, Slough, (Burnham?) Maidenhead, Twyford, Reading. In reality it's a semi-fast service.

The current plans are going to be slightly different to what was planned 5 years ago.
Sources:
Network Rail - Peak service pattern for December 2019 (diagram from 2018).
Crossrail project - Elizabeth line minimum service pattern, table published in July 2017 [PDF].

View attachment 118207

Interesting to see that trains to Liverpool Street (High Level), but not into Paddington (High Level). Is that still expected to be the case.

 

[SynthD]

I was wondering if the Greenford Shuttle could be extended

Hardly enough people take it to West Ealing. Not enough took it to Paddington to justify its path.

Interesting to see that trains to Liverpool Street (High Level), but not into Paddington (High Level). Is that still expected to be the case.

Yes, but peak only.

 

[swt_passenger]

I briefly looked at the current working timetable and it looked as if there might be half hourly five minute gaps going through Ealing. I was wondering if the Greenford Shuttle could be extended to Willesden Junction or Clapham Junction via Acton Wells. I'm sure there would be few people wanting to do the through journey, but connecting Ealing Broadway to the Greenford Branch and also to the Overground would seem useful.

Through running of The Greenford shuttle was removed permanently to make room for Crossrail, I suspect there’s no likelihood whatsoever if it being re-extended. The purpose was to remove the crossing conflicts at West Ealing, it’s for the same reason there’s no longer any through running to Henley or Bourne End.

 

[kevin_roche]

Interesting to see that trains to Liverpool Street (High Level), but not into Paddington (High Level). Is that still expected to be the case.

There are provisions in the Track Access Contract supplemental agreement (linked above in Post #1112) for 1 train to run from Reading and 1 from Maidenhead to London Paddington (High Level) on weekdays and Saturdays in Phase 5B (incl 5B minus). On Sundays there is provision for 8 trains from Reading.

After the start of phase 5C there is provision for 5 trains from Paddington (High Level) on weekdays to Heathrow and 1 to Reading. Nothing in the reverse direction except on Sundays.

I don't know if any of these will be used. I have never seen any indication that they are planned in Phase 5B or 5C. Anyone else know?

 

[Bald Rick]

If they are going to begin through running in November without auto-reverse, what is preventing the next stage from happening a lot sooner? I thought the main barrier was getting auto-reverse working.

if you mean “why can’t through running happen before 6 November” the answer is that all the rolling stock and drivers’ diagrams will need to be rewritten (a complete rewrite), and in the latter case consulted with ASLEF. That takes time.

 

[306024]

There are provisions in the Track Access Contract supplemental agreement (linked above in Post #1112) for 1 train to run from Reading and 1 from Maidenhead to London Paddington (High Level) on weekdays and Saturdays in Phase 5B (incl 5B minus). On Sundays there is provision for 8 trains from Reading.

After the start of phase 5C there is provision for 5 trains from Paddington (High Level) on weekdays to Heathrow and 1 to Reading. Nothing in the reverse direction except on Sundays.

I don't know if any of these will be used. I have never seen any indication that they are planned in Phase 5B or 5C. Anyone else know?

Trains running to / from Paddington GWR station are due to the engineering access hours for the central tunnel. So for example the five Heathrow and one Reading service in 5C are early morning starts when the tunnel is still closed. There are similar early starts and late finishes at Liverpool St (High Level).

if you mean “why can’t through running happen before 6 November” the answer is that all the rolling stock and drivers’ diagrams will need to be rewritten (a complete rewrite), and in the latter case consulted with ASLEF. That takes time.

Doing a major change to rosters in November is very unusual. Annual leave is also in the base roster, and has to remain unchanged for the whole year. Normally this is manageable when there is relatively little change, but with another major change for stage 5C it is particularly complex this time.

 

[345 050]

Trains running to / from Paddington GWR station are due to the engineering access hours for the central tunnel. So for example the five Heathrow and one Reading service in 5C are early morning starts when the tunnel is still closed. There are similar early starts and late finishes at Liverpool St (High Level).


Doing a major change to rosters in November is very unusual. Annual leave is also in the base roster, and has to remain unchanged for the whole year. Normally this is manageable when there is relatively little change, but with another major change for stage 5C it is particularly complex this time.

Is it likely this could slip to the December timetable change then?

 

[Horizon22]

Interesting to see that trains to Liverpool Street (High Level), but not into Paddington (High Level). Is that still expected to be the case.

Very first and last trains should continue to use both high level stations.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Had my first experience on the Elizabeth line today, went from Liverpool Street to Canary Wharf at about 18.15. It was busy but not crush loaded, but roughly as busy as I'd expect an average tube train to be at that time. Aircon and lack of squeal meant it was much more comfortable than a tube journey though!

 

[subk2010]

It’s always been WiFi in stations from opening, 4G and WiFi in tunnels later this year.

Any specific timelines?

 

[Dstock7080]

Any specific timelines?

Customers of all major networks set to have access to high-speed mobile coverage across London Tube network

Customers of all major networks set to have access to high-speed mobile coverage across London Tube network

tfl.gov.uk

All stations and tunnels across the Tube network remain on course to have high-quality and uninterrupted mobile coverage. Some sections of Tube network will go live by summer 2023 - including parts of the Central line including stations and tunnels through the City and West End. TfL and BAI are also continuing to progress with delivering mobile coverage across the recently opened central section of the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Abbey Wood.

Mobile operators will also ensure continued and improved coverage via Wi-Fi on the London Underground and Elizabeth line when the network transfers to BAI in April 2023.

 

[Snow1964]

If they are going to begin through running in November without auto-reverse, what is preventing the next stage from happening a lot sooner? I thought the main barrier was getting auto-reverse working.

It’s administrative, basically to do with staff rosters

There is also the Bond Street factor, as I understand it, it is certified for use as an emergency exit based on 12tph service. Clearly if increase frequency to 22tph then potentially have nearly double number of people. Therefore easier to fully open station at same time.

The stations are built on basis might be 27-30tph service, and extra 2 carriages many years in the future.

 

[306024]

Is it likely this could slip to the December timetable change then?

Your crystal ball is as good as mine, but TfL are keen to get revenue benefits as soon as possible which is why they pay little attention to national timetable change dates.

 

[rd749249]

Roster changes will be bought forward to 6th November subject to several conditions agreed between the company and ASLEF. These include (but not limited to):

- no further roster changes until May 2023
- no increase in night turns and no increase in weekend workload, also until at least May 2023
- spare turns limited to 2 hour movements only, regardless of notice period until May 2023
- STP diagrams covered by RDW first, only utilising spares if jobs can't be fulfilled by RDW

And best of all, shorts to be issued for all of those who want to show-off their lovely legs.

 

[Horizon22]

Roster changes will be bought forward to 6th November subject to several conditions agreed between the company and ASLEF. These include (but not limited to):

- no further roster changes until May 2023
- no increase in night turns and no increase in weekend workload, also until at least May 2023
- spare turns limited to 2 hour movements only, regardless of notice period until May 2023
- STP diagrams covered by RDW first, only utilising spares if jobs can't be fulfilled by RDW

And best of all, shorts to be issued for all of those who want to show-off their lovely legs.

Seems fairly limiting, however my understanding is that compared to most TOCs, TfL Rail / Elizabeth Line driver contracts already had many of the more flexible options? I.e things like Sunday working and night frequencies. So no major change as not much to be eked out.

Getting a RDW person to do something on a short-term diagram seems very inefficient though - pay someone to come in whilst a spare is sitting in the mess room?

 

[matt_world2004]

We've heard that bond Street is opening in two weeks.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

We've heard that bond Street is opening in two weeks.

From where?

 

[Watershed]

Roster changes will be bought forward to 6th November subject to several conditions agreed between the company and ASLEF. These include (but not limited to):

- no further roster changes until May 2023
- no increase in night turns and no increase in weekend workload, also until at least May 2023
- spare turns limited to 2 hour movements only, regardless of notice period until May 2023
- STP diagrams covered by RDW first, only utilising spares if jobs can't be fulfilled by RDW

And best of all, shorts to be issued for all of those who want to show-off their lovely legs.

Just goes to show that the involvement of union reps in rosters rarely has much to do with safety or work/life balance etc. - and far more to do with ensuring their members' pockets are lined...

 

[Taunton]

It was always known that the Abbey wood branch would get a higher frequency which would reduce when the Eastern end was added in not sure why its a surprise now

Possibly because this was never advised as such.

 

[Horizon22]

Just goes to show that the involvement of union reps in rosters rarely has much to do with safety or work/life balance etc. - and far more to do with ensuring their members' pockets are lined...

Eh? How does not doing extra nights, weekend or having your shifts moved considerably at short notice not comprise “work/life balance”?

 

[thomalex]

We've heard that bond Street is opening in two weeks.

This doesn't surprise me, judging from images of the recent tour it looks complete

 

[Class 170101]

Save your diaries for 6th November. Through running starts.

We've heard that bond Street is opening in two weeks.

Where did you find these pieces of information, sources please?

 

[Benjwri]

We've heard that bond Street is opening in two weeks.

Andy Byford said Bond Street would open at the same time as through running, would be odd to turn back on this and the constant Autumn opening date given to the media.

 

[James H]

Maybe something will be said at tomorrow's TfL board meeting

 

[matt_world2004]

Where did you find these pieces of information, sources please?

I was working at TCR today and that it what the gossip is there

 

[rd749249]

Eh? How does not doing extra nights, weekend or having your shifts moved considerably at short notice not comprise “work/life balance”?

Exactly. If the company comes with something out of the ordinary that will most definitely affect agreed working practices, it is only right and fair that compromise is sought with some give and take. I think our reps do a good job for us and long may that continue.

On a separate note, I have seen draft diagrams for November, broadly set out as follows:

Maidenhead & OOC depots will drive mostly to ABW, Reading, Maidenhead and Heathrow with a small amount of east work for retention purposes.

ABW & Plumstead depots will do mostly Reading, Maidenhead and Heathrow work with a small amount of east retention.

There are many Maidenhead terminators in the mix.

Shenfield and Gidea will do mostly Paddington turnbacks with a small amount of Heathrow retention. Ilford will be just Paddington as most of the depot doesn’t sign the west. As I understand it, there is no Reading/Maidenhead work for east drivers at this time.

All this is subject to local agreement.

 

[43066]

Just goes to show that the involvement of union reps in rosters rarely has much to do with safety or work/life balance etc. - and far more to do with ensuring their members' pockets are lined...

Not sure how you’re getting to that conclusion from what’s been described?

Eh? How does not doing extra nights, weekend or having your shifts moved considerably at short notice not comprise “work/life balance”?

Indeed.

 

[matt_world2004]

Exactly. If the company comes with something out of the ordinary that will most definitely affect agreed working practices, it is only right and fair that compromise is sought with some give and take. I think our reps do a good job for us and long may that continue.

On a separate note, I have seen draft diagrams for November, broadly set out as follows:

Maidenhead & OOC depots will drive mostly to ABW, Reading, Maidenhead and Heathrow with a small amount of east work for retention purposes.

ABW & Plumstead depots will do mostly Reading, Maidenhead and Heathrow work with a small amount of east retention.

There are many Maidenhead terminators in the mix.

Shenfield and Gidea will do mostly Paddington turnbacks with a small amount of Heathrow retention. Ilford will be just Paddington as most of the depot doesn’t sign the west. As I understand it, there is no Reading/Maidenhead work for east drivers at this time.

All this is subject to local agreement.

With the levels of drivers knowledge is there the possibility that Heathrow/ reading services would run towards Shenfield as a service recovery strategy ( For example if anywhere between Canary wharf and abbey wood was blocked for any reason)