Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland - Timetables?

[nanstallon]

We close online booking at midnight the day before. The sort of system that books travel 5 mins ahead of train departures is probably beyond the capability of most heritage railways currently and may never be financially viable.

This is so British - "we don't do customer service, they can take it or leave it". Holidaymakers don't want to be forced to book everything in advance and take their chances on the weather.

Don't be surprised when a lot of people decide they'll leave it and go somewhere they are welcome.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The printed timetables were complicated enough back then with blue, red, yellow,green days and nearly all the services planned for the whole year. I found that good but sometimes I could not distinguish the colors.

Perhaps the thing is that with the wonderful WHR there is just too much railway in the Eryri region.

 

[paul1609]

This is so British - "we don't do customer service, they can take it or leave it". Holidaymakers don't want to be forced to book everything in advance and take their chances on the weather.

Don't be surprised when a lot of people decide they'll leave it and go somewhere they are welcome.

I think theres a misunderstanding here. We close online booking the night before but we still have ticket offices at both ends of the line plus a telephone enquiry line. What we dont do is continue to book people on full trains, we suggest other trains or days to visit.

 

[DelW]

I think theres a misunderstanding here. We close online booking the night before but we still have ticket offices at both ends of the line plus a telephone enquiry line. What we dont do is continue to book people on full trains, we suggest other trains or days to visit.

As one who prefers to be able to turn up on the spur of the moment, that's good to hear, and I hope that that policy continues.

I'd also hope that those posters on here who misunderstood the situation and were, as a result, so critical in some posts above, will revisit their comments in the light of your clarification.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As one who prefers to be able to turn up on the spur of the moment, that's good to hear, and I hope that that policy continues.

I'd also hope that those posters on here who misunderstood the situation and were, as a result, so critical in some posts above, will revisit their comments in the light of your clarification.

Yes, the criticism was because the OP implied that there were no on the day sales at all.

 

[nanstallon]

I think theres a misunderstanding here. We close online booking the night before but we still have ticket offices at both ends of the line plus a telephone enquiry line. What we dont do is continue to book people on full trains, we suggest other trains or days to visit.

I'm glad to read that. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[philthetube]

Unfortunately my experience of the Bala Lake last month was similarly awkward. Turned up with my 3 year old as a spur of the moment visit while camping nearby, we hadn’t pre booked. On arrival we found the ticket window boarded over, so asked for tickets in the cafe. Was told rather abruptly I should have booked in advance, that they no longer sold tickets at the station and that I would need to book a ticket myself using my phone!

If I didn’t have my daughter in tow I’d have told them my thoughts on this and walked out but as she’d been looking forward to a trip on the “chugga chugga choo choo train” all morning I faffed about for about 10 minutes on the website and booked it. Train departed I would say less than a quarter full in the middle of the school summer holidays. Utter madness.

There are plenty of reasons for not selling at the café, loading knowledge, staff training, cafe staff may only work one day a month. However there are no good reasons for not selling by train staff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are plenty of reasons for not selling at the café, loading knowledge, staff training, cafe staff may only work one day a month. However there are no good reasons for not selling by train staff.

If a line like that has a fare structure more complex than the coffee menu it needs to have a serious think.

 

[notverydeep]

True, although I don’t usually have that much cash on me nowadays, I tend to use my card most of the time. If I hadn’t had my daughter with me I might have been more inclined to try that but with a young child you’re always thinking in the back of your mind how upset they’d be if you were turfed off last minute.

It was more just the principal of it which annoyed me, it’s the first time I’ve ever visited any tourist attraction willing to pay which has actually refused to sell me a ticket, when there is ample room. By the look of passenger numbers on the day they need to be as welcoming of people’s money as possible.

When I visited The Balea Lake Railway in the last week of August, a volunteer staff member was selling tickets from the picnic style table loacted between the signal box and the entrance to the café at Llanuwchllyn. The vast majority of the visitors I saw arriving seemed to buy their tickets this way - including paying by card - I saw few if any that had pre-booked. The staff member turned out to be the guard and were happy to bundle a few later arrivals into the train, waiting for a family that drove up at the timetabled departure time and deal with their tickets later and they later sold some tickets to other people who joined at Bala in the train before departure. The train was busy, but there were plenty of places for passengers (including my family) who turned up unbooked.

The volunteers I encountered were friendly and welcoming to all, and keen to help people they thought were unsure, but any volunteer run organisation will attract people with a mix of approaches to and experience of dealing with the public. It would seem you were unlucky with the member of staff in the café, presumably not being up to date with the arrangements and the guard on that day not making such a point of waiting at the key point where people would arrive from the parking area to sell tickets.

I hope things will get easier for heritage railways and their passengers next year, as this year was clearly planned with a high degree of concern about coronavirus in mind, but by the time the summer actually came most passengers seemed to be well beyond worrying about the pandemic and much more keen to decide their day's activities without pre-booking...

 

[paul1609]

If a line like that has a fare structure more complex than the coffee menu it needs to have a serious think.

In our case its not the fare structure thats the issue its fitting groups on to a train thats prebooked to a typical 75%. We carry far more people with prams, wheelchairs, mobility scooters and dogs than national rail. A cafe assistant whose typically a casual university student on summer leave and knows nothing about the trains will struggle to deal with the enquiries amongst a queue for bacon sandwiches and cappacinos.

 

[philthetube]

As long as tickets are available at the location, and capacity is not exceeded by sales then it doesn't matter who is selling the tickets as long as the public know where to get them.

 

[1955LR]

I went on The Ffestiniog last Saturday using the TFW Ffestiniog Round Robin ticket . I previously had emailed the railway to check they still accepted the TFW ticket, they said yes, but advised that I ring to book a seat to be sure of availability. I didn't do this as I was unsure when or which way round I would travel. On arrival at Blaenau Ffestiniog just before midday, I approached the train Manager and was offered a seat in a coach he said was available for walk up fares, and was busily selling tickets to a party of 3 visitors from the USA . Uneventful run down to Minffordd where I got off so that I wanted plenty of time to catch next train on the Cambrian line. I could have done the full run to Porthmadog , but it suited me to catch the earlier train . As matter of interest speaking to the Train manager, he said they kept one carriage free for walk up fares & he had just taken over £600 in fares. The TFW Round Robin does not appear to have any restrictions on TOC.

 

[geoffk]

I hope to report back on the Pontypool & Blaenavon and the Brecon Mountain Railways next week - that is, unless events at Balmoral cause their plans to be cancelled.

Both these railways were running as advertised and I visited both. Walk-up tickets available; on the P&BR this took the form of a rover ticket as it was their three-day steam gala. Trains were quite busy and plenty of visitors. BMR trains that I saw were just about full and they included coach parties. There are three trains a day and you are allowed to break your journey at Pontsticill on the way back and return to Pant on a later train. Not sure how they would guarantee you a seat though.

 

[James H]

The Swanage Railway's latest news update to members talks about a decline (traced back to 2017) in the 'turn up and go' market and hints that the railway will be turning more to 'experiences' and packaged deals.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The Swanage Railway's latest news update to members talks about a decline (traced back to 2017) in the 'turn up and go' market and hints that the railway will be turning more to 'experiences' and packaged deals.

There are only so many cream tea and a ride packages (or similar) a person can eat, even when on holiday.

 

[JGurney]

Again, at the risk of going blue in the face, what YOU want to do is not what MOST visitors want to do. It seems very hard for posters here to grasp that the railway has to position itself to attract as many people in the later group. MOST people want to chuff to the end of the line, have a brew and a cake and come back. MOST visitors aren't looking for one way trips ( unless perhaps the Snowdon Railway)

Yes, of course I was well aware while making those journeys that many other passengers were doing out-and-back trips. However I don't see what any railway has to gain by turning away all other potential passengers. The only possible advantage I can see to not allowing one-way or part-route passengers to travel is that they might take up a seat which could otherwise be sold to someone paying more for the full return. That would only occur if the train was full. In practice that does not seem to happen. Last time we used the R&ER to get from Ravenglass to Dalegarth we were the only ones in the carriage on the last train of the day up the valley (hopefully it was better loaded on the return run), on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite there were two of us in a six-seat compartment, from Alton to Alresford there were a number of vacant seats, etc. This implies our journeys were a gain in revenue to the railways involved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to Swanage they do serve a useful public transport purpose so I can't see them going wholly to experiences as they'd lose that revenue, but they do typically operate 5-car trains so could easily dedicate a couple of coaches to "experience" passengers, perhaps First Class ones as they're normally Standard only?

 

[John Luxton]

There are only so many cream tea and a ride packages (or similar) a person can eat, even when on holiday.

Agree! Last year I booked a Pullman Pamper Hamper on the Welsh Highland. I felt as I needed to make some fiscal contribution to the trip being a member on a freebie.

However, after having a full breakfast at my hotel I am confronted by something much larger than expected, which included the cream tea.

Then I had to go back to my hotel for a full dinner! I generally don't eat during the day except a small snack. I am sure I am lot alone!

 

[chrisp37]

I spoke to a volunteer at the Swanage Railway in May this year and understand the Wareham - Swanage service is set to start next year? DMU to Norden and then steam from Norden to Swanage, I understand.

 

[James H]

The latest Swanage Railway mailing underlines their commitment to see through the trial services that were backed by public money, but then delayed by the work on the DMUs and then COVID.

 

[chrisp37]

I really hope it's a success. I love the idea of being able to go all the way from London to Swanage by rail. We holiday in Swanage a fair bit and don't drive so usually get the train to Bournemouth and then the Purbeck Breezer 50 onwards to Swanage. But it would be great to do the whole journey by rail.

And on the topic of the Ffestiniog, we used it to get from Llandudno to Porthmadog (changing over from the Conwy Valley line at BF of course) on Tuesday 13 September (week before last) and it all worked out really well. We caught the 10.20 from Llandudno which arrived at BF at around 11.35 and had booked the 12.25 FR service to Porthmadog (you have to ring up if you want to book one way only). It all worked out really well and the train did stop to pick up passengers at request stops along the way. It also stopped right outside a holiday cottage to pick up a couple of passengers where there didn't even appear to be a station.

When I told the lady in the ticket office at Llandudno that we were travelling onwards to Porthmadog she said that TfW sold a "through ticket" that was cheaper, but I had already paid the FR at this point and didn't really want to know how much I could have saved!

 

[paul1609]

Events & Experiences - Swanage Railway

Our beautifully restored trains running through the heart of Purbeck make the ideal way to access the huge variety of local events. Whether this is your first time to the area, or coming to visit again, they offer an enhanced day out for all ages and tast

www.swanagerailway.co.uk

 

[The Conductor]

I write as an FR member. I am extremely disappointed with the FR and WHR's dramatic reduction in services and, more to the point, the drastic reduction in journey opportunities provided. I am well aware, as a member of two other hereritge lines, of the cost and other pressures that the sector is under and the need for good housekeeping, but the scale of the cutbacks in the FR and WHR's offering goes well beyond what has been imposed elsewhere. I feel especially sorry for Blaenau; the return of the railway was a key factor in the town's regeneration and the consequent loss of trade must be a great loss. The return of the WHR was also, in part, about offering an environmentally-friendly alternative to car travel, and the sparse service now offered gives no real chance of that.

 

[30907]

The return of the WHR was also, in part, about offering an environmentally-friendly alternative to car travel, and the sparse service now offered gives no real chance of that.

Indeed. I am on holiday on Anglesey at the moment, and I thought about a WHR trip (my wife has never done it, and I have only been southbound).

But - Monday and Friday, no trains (fair enough, it's low season); Tuesday and Thursday, one return trip from each end to Beddgelert (at least they connect!); Wednesday, one full line trip from Porthmadog, none from Caernarfon.
So it will have to wait

At least the basic offpeak service of 2tpd meant you could do the whole trip from either end.
(And last weekend was a special event with apparently no trains over much of the system - just my luck!)

 

[Maybach]

IIRC, the FR changed its whole business model post-COVID to move to a more volunteer-based operation. It was (and might still be) one of the biggest employers in the district but had to let quite a lot of paid staff go after the pandemic.

 

[John Luxton]

I write as an FR member. I am extremely disappointed with the FR and WHR's dramatic reduction in services and, more to the point, the drastic reduction in journey opportunities provided. I am well aware, as a member of two other hereritge lines, of the cost and other pressures that the sector is under and the need for good housekeeping, but the scale of the cutbacks in the FR and WHR's offering goes well beyond what has been imposed elsewhere. I feel especially sorry for Blaenau; the return of the railway was a key factor in the town's regeneration and the consequent loss of trade must be a great loss. The return of the WHR was also, in part, about offering an environmentally-friendly alternative to car travel, and the sparse service now offered gives no real chance of that.

100% Agree as a life member of both FR and WHR. I normally stay in the area for the Bygones / Victorian weekend for past decade at Portmeirion. I made a token visit for the Friday and then headed to Llangollen for the Saturday and Sunday (Railcar Gala). The Llangollen Line has had its problems recently but at least they went back to normal services ASAP rather than the FWHR and I felt I would rather support them. Not only did FWHR lose out but also Portmeirion where I normally stay. I have the WHR100 Part 2 weekend booked for 2023, but may review this unless normality returns.

 

[nanstallon]

100% Agree as a life member of both FR and WHR. I normally stay in the area for the Bygones / Victorian weekend for past decade at Portmeirion. I made a token visit for the Friday and then headed to Llangollen for the Saturday and Sunday (Railcar Gala). The Llangollen Line has had its problems recently but at least they went back to normal services ASAP rather than the FWHR and I felt I would rather support them. Not only did FWHR lose out but also Portmeirion where I normally stay. I have the WHR100 Part 2 weekend booked for 2023, but may review this unless normality returns.

I understand how you feel about the degeneration into a theme park. But if the management feel this is how to get more money, I suppose that we can't do much about it.

My preference is for the nearby Talyllyn Railway. It seems to have preserved its original character, and has not gone down the theme park track.

 

[John Luxton]

I understand how you feel about the degeneration into a theme park. But if the management feel this is how to get more money, I suppose that we can't do much about it.

My preference is for the nearby Talyllyn Railway. It seems to have preserved its original character, and has not gone down the theme park track.

If the TR can operate normally there really is no excuse for the FWHR.

There is of course something we can do about it and that is not visit as much as we did. That is my strategy and I dare say quite a few others. Okay us members get free or discounted travel - but most of us usually spent well in the shops and on refreshments.

There appears to be quite few people unhappy with what is going on and we must keep making our views known and our visits less. The message will get across.

What really disappoints me before this change in direction were plans being discussed to remodel Blaenau Ffestiniog Station to allow for cross platform interchange when the FR was clearly looking to improve facilitites at Blaenau and recognised its importance as a connecting station with TfW.

I see from the announced Winter services through to Christmas the theme park style continues. Okay that is the way to do it for Santa Trains and always has but not the rest of the season.

Unless things improve next season I probably won't visit other than for "WHR 100 Part 2 Gala" and that might be in the balance.

 

[DarloRich]

I suppose that we can't do much about it.

you can, like many posters here, throw your toys out of the pram about changes and rant on about "theme parks".

I hope to be in North Wales for a break next year and cant wait to travel on this railway again. Pre booking isn't a problem and travelling on a defined train is hardly a new concept on the big railway! As I keep saying most people visiting preserved railways are going for a day out. They aren't going to poke around sheds and jump on and off at each station and try to cover all of the time timbale. They want to go from A to B, have some chuffing and peeping, have a brew and cake and come back again.

I really wish posters here could grasp that!

 

[John Luxton]

you can, like many posters here, throw your toys out of the pram about changes and rant on about "theme parks".

I hope to be in North Wales for a break next year and cant wait to travel on this railway again. Pre booking isn't a problem and travelling on a defined train is hardly a new concept on the big railway! As I keep saying most people visiting preserved railways are going for a day out. They aren't going to poke around sheds and jump on and off at each station and try to cover all of the time timbale. They want to go from A to B, have some chuffing and peeping, have a brew and cake and come back again.

I really wish posters here could grasp that!

Apart from rail tours I have never booked in advance for a defined train on the big railway. I don't like being tied down its an anytime ticket which I may buy in advance or at a booking office on the day.

What you fail to realise is that many people want to make decisions on the day - weather being a big factor. The end of last October I booked a trip from Caernarfon to Porthmadog at the end of the season about 10 days in advance to make sure I could get in the Pullman as they were still spacing people out.

Day of trip arrives blowing a gale and driving rain. Took over 2 hrs to get to Caernarfon. Arrived early shortly after parking phone goes train cancelled due to flooding. Now in normal circumstances I just would not have ventured out in that sort of weather. Yes Okay I could have just not gone as the trip it didn't cost me anything - but I had booked and paid for a refreshment hamper thus there was some incentive to go. I ended up picking up the contents and driving home.

I can't understand why you are so defensive of this manner of restrictive operation. I suspect you may have connections with either FWHR or another railway that still operates a Covid inspired timetable.

Stop knocking those who just want a normal day out experience just as it used to be. There is no reason why it can't be so as other railways are 100% normal again. Talyllyn has been normal all year - though those that want can still book a compartment from Tywyn. From my observations a few weeks ago. I only saw on reserved compartment. Everyone else was turn up and go.