• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

317 forever

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,933
Location
North West
I was back in Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago. I rode mainly Country routes (plus Borders Buses route X62).

It seems there are now few buses older than the ex-London Volvo B9TLs around. What was also conspicuous was that, whereas East Coast Buses have some modern buses, Lothian Country buses were mostly 2009/10 Volvo B9TLs and 2013 Volvo B7RLEs.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
I had a thought. Now I was told previously that the Poppy Bus’ fleet number is usually something they consider. Take 811 for example - has a number 11, 551 - which if you add the 5, 5 and 1 together makes 11. Should Lothian decide keep the tradition of having a Poppy Bus while also having the number 11 recognised, perhaps something like 1111 could be more realistic? With 1125 becoming the Pride Bus next year? If 1111 was chosen it certainly would be noticed by the public.

I know the white XLB’s have been suggested previously as well. The Poppy Bus and Pride Bus are good for operational flexibility as well as their important messages so it would be nice to see them remain a part of the fleet. I realise XLB’s do not offer much flexibility though so it may be that something else is chosen (if anything).
 
Last edited:

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,578
Location
Edinburgh
I was back in Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago. I rode mainly Country routes (plus Borders Buses route X62).

It seems there are now few buses older than the ex-London Volvo B9TLs around. What was also conspicuous was that, whereas East Coast Buses have some modern buses, Lothian Country buses were mostly 2009/10 Volvo B9TLs and 2013 Volvo B7RLEs.
I reckon the order of withdrawal of buses over the next 5 years will be:

First round
Second round
Third round
Fourth round (over a long period of time after a big order)
351-400, 951-960, 1000-1050, 1141-1153, 171-173, 195-199 and TB1-6
1-10 (possibly replacing the trainers TB1-6)
Fifth round
Sixth round

This isn’t factual information just my own thoughts.

What does everyone think?
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
1,047
Location
Edinburgh
I reckon the order of withdrawal of buses over the next 5 years will be:

First round

Second round

Third round

Fourth round (over a long period of time after a big order)

Fifth round

Sixth round


This isn’t factual information just my own thoughts.

What does everyone think?
If 905/6 were to be withdrawn, then I'd see 926/7 getting an Orange and Yellow makeover. I don't see them (905/6) going any time soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Maybe that's why they got LED screens then? If they are actually thinking of selling 905/6? (I do still think it's unlikely.)
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,578
Location
Edinburgh
If 905/6 were to be withdrawn, then I'd see 926/7 getting an Orange and Yellow makeover. I don't see them (905/6) going any time soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Maybe that's why they got LED screens then? If they are actually thinking of selling 905/6? (I do still think it's unlikely.)
Or some of the ex London batch could replace them.
 

CN04NRJ

Established Member
Joined
28 Nov 2019
Messages
1,858
Location
UK
I reckon the order of withdrawal of buses over the next 5 years will be:

First round

Second round

Third round

Fourth round (over a long period of time after a big order)

Fifth round

Sixth round


This isn’t factual information just my own thoughts.

What does everyone think?

Really don't think 1-10 will become training buses myself. Probably destined for the bus depot in the sky after withdrawal... probably a good few years left in TB1-6 anyway.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
Really don't think 1-10 will become training buses myself. Probably destined for the bus depot in the sky after withdrawal... probably a good few years left in TB1-6 anyway.
I do think they will struggle to sell 1-50 as very few ended up being built for the UK market. I think only First Berkshire and First Essex ended up buying some, less than Lothian combined. Who knows what could happen with them though. I agree I can’t see TB1-6 going anywhere anytime soon, in fact I suspect TB1-4 could even see the same treatment that TB5-6 have received soon.

I think we could see many of the idle buses either return to the road or sold soon. Some of these buses have been lying idle for nearly 3 years now.
 
Joined
31 Jul 2020
Messages
742
Location
West Lothian
I do think they will struggle to sell 1-50 as very few ended up being built for the UK market. I think only First Berkshire and First Essex ended up buying some, less than Lothian combined. Who knows what could happen with them though. I agree I can’t see TB1-6 going anywhere anytime soon, in fact I suspect TB1-4 could even see the same treatment that TB5-6 have received soon.

I think we could see many of the idle buses either return to the road or sold soon. Some of these buses have been lying idle for nearly 3 years now.
I've noticed 593 and 594 have been reappearing on the trackers again. I know that probably doesn't mean anything, if anything they're probably just being shunted around the depot. But, for sake of debate, could this mean the return of 591 - 594 to service?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
I've noticed 593 and 594 have been reappearing on the trackers again. I know that probably doesn't mean anything, if anything they're probably just being shunted around the depot. But, for sake of debate, could this mean the return of 591 - 594 to service?
It’s something I’ve noticed too. 592 was moving a few weeks back too. Interestingly 591 hasn’t been tracking, it could of course be a fault but I do wonder if that’s the one that had the engine problem.
 
Joined
31 Jul 2020
Messages
742
Location
West Lothian
It’s something I’ve noticed too. 592 was moving a few weeks back too. Interestingly 591 hasn’t been tracking, it could of course be a fault but I do wonder if that’s the one that had the engine problem.
I remember there was one that "messed itself" quite badly (I think). That one could have been 591.

I'm not 100% on this part but, was that the reason they all went into storage? Or, was it just reliability issues?
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
1,047
Location
Edinburgh
I do think they will struggle to sell 1-50 as very few ended up being built for the UK market. I think only First Berkshire and First Essex ended up buying some, less than Lothian combined. Who knows what could happen with them though. I agree I can’t see TB1-6 going anywhere anytime soon, in fact I suspect TB1-4 could even see the same treatment that TB5-6 have received soon.

I think we could see many of the idle buses either return to the road or sold soon. Some of these buses have been lying idle for nearly 3 years now.
I think a company like Transdev (Probably the Harrogate Company) could snap them up, maybe even McGill's Scotland East?
 

CN04NRJ

Established Member
Joined
28 Nov 2019
Messages
1,858
Location
UK
I think a company like Transdev (Probably the Harrogate Company) could snap them up, maybe even McGill's Scotland East?

I seriously doubt they'd sell to a direct competitor. Of course things can happen down the line, with B9TLs new to First (formerly) competing in West Lothian and Tridents new to Lothian with Bright Bus.
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
1,047
Location
Edinburgh
I seriously doubt they'd sell to a direct competitor. Of course things can happen down the line, with B9TLs new to First (formerly) competing in West Lothian and Tridents new to Lothian with Bright Bus.
That's why I think they'll move to Transdev (and Ensign too of course.)
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
I seriously doubt they'd sell to a direct competitor. Of course things can happen down the line, with B9TLs new to First (formerly) competing in West Lothian and Tridents new to Lothian with Bright Bus.
And in both cases they were sold to/from somebody who at the time wasn’t competing with Lothian. The bonded windowed ex London’s were from Metroline (via Ensign), and the tridents were sold to West Coast Motors I think for use in Glasgow/Rothesay.

I do think many of the 7900’s will meet a premature end when their time is up with Lothian as I can’t see them being an attractive option for the overwhelming majority of operators.
 
Last edited:

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,474
I do think many of the 7900’s will meet a premature end when their time is up with Lothian as I can’t see them being an attractive option for the overwhelming majority of operators.
Do they return better fuel economy than straight diesel buses of that time period?
Would airport car park shuttle operators be interested in them? I've noticed at least one such operator at Edinburgh uses older vehicles though I'm not sure when they would typically replace them.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
Do they return better fuel economy than straight diesel buses of that time period?
Would airport car park shuttle operators be interested in them? I've noticed at least one such operator at Edinburgh uses older vehicles though I'm not sure when they would typically replace them.
Car Park Shuttles are slowly going Electric as that’s by far the best option for them, often vehicles hired in can prove value for money. It could be an option for a smaller Airport, but again the Enviro200 appears to be be preferred option for many.

The problem is that the 7900 is designed really as a city bus, of which the market is probably not as high as it once was due to the rise of Electric buses. I believe less than 100 of the original design were built so I’d be very surprised if none got cannibalised when they’re withdrawn by Lothian. They’re not bad at rural work, but better second hand options are out there, such as Citaros and Eclipse2’s; the latter of which is a very versatile all round bus. The only thing that works in the 7900’s favour is that they’re Euro 6, but does that necessarily make them a more attractive option than say a Euro 5 Eclipse2? Probably not. You’re likely better buying the Eclipse2 and converting it to Euro 6.

When Lothian bought the 7900’s, they had access to Volvo’s parts/customer care included in the deal, as with pretty much any new bus order. Generally speaking when a bus is sold on that access is no longer there as it’s then second hand, as the new owner does not have a contract in place with the manufacturer, unless of course they already have a contract if say they already operated that vehicle type. This is less of an issue with buses that were built in mass numbers that are out of production as usually the manufacturer will keep making the parts for some years after, but it can be a big problem with buses that were not built in many numbers that are now out of production. The 7900 was a big hit in the continent though so I don’t think that will be an issue just yet, albeit any UK only parts will start to dry up eventually, and brexit would play a part in that too. Now it may be that there is a lifetime contract with the 7900’s that is included in any sale, but I’m not sure if that’s the case. I doubt it would be.

As for fuel economy I have no idea, you’d likely have to see if Volvo have anything listed on their website.
 

computerSaysNo

Established Member
Joined
14 Dec 2018
Messages
1,474
Car Park Shuttles are slowly going Electric as that’s by far the best option for them, often vehicles hired in can prove value for money. It could be an option for a smaller Airport, but again the Enviro200 appears to be be preferred option for many.
I agree with that, I've been thinking for years that carpark shuttles would be (/have been) perfect for operating electric buses or before that testing out electric/battery buses. Low daily milage, never far from base, ...
 

Lothian Buses

On Moderation
Joined
18 Jan 2022
Messages
34
Location
UK
Has the B5LH livery been announced yet, anyone?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There is a hybrid on the 400 suggesting the other batch that is getting a new livery is going to Skylink.
(Image shows screenshot of vehicle 569, SA15VUV, tracking on the map)

1664782879458.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:

eh1

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2022
Messages
114
Location
Edinburgh
Is the b5lh livery announced yet anyone?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There is a hybrid on the 400 suggesting the other batch that is getting a new livery is going to skylink.View attachment 121595
That will just be covering for a shortage of Skylink buses, doesn't mean that 579-590 will be returning for Skylink, highly doubt it sadly.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
Is the b5lh livery announced yet anyone?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There is a hybrid on the 400 suggesting the other batch that is getting a new livery is going to skylink.View attachment 121595
As was said previously as soon as it’s revealed it will be shared here, and that should happen when the first one(s) come(s) back (hopefully this week).

Just because one (or multiple) buses is/are on a particular route does not mean that it’s getting new buses.

569 is the bus with the Subway Delivers wrap. The 200 and 400 frequently have non Skylink buses allocated. 556 is on the 200, and 1005 is on the 400 as well; that replaced 507 which must’ve broken down/failed as it ran empty to Longstone from Fort Kinnaird.

5 Skylink branded buses are sat in Longstone just now (499, 504, 505, 507 and 509). Only 1 of those has been out today (507). 509 hasn’t moved in almost a week apparently so clearly something is up with that.

That’s your answer. There’s quite a few needing maintenance at the minute. Nothing unusual about that.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,578
Location
Edinburgh
It could be that 496 and 497 are replacing 926 and 927 as has previously been suggested and possibly some of 498 upwards are replacing the 09 plate B9TLs at Lothian Country and possibly all or some of the hybrid buses 579-590 going back to Skylink duties alongside some of the batch already on Skylink but I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
It could be that 496 and 497 are replacing 926 and 927 as has previously been suggested and possibly some of 498 upwards are replacing the 09 plate B9TLs at Lothian Country and possibly all or some of the hybrid buses 579-590 going back to Skylink duties alongside some of the batch already on Skylink but I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.
It just seems too far fetched for these to be repainted and for 496-510 to all be repainted as well. Granted 496-497 were surplus but 498-510 aren’t. Not to mention 498-510 would all need mods if they were taken off Skylink too. It just seems an awful lot of work for not much gain.

Lothiancountry already have 571-578 and so if they did gain 579-590 then that isn’t going to disrupt very much in terms of repaint, there’s obviously the issue as to the what routes they could end up on. There’s still the possibility that 571-590 will all end up at ECB too, but I think my previous suggestion as to how it might play out would seem more probable.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,448
It could be that 496 and 497 are replacing 926 and 927 as has previously been suggested and possibly some of 498 upwards are replacing the 09 plate B9TLs at Lothian Country and possibly all or some of the hybrid buses 579-590 going back to Skylink duties alongside some of the batch already on Skylink but I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.
instead of this constant speculating why dont we just wait and see. All these ideas seem way too far fetched when its likely just 496/7 getting repainted of the Skylink batch as they’re surplus
 

ScotlandBuses

Member
Joined
21 Feb 2020
Messages
5
Location
Scotland
Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows if the Tridents SN51AYD - SN51AYP (620-630) were ever in the harlequin livery without dual doors?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
2,281
Location
Edinburgh
Hi, I was wondering if anyone knows if the Tridents SN51AYD - SN51AYP (620-630) were ever in the harlequin livery without dual doors?
Those 51 plate tridents (606-630) were all new in the original harlequin design and were all dual doored. I believe 617 was the only one to have been repainted into the later harlequin livery that had been converted to single door. The others I’m sure all went into madder and white following conversion to single door.

629 and 630 later became 599 and 600. I believe 599 would’ve been the only one to have been in the later harlequin livery whilst retaining its dual doors. Both were later converted to single door and were repainted into madder and white.

I don’t think any were single door and in the original version of Harlequin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Top