Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[overthewater]

I would be certain they already have. Once McGills get a foot hold with daysavers and weekly’s into Edinburgh it will be pointless running anything out from Edinburgh to West Lothian. Only route that will be saved is the 43. When McGill expand onto country routes it will be a dead horse

I don't think that will be the case, First did this aswell but still people traveling into Edinburgh use Lothian

 

[Mickcloud9]

I don't think that will be the case, First did this aswell but still people traveling into Edinburgh use Lothian

With the new Eastern Scottish branding etc, it might be all change…

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't think this service change is the start of Lothian "giving up" in West Lothian.
Someone mentioned a few days ago that they thought there would be a few more service changes both with Lothian and with McGill's, until services reached an equilibrium; I see this service change as the start of that. Lothian consolidating their services as Edinburgh via Corstorphine/Broxburn/Bathgate/Armadale to Whitburn, and Edinburgh via Sighthill/Calders/Livingston to Bathgate. This leaves the door open for McGill's to take Edinburgh via Corstorphine/Broxburn/Livingston to Whitburn or Bathgate/Armadale/Blackridge, and Edinburgh via Sighthill/Calders/Livingston/West Calder/Loganlea, plus local services as they see fit.

I dont think it's the start of them "giving up" either, the decline already started quite a while back. I'd argue that the 275 and X17/276 not being reinstated in full were the first real signs of decline followed by the 275 being axed. I must say this is one of the potential outcomes I've always thought could happen. Where the "local" services would be withdrawn and they'd continue running the Edinburgh services before they eventually go too. I had also always worried that in the long run people in West Lothian would end up with a worse off service which is what seems to have happened.

 

[Humberscot]

I dont think it's the start of them "giving up" either, the decline already started quite a while back. I'd argue that the 275 and X17/276 not being reinstated in full were the first real signs of decline followed by the 275 being axed. I must say this is one of the potential outcomes I've always thought could happen. Where the "local" services would be withdrawn and they'd continue running the Edinburgh services before they eventually go too. I had also always worried that in the long run people in West Lothian would end up with a worse off service which is what seems to have happened.

It looks to me like they want Lothian Country to focus on a collection of routes from larger conurbations in West Lothian, to Edinburgh and possibly to run it all from Edinburgh depots. What that means for the future of the Livingston depot is unclear.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It looks to me like they want Lothian Country to focus on a collection of routes from larger conurbations in West Lothian, to Edinburgh and possibly to run it all from Edinburgh depots. What that means for the future of the Livi depot is unclear.

That seems to me what they're aiming to do too but I'd question the sustainability of such a network. If the other operator got their dire driver situation sorted there's nothing stopping them launching an X18 alternative and because they have a more comprehensive network it'll be far more attractive to regular passengers, this was the exact same issue Lothian Country had when they first started back in 2018.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I'm very surprised with this, in all honestly. The X18/X27/X28 are all busy routes and the 276/280 get their fair share of passengers too. They could’ve kept the X18/27/28 as they currently are just withdrawing the 2 West Lothian local routes but if they’re retreating then they may as well do it so people aren’t hanging on.

 

[Simon75]

Are there 2 bus garages in Livingston?

 

[stevenedin]

Is there 2 bus garages in Livingston?

Just 1 as far as I'm aware at Deans Industrial Estate I think it is.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Just 1 as far as I'm aware at Deans Industrial Estate I think it is.

It's on Nairn Road.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I would be certain they already have. Once McGills get a foot hold with daysavers and weekly’s into Edinburgh it will be pointless running anything out from Edinburgh to West Lothian. Only route that will be saved is the 43. When McGill expand onto country routes it will be a dead horse

Name me a service that can get from Bathgate to Edinburgh in under an hour, and just over an hour in the morning peak?

How do you know McGill's are going to expand onto core very well used LCB services? I can't see the staffing situation at any company improving any time soon and I'm sure it's well known what T&Cs McGill's offer, Horsburgh and SD Travel are more attractive employers..

 

[jb66]

Pumpherston will now have no Sunday service at all.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Pumpherston will now have no Sunday service at all.

I know right, I wish that Pumpherston wasn't just simply an "add-on" and actually a through route (if you get what I mean).

 

[jb66]

I wish they would make a bus corridor between harrysmuir Road and Grange Road instead of the blocked off path, would make Pumpherston a through route.

 

[Graham Alexand]

I wish they would make a bus corridor between harrysmuir Road and Grange Road instead of the blocked off path, would make Pumpherston a through route.

Or even have the buses run via Mid Calder, so from Livingston it would run through Dedridge East and Mid Calder?

 

[GusB]

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[Bus Lightyear]

The depot is leased from West Lothian Council. First Glasgow and Aberdeen had been paying the rent for the depot for the last year under the first operation.

I find this hard to believe. Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

 

[DunsBus]

I find this hard to believe. Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

The claim is just an assumption from someone who refuses to accept LCB has lost the battle in West Lothian and that it is more or less dead.

If I'm correct Deans was built to replace the depots at Centrex and Almondvale, at First's expense.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

The claim is just an assumption from someone who refuses to accept LCB has lost the battle in West Lothian and that it is more or less dead.

If I'm correct Deans was built to replace the depots at Centrex and Almondvale, at First's expense.

I remember the Eastern depot in Bathgate near the outdoor market. It may have closed during the early days of GRT or First.

 

[DunsBus]

I remember the Eastern depot in Bathgate near the outdoor market. It may have closed during the early days of GRT or First.

IIRC Centrex was opened to replace Bathgate. This was in summer 1995 so early days of First.

 

[Darklord8899]

IIRC Centrex was opened to replace Bathgate. This was in summer 1995 so early days of First.

That is my understanding as well, Bathgate and the old Almondvale Bus Station/depot were replaced by Centrex

 

[GusB]

Stay on topic, please. This thread is for discussing matters pertaining to Lothian, not Eastern or its successors.

 

[Scott mac]

The claim is just an assumption from someone who refuses to accept LCB has lost the battle in West Lothian and that it is more or less dead.

If I'm correct Deans was built to replace the depots at Centrex and Almondvale, at First's expense.

Lcb haven't lost any battle

 

[Baileygirl]

Is the 90 day notice no longer needed for cancellation of bus services? Or are the 280 and 276 being suspended under covid regulations then cancelled at a later date like the X38 was?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Lcb haven't lost any battle

Yes they have, they’re running 3 routes into West Lothian and have cut off 3 major channels. This is the beginning of the end. I’ll give it until Summer next year and LC will be either off the map or an Agreement will be reached between McGills and Lothian where Lothian do the West Lothian to Edinburgh routes and McGills do West Lothian local only

 

[DunsBus]

Yes they have, they’re running 3 routes into West Lothian and have cut off 3 major channels. This is the beginning of the end. I’ll give it until Summer next year and LC will be either off the map or an Agreement will be reached between McGills and Lothian where Lothian do the West Lothian to Edinburgh routes and McGills do West Lothian local only

I have no pleasure at all in saying "I told you so" to those on here who have scoffed and laughed whenever I've said that the LC venture was always destined to fail.

The fact is that LC is a money pit, has been right from the start, and this network revision is a last throw of the dice. You also have to question the wisdom of keeping a depot open for a now pared-back network of six services.
I wouldn't even give LC a year TBH - I'll be very surprised if they're still around by next summer (other than the potential scenario above mentioned by @ScotRail158725).

 

[stevenedin]

On another topic (Lothian related). I was wondering if anyone knows if the Enviro 400XLBs all have the same engine?

The reason I ask is that they don’t all have the same engine sound when sat idle at the stops and some even sound different when they are moving.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Just thinking West Lothian Council will be pretty frustrated with this news. Weren’t quite a few of the council supported routes pulled or curtailed because they were all being covered commercially, but several areas will now be with a bus connection unless the council go back out to tender or convince McGills to reroute some buses.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Lcb haven't lost any battle

I'd say they've lost a 'battle' in certain parts of West Lothian but not necessarily a 'war'. It may never have been appropriate to view the situation like that anyway.
Most people seem to think there is little future for Lothian Country in rural areas of West Lothian. I'd agree and go further to say there's no future for McGill's east of Wilkieston and Broxburn.

 

[freddiem]

A combined frequency of every 20 minutes on the X27/X28 seems very confusing to me. That means you’re going to have those awkward 40 minute gaps on the X27. I would assume this means the X28 is dropping to hourly as well? It could of course be the other way round.

We’ve gone full circle and now we’re back pretty much where LC started in West Lothian in August 2018, minus the odd change here and there.

The 276 I’m not surprised is going, they’ve tried time and time again to make this work and every time it results in a change. The 280 I’m surprised is, and does raise serious questions as to where LC’s future lies as they’re now withdrawing on the routes run solely within West Lothian.

As for the fleet this surely frees up all of 176-190? With LC taking on all of 571-590 plus keeping some of the ex London’s, perhaps 1030-1049? 931-934 I’d expect to go as well.

Each of the X27 and X28 will operate every 40 mins meaning between Bathgate and Mid Calder there will be a regular every 20 mins service. Every 40 mins on the separate sections will be more awkward to follow, but then again a guaranteed every 40 is better than an erratic, pot luck frequency like just now

 

[Scotrail314209]

One thing I would like to happen at some point is a later 200 departure from the Airport at around 1/1:30am

The recent earlier journey at 3:05 towards the Airport usually has a fair few passengers on.

I think it would be popular, especially with lots of flights landing around midnight.