Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract will NOT be extended

[Mainliner]

Good opportunity to revamp the marketing, to bring it more in line with the reality (and simply ensure that the advertised food and drink offerings are always available, which surely can’t be too hard).

 

[hexagon789]

Good opportunity to revamp the marketing, to bring it more in line with the reality (and simply ensure that the advertised food and drink offerings are always available, which surely can’t be too hard).

The impression I got is that cost-cutting and economy measures are to be employed, so expect worse catering offerings if indeed at all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Most travel is within the budget of most taxpayers, CS isn't, it is essentially taxpayer funding of the wealthy (and rail staff).

The seating is usually around the £50-£70 mark, which is well in line with daytime seated fares.

The sleeper berths are usually around the £200-£250 mark up to about £400 for the deluxe berths, but that includes travel. Compared to mid-range chain hotels, which will cost you upwards £200 a night in London, that's not so bad.

The sleeper isn't a budget option, but that doesn't mean it's bad value.

 

[Iskra]

The seating is usually around the £50-£70 mark, which is well in line with daytime seated fares.

The sleeper berths are usually around the £200-£250 mark up to about £400 for the deluxe berths, but that includes travel. Compared to mid-range chain hotels, which will cost you upwards £200 a night in London, that's not so bad.

The sleeper isn't a budget option, but that doesn't mean it's bad value.

But, if there's 2 people, the sleeper value becomes far worse for a berth vs a hotel, because you don't pay twice for the hotel room.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But, if there's 2 people, the sleeper value becomes far worse for a berth vs a hotel, because you don't pay twice for the hotel room.

It doesn't look like you do on the sleeper either.

Choosing a random Friday in Jan, it's £230 for a standard room for one passenger London-Aberdeen and £245 for two passengers.

 

[Iskra]

It doesn't look like you do on the sleeper either.

Choosing a random Friday in Jan, it's £230 for a standard room for one passenger London-Aberdeen and £245 for two passengers.

I suspect it being January may be ameliorating those prices. I paid £360 for two in August. However you split it, it isn't particularly competitive or alluring.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I suspect it being January may be ameliorating those prices. I paid £360 for two in August. However you split it, it isn't particularly competitive or alluring.

True, fares are going to be higher in the summer, but so are hotels (maybe less so in London's financial district).

But my understanding was that CS had moved more to a per-cabin charging model, just as you'd see in hotels or on ferries, rather than the old model of charging per berth and putting strangers in the same cabin.

It's never going to be the budget option, mind.

 

[DelayRepay]

Conversely, providing an 'experience' that gets the tourists with rich pockets to remote parts of Scotland is likely (seen as) good for the local economy and providing jobs etc.

I agree but would suggest a proper cost-benefit analysis is needed. How much revenue do Sleeper passengers generate for businesses in the remote parts of Scotland, and how many jobs does that create? It may well be that spending the subsidy on something else could actually create more jobs.

 

[Scotrail84]

According to an FOI someone posted on Twitter, the sleeper is to be remerged with ScotRail to ensure its longterm financial viability.

Got a link to that please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The impression I got is that cost-cutting and economy measures are to be employed, so expect worse catering offerings if indeed at all.

I'd never use it if there was no catering. I can't sleep well on it - the pleasure is the catering!

It's fairly simple and can stay that way - microwaveable stuff but served on proper crockery etc. Haggis, neeps and tatties is both the important one and really easy to reheat!

I wonder if they might consider dropping the Aberdeen to simplify the Highlander's working?

 

[AlterEgo]

Most travel is within the budget of most taxpayers, CS isn't, it is essentially taxpayer funding of the wealthy (and rail staff).

The fares are definitely aimed at (wealthier) tourists. It’s not great politics, I agree.

CS really misses out on a solid budget option like couchettes. It’s a shame.

I wonder if they might consider dropping the Aberdeen to simplify the Highlander's working?

Isn’t there still a lot of lucrative gas traffic on that portion, or has that ship sailed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

CS really misses out on a solid budget option like couchettes. It’s a shame.

It does, though it kind of misses out on the height to be able to do three high. If it was two high it wouldn't fit many more per coach than Sleepers. Lengthways would be best but would be ruled out as per the pods.

 

[MotCO]

Was this at a break clause, or some random date? Did CS throw in the towel, or did the Scottish Ministers terminate the contract?

Who will provide the motive power? Will the dedicated locos transfer across?

 

[AlterEgo]

It does, though it kind of misses out on the height to be able to do three high. If it was two high it wouldn't fit many more per coach than Sleepers. Lengthways would be best but would be ruled out as per the pods.

You could even have one bed on the floor. There are people who would use that if it was offered at a discount.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could even have one bed on the floor. There are people who would use that if it was offered at a discount.

That is a fair point - you could indeed have one at basically ground level (or stepped up very slightly) thus allowing you to get to three. I suppose the original Megabus sleeper buses had three and a coach is similar in height floor to ceiling as a UK gauge train.

 

[realemil]

That is a fair point - you could indeed have one at basically ground level (or stepped up very slightly) thus allowing you to get to three. I suppose the original Megabus sleeper buses had three and a coach is similar in height floor to ceiling as a UK gauge train.

Realistically what’s stopping CS from making couchettes similar to the “pods” on the new NJ stock?

That would be a lot more attractive (imo), to people who don’t want to share.

 

[Davester50]

Compared to mid-range chain hotels, which will cost you upwards £200 a night in London, that's not so bad.

Upwards of £200 a night is more than mid-range. Several Doubletrees in London tonight for less than £150.

Shame we can't have just given it to OeBB to run on a Trans European Night network

 

[Peter Sarf]

Scottish Transport Minister Jenny Gilruth has announced that the current Serco sleeper contract will be terminated on 25/06/2023 and that work is underway to determine how services can continue to be delivered after that date:-

Ministerial decision on Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

Gulp.

So for all those who felt it was overpriced for the quality. I am afraid it was actually over funded. That announcement does not say to me that the government expects to find a cheaper way of running it better.

Mods feel free BUT I really think this could be a first indication of the austere times ahead for the railways. The country is short of cash and why should we pay for loss making services that have less and less passengers. That is the excuse I think we will hear.

 

[Clansman]

Upwards of £200 a night is more than mid-range. Several Doubletrees in London tonight for less than £150.

A Doubletree doesn't transport you 500 miles while you sleep though.

 

[Davester50]

A Doubletree doesn't transport you 500 miles while you sleep though.

Read what I was quoting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Realistically what’s stopping CS from making couchettes similar to the “pods” on the new NJ stock?

That would be a lot more attractive (imo), to people who don’t want to share.

Not really wide enough? Could be possible though. But if they're cost cutting they're not going to be ordering in new rolling stock! At best things like seats could be swapped.

 

[zero]

A Doubletree doesn't transport you 500 miles while you sleep though.

It does let you check in at 1500 and stay until 1200 rather than 2230-0700 (ok slightly longer for the Highlands).

 

[realemil]

Tomorrow (first pic) & today (second), cheapest walk-up fares with the sleeper.

If fares like the first one appear more often (£70 for a seat), that’s a lot more lucrative compared to the £150~ walk-up fare of an Avanti train in the morning, but 95% of the time the CS is already sold out (as seen by trains for tomorrow)

 

[Wynd]

Cracking opportunity to get the Aberdeen portion started from Fraserburgh/Peterhead when they re-open.

 

[dk1]

Oh well, the Scottish government will just have to take it over. They where very keen that these trains must run at all cost.

 

[Wynd]

The aim of all parties is to get passenger numbers on the railways up. It is even more imperative now that the primary shareholder in this is the Scottish Government.

 

[JonathanH]

The aim of all parties is to get passenger numbers on the railways up.

...at an acceptable cost to the taxpayer, not at a greater cost to the taxpayer.

 

[cactustwirly]

British Airways and easyJet are also options for Aberdeen and Inverness to London

 

[Peter Sarf]

Back to bargain berths or further into the "luxury travel experience" market for tourists such that less/no subsidy is required. Depends on your definition of "value for money" I guess.
Or is it The End?

Well the only way it will survive is covering its costs - that seems to be higher prices. If it is no longer aimed at UK citizens then the government have to find a new justification for subsidising the CS.

I assume that, translated into English that means taking the sleeper operation "in house"?

I was going to suggest it is doomed but :-

According to an FOI someone posted on Twitter, the sleeper is to be remerged with ScotRail to ensure its longterm financial viability.

Interesting.

Or saving money by not paying for two lots of management?

Moving the sleeper out of Scotrail never made any sense.

There does seem a lot Scotrail could do to support the operation. It really could benefit from being under Scotrails structure (or even Avanti).

The seating is usually around the £50-£70 mark, which is well in line with daytime seated fares.

The sleeper berths are usually around the £200-£250 mark up to about £400 for the deluxe berths, but that includes travel. Compared to mid-range chain hotels, which will cost you upwards £200 a night in London, that's not so bad.

The sleeper isn't a budget option, but that doesn't mean it's bad value.

I would compare the accommodation to Travelodge. A lot less than £200. And why compare with London priced hotels ?.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would compare the accommodation to Travelodge. A lot less than £200. And why compare with London priced hotels ?.

Quite obviously because the majority of the custom is going to London and back, and the practical choice, if one needs to be there in the morning, is a flight or day train down the previous day and a hotel, or the Sleeper.

Sure, you could do something like day train to Milton Keynes or Stevenage/flight to Luton, stay there and then head into London, but few will consider that.

As for merging it into ScotRail it's fairly obvious that will save money. No dedicated customer services department and no need for dedicated drivers and guards on the parts within Scotland etc.