ScotRail request stop buttons at stations

[Class800]

Something like the ones in automated supermarket checkouts could grab a photo of the person pressing the button. There could also be a timeout so if the button is pressed more than say 20min before train time it would be ignored and a message displayed to this effect.

But some genuine passengers like some of my family members would come 30 minutes early and ring the bell, and think they are just being in good time

 

[edwin_m]

But some genuine passengers like some of my family members would come 30 minutes early and ring the bell, and think they are just being in good time

If that happened then it could generate an audio and/or visual message such as "No train is expected in the next 20min. Please request the train nearer its departure time." 20min is a guess on my part and a longer time could be used instead.

As the request button appears to be combined with a departures screen, I imagine it could indicate on the screen when a train has been successfully requested.

 

[Class800]

If that happened then it could generate an audio and/or visual message such as "No train is expected in the next 20min. Please request the train nearer its departure time." 20min is a guess on my part and a longer time could be used instead.

As the request button appears to be combined with a departures screen, I imagine it could indicate on the screen when a train has been successfully requested.

It might work. Am I alone in thinking the bigger issue with request stops is not having a button to alert the guard from within the train to alight? As it can be hard to find the guard sometimes

 

[L401CJF]

It might work. Am I alone in thinking the bigger issue with request stops is not having a button to alert the guard from within the train to alight? As it can be hard to find the guard sometimes

As a guard currently in training with another TOC, we have been told that if for whatever reason we havnt been able to get through the train (eg if its too busy) or if we arnt 100% sure whether somebody wants to alight for whatever reason, just stop anyway. We have also been told if we want to for any reason - for example again if its very busy, we can just talk with the driver before hand and ask them to stop at all request stops anyway.

 

[Dougal2345]

How about just putting CCTV on the platforms to catch anyone playing with the buttons?

But why would you bother? The worst consequence of someone playing with the buttons is that the train will make an unnecessary stop. No one dies

 

[Class800]

As a guard currently in training with another TOC, we have been told that if for whatever reason we havnt been able to get through the train (eg if its too busy) or if we arnt 100% sure whether somebody wants to alight for whatever reason, just stop anyway. We have also been told if we want to for any reason - for example again if its very busy, we can just talk with the driver before hand and ask them to stop at all request stops anyway.

It may vary from TOC to TOC, but I have heard of some issues on the Tarka line for people wanting to get off at request stops, especially for short journeys

 

[GatwickDepress]

I was thinking that. Just how many kids do people live near these stations?!?

The feral kids of Altnabreac have been terrorising the local community for years now. I hear they push buttons on Pelican crossings with no intention of crossing too.

 

[Meerkat]

It may vary from TOC to TOC, but I have heard of some issues on the Tarka line for people wanting to get off at request stops, especially for short journeys

Are there signs on the stations explaining about request stops on the line? If I was getting on at a wayside station for a short hop to a request stop I would be aiming to get on at, or as near as, the door the guard is standing in - he has to be visible to monitor the doors.

 

[najaB]

The feral kids of Altnabreac have been terrorising the local community for years now. I hear they push buttons on Pelican crossings with no intention of crossing too.

Having first got the bus to Thurso seeing as that's the closest one.

We have also been told if we want to for any reason - for example again if its very busy, we can just talk with the driver before hand and ask them to stop at all request stops anyway.

I could be wrong, but from memory the current operation on the line is that the driver will stop unless the conductor gives two on the buzzer.

 

[_toommm_]

Having first got the bus to Thurso seeing as that's the closest one.

I could be wrong, but from memory the current operation on the line is that the driver will stop unless the conductor gives two on the buzzer.

Northern certainly does that with their request stops on the Cumbrian Coast. No buzz back from the guard, driver stops as there’s no way for them to know if the guard is busy or if someone genuinely needs the stop. Guess it’s a fail safe method really as opposed to needing two buzzes for the train to stop.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Posts 31 & 32 say that a similar system works in Switzerland and elsewhere. Perhaps the thing to do (and probably what is planned) is to trial it for a bit and see if it works in the UK. If necessary, revise the procedures in the light of experience.

From an article posted early in the thread (Post 3)

This new equipment is planned to go live across all eight ‘request-to-stop’ stations on the line from Summer 2022. Scotscalder has been selected as a trial location where a period of dual running will extensively test the reliability of the enhanced system prior to it being rolled-out.

 

[L401CJF]

Having first got the bus to Thurso seeing as that's the closest one.

I could be wrong, but from memory the current operation on the line is that the driver will stop unless the conductor gives two on the buzzer.

That is the same method we use too.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @_toommm_ to provide an update.

 

[_toommm_]

Thanks @Cowley

The first screen has been installed at Scotscalder, along with upgraded masts and antennas. https://www.networkrailmediacentre....st-stop-kiosk-goes-on-trial-on-far-north-line

The first request-stop kiosk on the Far North Line will go on trial at Scotscalder station from Monday 15 August.

The kiosk at Scotscalder, the first of eight that will be rolled out across the Highland route, will allow passengers to access the next planned service electronically and eliminate the need to hand-signal the driver to stop the train.

The installation is part of a broader £5m package of investment in the line's radio signalling system, with stations on the Far North Line benefiting from the addition of the request-stop kiosks on platforms.

Subject to the trial being successful at Scotscalder, the new system will be rolled-out over the coming months at Altnabreac, Kinbrace, Kildonan, Dunrobin Castle, Rogart, Invershin and Culrain.

Due to their geographical remoteness, patronage at these stations is amongst the lowest in the UK and consequently they operate on a ‘request to stop’ basis – currently requiring the need to hand-signal approaching trains to stop.

The new kiosks will enhance the current operation of the railway by allowing passengers to request an approaching train to stop at the station using a radio system to send a message to the driver’s cab requesting the train stop.

Passengers onboard wishing to leave the train at Scotscalder will continue to speak to the guard / conductor as at present.

Scotscalder has been selected as a trial location which will be closely monitored to ensure safety and reliability. Information will also be available on platforms initially to highlight the change to passengers and a period of dual running will be in place to extensively test the enhanced system prior to it being rolled-out at the other locations.

As well as the installation of the request-stop kiosks, Network Rail has upgraded existing radio communication masts and antennas and installed new equipment at Muir of Ord, Invergordon, Kildonan and Wick stations to enhance radio coverage.

This has improved the reliability and resilience of the communications network across the route to improve overall passenger experience for those travelling on the line.

Cara Healy, Network Rail’s development manager for the work on the Far North Line, said: “Enhancing the radio network will make the experience of using request-stop stations more straight forward for local people and for the increasing number of tourists visiting the area.

“Once the trial-period is complete at Scotscalder, we are confident that the system will be ready to be rolled out to improve performance and the overall passenger experience for those travelling on the railway.

“This new system will make it easier to use some of the most remote stations on our network and hopefully help encourage more people to travel into the Highlands to walk, climb, cycle and sightsee.”

David Simpson, ScotRail Service Delivery Director, said:

“We are delighted to welcome request-stop kiosks on to the network with the improvements they will offer to our passengers using this rural line.

“Enabling the driver to be alerted in advance to the need to stop in the station, rather than being reliant on hand-signalling, delivers a safer and more reliable system, and means that trains don’t need to slow down at stations where there are no passengers waiting.

“This will improve performance and it’s a really positive step for the operation of the route.

“We look forward to a successful trial and the technology being rolled out to other stations on the Far North Line.”

If anyone has any questions or concerns in relation to the project, they can call our 24-hr helpline on 03457 11 41 41 or visit the Far North Line page on the Scotland’s Railway web site.

Notes to Editors​

Installation of ‘request to stop kiosks’
Scotscalder, Altnabreac, Kinbrace, Kildonan, Dunrobin Castle, Rogart, Invershin, Culrain
Upgraded or additional radio communications equipment
Kildonan, Muir of Ord, Invergordon and Wick.
Request-stop kiosks consist of a platform unit with timetable display and request to stop button, signage and an adjacent radio mast.
The radio network on the line has been enhanced which has allowed the introduction of the kiosks which enable requests to be made direct to the cabs of drivers approaching the stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope they're failsafe, i.e. the thing communicated to the train is a *lack of* need to stop.

Good idea, though, the Swiss have had this sort of thing for years. On board stop buttons on any new rural stock would also be sensible.

 

[_toommm_]

I hope they're failsafe, i.e. the thing communicated to the train is a *lack of* need to stop.

Good idea, though, the Swiss have had this sort of thing for years. On board stop buttons on any new rural stock would also be sensible.

There is an interim period where both methods will be accepted e.g. arm out and/or pressing the button. I would hope with the limited line speeds the classic arm out method will continue to be accepted as there may be no way for the driver to know in realtime if the screen or button has failed.

 

[markymark2000]

Thanks @Cowley

The first screen has been installed at Scotscalder, along with upgraded masts and antennas. https://www.networkrailmediacentre....st-stop-kiosk-goes-on-trial-on-far-north-line

The idea is brilliant but if these stations have such low patronage, why have they got a really large screen? What a waste of electric and cost for such large screens. Just have a bare basic really small basic screen and throw a 'request stop' button underneath.

Like this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could theoretically do something like that wholly mechanically, with a lever that sets a signal and a treadle that resets it.

 

[Dougal2345]

It's certainly a big old machine to house one button....

I notice that the two close-up images on that network rail site both seem to show that the train is late arriving or departing - you'd think they'd have tried to come up with photos that show everything running smoothly...

 

[edwin_m]

The idea is brilliant but if these stations have such low patronage, why have they got a really large screen? What a waste of electric and cost for such large screens. Just have a bare basic really small basic screen and throw a 'request stop' button underneath.

Possibly it's also intended to be the sole departure screen. At Scotscalder it's obviously duplicating a PID that was probably there already, but maybe if this progresses beyond a trial they will remove the PIDs from those stations.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Does it clearly indicate what time the button has to be pressed by to allow enough time for the train to stop?

For example, surely a (hypothetical service) 1500 needs to have been flagged down by 1458 otherwise it will have to travel at a ridiculously slow speed to enter the station, meaning there was little benefit replacing the hand signal anyway?

 

[zwk500]

The idea is brilliant but if these stations have such low patronage, why have they got a really large screen? What a waste of electric and cost for such large screens. Just have a bare basic really small basic screen and throw a 'request stop' button underneath.

Like this.

These days screens aren't really expensive, and I suspect the energy requirement for a large screen is not all that much more than for a small screen.

I suspect accessibility requirements may come into it - minimum sizes of screen/font or similar for visually impaired customers.

 

[Railsigns]

You could theoretically do something like that wholly mechanically, with a lever that sets a signal and a treadle that resets it.

It might look something like this.

 

[Skiddaw]

What a splendid idea however! Beats having to find the guard in advance to ask for the train to stop. We've done it a few times when hill walking in the Highlands. I remember once having a right panic attack on the Oban train because we needed to get out at Falls of Cruachan and couldn't find anyone to ask. We very nearly missed it.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

From the original press release:

This new equipment is planned to go live across all eight ‘request-to-stop’ stations on the line from Summer 2022.

From the latest press release:

The first request-stop kiosk on the Far North Line will go on trial at Scotscalder station from Monday 15 August.
Subject to the trial being successful at Scotscalder, the new system will be rolled-out over the coming months at Altnabreac, Kinbrace, Kildonan, Dunrobin Castle, Rogart, Invershin and Culrain.

So running late.
Any indication from anywhere of what the user instructions are, perhaps most importantly, how much in advance of the timed stop do you need to make the request to stop?

What a splendid idea however! Beats having to find the guard in advance to ask for the train to stop. We've done it a few times when hill walking in the Highlands. I remember once having a right panic attack on the Oban train because we needed to get out at Falls of Cruachan and couldn't find anyone to ask. We very nearly missed it.

You still have to ask the guard if you wish to alight. The kiosk is for boarders only.

 

[paul1609]

Not much time to do that if you're travelling between Invershin and Culrain!

Will be interesting to see how successful and popular this "press to stop" is. Any sign of the West Highland Line receiving the same thing?

Nearly every West Highland station South of Fort William has a passing loop with a 10 mph speed limit because of the hydrelastic points. Of those that don't Helensburgh Upper and even Corrour have sufficient passengers that every train would stop anyway. I suspect the time saved would be non existant/ not worth the cost.

 

[Skiddaw]

From the original press release:

From the latest press release:


So running late.
Any indication from anywhere of what the user instructions are, perhaps most importantly, how much in advance of the timed stop do you need to make the request to stop?


You still have to ask the guard if you wish to alight. The kiosk is for boarders only.

Oh I see.... that's a shame... mind you, I suppose anyone could (and would) press the button if it was on the train.

 

[gnolife]

Nearly every West Highland station South of Fort William has a passing loop with a 10 mph speed limit because of the hydrelastic points. Of those that don't Helensburgh Upper and even Corrour have sufficient passengers that every train would stop anyway. I suspect the time saved would be non existant/ not worth the cost.

But West of Fort William, it could potentially be useful at Loch Eil Outward Bound, Locheilside, Lochailhort, and Beasdale.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Oh I see.... that's a shame... mind you, I suppose anyone could (and would) press the button if it was on the train.

Given the numbers of passengers that press the 'assistance' button instead of the flush button, or can't find the 'lock door' button for the toilet, I guess an on train 'next stop please' button would be riddled with problems, including when to press it. The only answer is to do what you may do on the bus and shout at the driver 'next stop please'.

 

[Skiddaw]

Given the numbers of passengers that press the 'assistance' button instead of the flush button, or can't find the 'lock door' button for the toilet, I guess an on train 'next stop please' button would be riddled with problems, including when to press it. The only answer is to do what you may do on the bus and shout at the driver 'next stop please'.

Yes, I can well imagine!!