Virgin rail 'bullies'

[Ferret]

And..? BTW I'd still like to know if people have a vested interest and work for the railway before balancing their objective opinion.

Are you suggesting that if somebody works for the railway, their ability to analyse the facts and determine right from wrong disappears out of the window? If so, I think I just heard your credibility shoot out of the door.

 

[colpepper]

Are you suggesting that if somebody works for the railway, their ability to analyse the facts and determine right from wrong disappears out of the window? If so, I think I just heard your credibility shoot out of the door.

They're likely to be more sympathetic to the hand that feeds them than the average man in the street who uses its services.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

BTW I'd still like to know if people have a vested interest and work for the railway before balancing their objective opinion.

I work for the railway, but I do not have a vested interest in this debate.

 

[Ferret]

They're likely to be more sympathetic to the hand that feeds them than the average man in the street who uses its services.

Ah, so the answer to my question was "yes". Heaven forbid any of us should be able to use objectivity. And what about us railway employees who have sympathy with the man in the street who has managed to pay the correct fare?

 

[Clip]

They're likely to be more sympathetic to the hand that feeds them than the average man in the street who uses its services.

Or some of us work at the front line we are more attuned to and sympathetic to the users of the system rather then the hands that feed us because we know and see the problems of the railway more often then those who pay our wages.

 

[colpepper]

I'm simply asking if there are any rail users who aren't its employees who think TOCs offer good value for money for their services. From the attacks on what I've said most appear to come from railway workers - how are they going to be objective on fare pricing and VFM?

 

[Darandio]

I'm simply asking if there are any rail users who aren't its employees who think TOCs offer good value for money for their services.

Yes I do!

 

[colpepper]

Yes I do!

Any advance (sic) on one?

 

[Clip]

I'm simply asking if there are any rail users who aren't its employees who think TOCs offer good value for money for their services. From the attacks on what I've said most appear to come from railway workers - how are they going to be objective on fare pricing and VFM?

Are we not allowed to be then?

Thanks..

 

[colpepper]

Come on, there must be more than one independent customer who thinks TOCs are exemplars of good value?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I wonder how many members of rail staff are online and think relaxing the restrictions on advance fares is a good idea?

 

[Railjet]

If you turned up at an airport in time for the flight before yours, would the airline let you walk on to that flight?

You might be surprised.

easyJet conditions of Carriage: if you arrive early at the airport for your Flight home, you may transfer for free to an earlier Flight on the same day as the Flight Booked where that earlier Flight has seats available and where it would not cause a delay to its departure.

 

[Clip]

I think your trying to take the thread far from its original course.

but a quick comparison for you..

I want to go to Newcastle on the 1400 or the 1430 - one way East coast £109
BA flight to ponteland - on the 1600 or 1630 - £116 one way. I also have to spend a few quid to get to heathrow and then a few quid getting from Ponteland to the centre of Newcastle.

Which would you say is the most value for money?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You might be surprised.

Aye but do they all do that? I know for sure BA and virgin have never let me board an earlier flight nor ryanair without asking for wedge up front.

 

[Darandio]

Come on, there must be more than one independent customer who thinks TOCs are exemplars of good value?

I imagine the majority are not online?

In fact, by the reckoning of some, they are most likely all either attending court because of the "hidden T&C's" or arguing at a station because they boarded the wrong train.

Or they could be at work.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You might be surprised.

You may well be able to transfer for free, but does that mean you can just stroll through the gates, or do you have to go and change the ticket still?

 

[colpepper]

I think your trying to take the thread far from its original course.

I think you're trying to make it fit your agenda. Shall I root out a few walk on fares and compare them with a fortnight's holiday in the sun?

 

[fairlie]

Advance Ticket restrictions are perfectly easy to understand and are very similar to aeroplanes - you can't go to the airport and demand to be on a different plane to the one on which you're booked without paying a lot more money. It's Off Peak restrictions that are complicated and often unfathomable. I use AP tickets as I need to save the money, but I do wish there were more reasonable walk-on fares available. Failing that, a ticket that was a bit more flexible than AP (valid on a choice of 3 trains or something) would be useful, but I imagine that would be open to still more abuse!

Anyway, there was an ad for Virgin Trains in the paper yesterday which encouraged me to "Beat the system with Virgin" so perhaps you reap what you sow!

 

[Clip]

I think you're trying to make it fit your agenda. Shall I root out a few walk on fares and compare them with a fortnight's holiday in the sun?

No im not.. I am showing you a DIRECT comparison for a journey which is London to Newcastle not some place in the sun.

Thus i was showing you where it was good value for the same journey as compared to an airline. Am i not allowed to do this now?

Can you now set out the rules for your discussion and how you want it to go because i can adjust how i think to fit what you want if it will make you happy. I could even go further and show prices for the journey on National express too but given it takes about 7 hours to do that journey it would be unfair on both rail and flight.

 

[colpepper]

No im not.. I am showing you a DIRECT comparison for a journey which is London to Newcastle not some place in the sun.

Thus i was showing you where it was good value for the same journey as compared to an airline. Am i not allowed to do this now?

Can you now set out the rules for your discussion and how you want it to go because i can adjust how i think to fit what you want if it will make you happy. I could even go further and show prices for the journey on National express too but given it takes about 7 hours to do that journey it would be unfair on both rail and flight.

And these are walk on fares, so if my sister in law says we're having a party tomorrow you must come over I'd be able to get there without taking out a mortgage?

 

[90019]

Any advance (sic) on one?

Yep.
Make it two out of those currently online and reading the thread.

And these are walk on fares, so if my sister in law says we're having a party tomorrow you must come over I'd be able to get there without taking out a mortgage?

Depends how far you have to go, and at what time. But as has been mentioned, some other forms of public transport are just as expensive, if not more so in some cases, others can be cheaper, but with a reason for being so (speed, comfort, etc.).

 

[Darandio]

And these are walk on fares, so if my sister in law says we're having a party tomorrow you must come over I'd be able to get there without taking out a mortgage?

What sort of comment is that?

But seeing as though you ask, don't buy a walk on fare, buy in advance, yes advance even the day before!

Using London to Newcastle as a template, you can buy a ticket right now on the 11:30 from Kings Cross and pay £48.95! Hardly a mortgage is it.

 

[Clip]

And these are walk on fares, so if my sister in law says we're having a party tomorrow you must come over I'd be able to get there without taking out a mortgage?

Not walk on i dont think,as i have never been so silly, but that was the fare available at 1330 when i checked on line so the same fare would be available from the ticket office/TVM inside kings cross. And as pointed out above if yoru going tomorrow then there are fares drastically cheaper then that.

 

[colpepper]

What sort of comment is that?

A fairly straightforward one. Under BR I'd turn up and buy my ticket. Sometimes trains were busy, sometimes they weren't. What difference does it make to railway operation if I buy in advance? Would they take the train off if people didn't buy the tickets or put an extra one on if a few more people wanted to travel? I suggest not which means trains are priced with the sole expedient of making the company more cash.

TOCs have exoticised the idea of turning up and buying a ticket and placed an absurdly high premium on it without any advantage in railway operation. They've tried to change the way people use trains by imposing disproportionate penalties.

 

[DarloRich]

But BR did advance fares too - i think walk up fares were also higher than advance - not sure on your point

 

[colpepper]

But BR did advance fares too - i think walk up fares were also higher than advance - not sure on your point

IIRC BR began to place a premium on rush hour/peak trains sometime in the late 70s which was followed by Friday evening restrictions. Advance booking was only required to reserve a seat, not simply to be allowed to travel. I don't recall any compulsion to book in advance to avoid cost penalties.

 

[DarloRich]

I thought they did APEX and Super Apex - I am sure we used to get cheap deals form Darlington to London on Intercity.

 

[SouthStand]

tocs have exoticised the idea of turning up and buying a ticket and placed an absurdly high premium on it without any advantage in railway operation. They've tried to change the way people use trains by imposing disproportionate penalties.

bingo!

 

[colpepper]

I thought they did APEX and Super Apex - I am sure we used to get cheap deals form Darlington to London on Intercity.

They did introduce saver tickets but they tended to be reductions from Standard fare. There was no £300 type normal tickets, even allowing for inflation. That's all private railway price creepage, giving you what you already had and slapping a big tag on it like it's something special to catch a train without a forward plan. I don't believe many travellers want to book ahead or even, barring a few hot spots and times, that they need to to run an efficient service.

 

[Clip]

They did introduce saver tickets but they tended to be reductions from Standard fare. There was no £300 type normal tickets, even allowing for inflation. That's all private railway price creepage, giving you what you already had and slapping a big tag on it like it's something special to catch a train without a forward plan. I don't believe many travellers want to book ahead or even, barring a few hot spots and times, that they need to to run an efficient service.

But there really should be no need for you to use a walk on fare - you can now buy tickets by various means before you board the train at fares which are a lot cheaper then a walk on fare. I'm sure they have this fare as a disincentive and also for those times when the train could be very busy and the guard may not make it through the whole train before the next stop and thus to stop people evading the fare completely by knowing this and fare dodging.

 

[Oswyntail]

But there really should be no need for you to use a walk on fare - you can now buy tickets by various means before you board the train at fares which are a lot cheaper then a walk on fare.....

Not if you cannot be sure when you are travelling. Flexibility used to be a major selling point of rail travel, but now it is something you pay an (IMHO) extortionate premium for in many cases. This change of commercial strategy mainly serves to make rail less desirable than private car.