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Looking at the Elizabeth line time table I would hazard a guess that the 5:04 from Shenfield will become the 5:58 from Paddington going westbound come may 2023. The arrival time is just too convenient and appears to indicate some Shenfield services will go to reading even if they are not consistent.
It’s the 0615 back to Shenfield I think. You can track the service through its 3xxx headcodes in and out of Westbourne Park on RTT. Nothing from the GEML is going out to the GWML as far as Reading (or vice versa).
Not to mention the 0558 leaves from Paddington High Level so would need some teleportation!
From May 23 it’s essentially a complete rewrite so I’d say it’s just coincidence
I assume that's including a generous allowance for delays at the junction.
Is the 1 minute dwell time going to persist into the full timetable, or is that just a rounding error because the written timetable isn't sufficiently granular?
The question for those wanting to catch the first service is: Which tunnel portal do you want to be on the first train through, East or West?
With the way that the timetable works for the Sunday, the first ever public train from Stratford through the core via Whitechapel is the 0729 off Shenfield (leaving Stratford at 0746) which arrives into Paddington for 0805, However the first service through the Western portals is the 0729 off Abbey Wood which leaves Paddington for Heathrow at 0802. This means that the two first 'through running' services will be directly behind one another resulting in it being an impossibility to be on the first train through both core tunnel portals.
I gather you're talking about Liverpool St High Level? The trains do go line speed (15mph, 30mph, 40mph, 50mph, 60mph, 70mph and back to 40mph into Stratford). Driven manually.
I gather you're talking about Liverpool St High Level? The trains do go line speed (15mph, 30mph, 40mph, 50mph, 60mph, 70mph and back to 40mph into Stratford). Driven manually.
Yes what I meant was that trains leaving Whitechapel won't have restrictions to linespeed as they do leaving LST so 6 minutes seems very excessive if humans only get 7 mins to drive from further away at a lower speed.
Also a manually driven train will never be able to maintain linespeed as accurately as one in auto.
I have the following journey times.
Tottenham Court Road: EL to Central (via Northern line) 4'22
Bond Street: EL to Central 3'03
Bond Street: EL to Jubilee 3'52
I'm not sure how the Bond Street interchanges could be improved, the passage comes out right in the thick of the station, with a direct passage to the Central, and a fairly direct connection to the Jubilee escalators.
As always at Bond Street you have to be careful not to fall into the trap of the Northern passageway to the Jubilee line. From what I can make out, the signed route is via the concourse and the direct jubilee escalators.
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I was there too this morning. Arrived on the first wb Jubilee and took maybe 3 minutes to get to the EL, all straightforward. The Hanover Square ticket hall is missing signage pointing to Oxford Circus. You could guess that Oxford Street is the way, and it's not far wrong, though I think straight on past Hanover Square itself is the shortest. The biggest gotcha is coming from the Central line following signs. There's a right turn but it's easy to miss that you then need to turn right again almost immediately. That could become a bottleneck I think.
Regarding the Oxford Circus walk, this is not bad, but it's longer than expected. It is shorter than the walk from Oxford Circus to TCR, but not as much of an improvement as expected.
OC (Victoria Line NB) to TCR Western ticket hall: 8'58
OC (Victoria Line NB) to BDS Eastern ticket hall: 6'32
OC Oxford Circus
TCR Tottenham Court Road
BDS Bond Street
You've also got to contend with being on the 'wrong/'Eastern side of Oxford Circus itself, there's a lot of pedestrians to contend with! It'll be quicker from TCR to OC I would imagine?
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Had a look today and while yes it's not as nice a connection as TCR-Northern line, it certainly feels less of a distance than the mega Liverpool Street-Northern line connection. The connection was already being well used which was good to see.
The signage however doesn't help it feel a whole. Just signs saying Underground make it feel like there's two separate stations. It would be much better integrated if they signed Central and Jubilee line, and also match the rest of the signage in the central stations. An Underground roundel on the Davies Street entrance would also be nice as it can easily be used as a southern entrance to the Central or Jubilee.
Agreed, the signage is odd that it just refers to Underground at the mezzanine between the two escalators. Further to this, there are no signs to indicate to passengers going down from Western entrance that the left turn is a possible access point to Central/Jubilee. Perhaps they don't want a lot of people doing this?
The question for those wanting to catch the first service is: Which tunnel portal do you want to be on the first train through, East or West?
With the way that the timetable works for the Sunday, the first ever public train from Stratford through the core via Whitechapel is the 0729 off Shenfield (leaving Stratford at 0746) which arrives into Paddington for 0805, However the first service through the Western portals is the 0729 off Abbey Wood which leaves Paddington for Heathrow at 0802. This means that the two first 'through running' services will be directly behind one another resulting in it being an impossibility to be on the first train through both core tunnel portals.
Ah right, I see the confusion now, the 12tph includes services that turn around at Gidea Park. To my knowledge those were supposed to be extra to the 12tph, not part of it. As someone further East than Gidea Park, I think that still makes it a reduction?
There is a short term issue with lack of rolling stock till through running is working properly (e.g. the extended Paddington - Westbourne Park area journey times) and the residual 7car are converted to 9.
One really wonders how on EARTH can it take so long to insert the two remaining vehicles of a set. Time was when it took a Class 08 and about 10 minutes (Modern Railways saw exactly this in action one night at Bounds Green a while ago on an HST when one restaurant car had to be replaced by another, and straight back into service). If the answer is that it was specified to be ludicrously more complicated than before, one has to ask why.
One really wonders how on EARTH can it take so long to insert the two remaining vehicles of a set. Time was when it took a Class 08 and about 10 minutes (Modern Railways saw exactly this in action one night at Bounds Green a while ago on an HST when one restaurant car had to be replaced by another, and straight back into service). If the answer is that it was specified to be ludicrously more complicated than before, one has to ask why.
afail the 7 car units still run a really old version of the control software without anything like ETCS or CBTC that was made just so they could get the 345's out in time while the more complex version was in development so as well as needing the updates need to certify that hardware is functioning correctly
One really wonders how on EARTH can it take so long to insert the two remaining vehicles of a set. Time was when it took a Class 08 and about 10 minutes (Modern Railways saw exactly this in action one night at Bounds Green a while ago on an HST when one restaurant car had to be replaced by another, and straight back into service). If the answer is that it was specified to be ludicrously more complicated than before, one has to ask why.
They are retaining the three 7-car units to operate peak specific workings into platform 14 at Paddington. These workings come to an end from November 6, once almost all services run into the Central Operating Section.
One really wonders how on EARTH can it take so long to insert the two remaining vehicles of a set. Time was when it took a Class 08 and about 10 minutes (Modern Railways saw exactly this in action one night at Bounds Green a while ago on an HST when one restaurant car had to be replaced by another, and straight back into service). If the answer is that it was specified to be ludicrously more complicated than before, one has to ask why.
It’s likely that @345 050 is correct and the software being run is far older on the 7 car units. This makes sense as there is no point maintaining support for these units in the code, and therefore increasing its complexity and the time for updates.
ETCS requires breaking curves, and auto reverse will work off the trains length. Not to mention meshing with platform screen doors. Making this work for 7 car trains is unnecessarily complex, surely it’s better a few units are out of action for a bit than the entire operation delayed?
It’s likely that @345 050 is correct and the software being run is far older on the 7 car units. This makes sense as there is no point maintaining support for these units in the code, and therefore increasing its complexity and the time for updates.
ETCS requires breaking curves, and auto reverse will work off the trains length. Not to mention meshing with platform screen doors. Making this work for 7 car trains is unnecessarily complex, surely it’s better a few units are out of action for a bit than the entire operation delayed?
The 7cars (and the software for them) were a temporary solution due to short platforms at Liverpool Street HL (now sorted) and Paddington HL (soon to be irrelevant) that was meant to have ended in most part 3 years 4months ago and the final handful of units 2 years 10months ago.
As temporary a solution the software has much more limited functionality that didn't need route specific testing on yet to be installed equipment - in contrast to the 9car software that followed (or rather is following) later.
It is also worth pointing out that the 2 extra cars added (4th from each end) each have one motor bogie for which the traction electronics are on the adjacent already in service vehicles (3rd from each end) with a reasonable degree of hard wiring rather than connectors.
The power to weight and regenerative braking capabilities of the 9car units are somewhat better than the 7car requiring a huge degree of extra complexity for ETCS and CBTC train software implementations.
You'll also want to do a decent number of test miles with the new cars which haven't been used of turned their wheels in while to avoid embarrassing failures in critical places.
The time scales for the new units are similar to existing.
q1. do people who are on thames valley route btwn Reading and Paddington approve what TFL did to their service. A lot of stations got refurbished etc. I think you will find that some GWR customers might decide to switch at reading and then just have one train all the way through, but that brings the question who gets on the Elizabeth Line faster, someone who stayed on the GWR train and changed at Paddington or someone who changed at Reading. Through running is great for those in Southeast London as they in some cases could go to Heathrow without having to change. I think that Piccadilly line users in Northfields/South Ealing might just go to Acton town, then go to Ealing Bdway and then get a trun through there. Wheather that is actually efficent idk. As for those on the Eastern section (Liverpool street to Shenfield) I see a lot of people probably changing at Stratford so that they don't have to do the long and ardous change at Liverpool Street.
I think that Piccadilly line users in Northfields/South Ealing might just go to Acton town, then go to Ealing Bdway and then get a trun through there. Wheather that is actually efficent idk.
Northfields is 20min from Heathrow T2,3 by Piccadilly.
Ealing Broadway is 24min from Heathrow T2,3 by Elizabeth, without the 10min District service from Acton Town.
As for those on the Eastern section (Liverpool street to Shenfield) I see a lot of people probably changing at Stratford so that they don't have to do the long and ardous change at Liverpool Street.
I think he was thinking of people coming from further afield (Southend , Colchester, Norwich) who will now change at Stratford instead of Liverpool Strret
I think he was thinking of people coming from further afield (Southend , Colchester, Norwich) who will now change at Stratford instead of Liverpool Strret
I thought today was going to be one more day of final testing, but at Stratford platform 8 was in regular use. Did the last day of testing for through running get cancelled? No longer required?
Anyone know what's going on on Monday 7th? Are we going back to 3 separate services?
Northfields is 20min from Heathrow T2,3 by Piccadilly.
Ealing Broadway is 24min from Heathrow T2,3 by Elizabeth, without the 10min District service from Acton Town.
I mean but you start at the end of the service meaning that it's probably worth it to go to Ealing Broadway as there would be more trains as you would have trains from Reading coming as well.
I thought today was going to be one more day of final testing, but at Stratford platform 8 was in regular use. Did the last day of testing for through running get cancelled? No longer required?
Anyone know what's going on on Monday 7th? Are we going back to 3 separate services?
True for seating reasons, but it will be far less convenient in terms of time. The time taken to travel on train between Stratford - Liverpool St is pretty minimal via the "traditional" high level route or via Whitechapel; ultimately it might depend on your end destination and whether people want that 5+ minute walk.
If you want Central London, you may well change at Stratford for an EL connection. But if you actually want the Liverpool St / City area or a connection to the H&C lines and certain London Overground services, you might as well continue. So you might see all sorts of changes in passenger behaviour at Stratford post 6th November:
People staying on the Elizabeth line (no longer changing to Central line into London)
People getting off the Elizabeth line (to change for a GA service to the mainline station/other connections)
Central line generally being quieter
Reduced passengers using the Elizabeth line entrance at Liverpool St.
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