Examples of crew “looking down” on other crew

[pompeyfan]

I know many people would never admit to it that they were guilty but I’m after anecdotes and stories of crew from one TOC or depot being snobby about another.

At my old TOC there was definitely this air of superiority that metro drivers were scruffy and never turned up in uniform, and that the guards never ever came out a middle cab.

There was also animosity towards GTR Southern (not the crews fault I guess) as they would constantly be given priority at junctions even if they were 10 - 20 minutes late!

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

I was on a Northern service, with one of their Class 331 units, and there was a TPE guard stood by the doors.
The Northern conductor went to operate the doors from the panel that the TPE guard was stood in front of, after asking him to move with the words:

"You should know better! But then again, you are TransPennine"

 

[Need2]

I don’t know whether it is the same thing but I know there was a ridiculous ‘seating/table’ arrangement policy at Victoria mess room whereby certain tocs and grades had to sit a certain tables.
Policed, I believe, by the resident Southern staff.

 

[387star]

Southern crew at Barnham have been known to blank Thameslink crew who commute from there probably due to the DOO dispute.
I once overheard some OBS saying new Drivers look down on them like they own the place and barely acknowledge them...

 

[Drogba11CFC]

There's the line in Dave Goulder's Eight Freight Blues:

"He's drawn a line across the cab for each of us to stand,
Since he found I'd joined the NUR while he was an ASLEF man."

 

[Stigy]

I know many people would never admit to it that they were guilty but I’m after anecdotes and stories of crew from one TOC or depot being snobby about another.

At my old TOC there was definitely this air of superiority that metro drivers were scruffy and never turned up in uniform, and that the guards never ever came out a middle cab.

There was also animosity towards GTR Southern (not the crews fault I guess) as they would constantly be given priority at junctions even if they were 10 - 20 minutes late!

Funny you should mention priority at junctions, it’s the same with us at GWR towards Portsmouth….we’re like second class citizens with almost anything, even if they’re late, the signallers chose to hold us at junctions. Maybe it’s something to do with other trains being London bound? Or coming from London? It’s similar at Southampton though, often put behind a Southern stopper only to catch up with it because he stops and we don’t

 

[ExRes]

I don’t know whether it is the same thing but I know there was a ridiculous ‘seating/table’ arrangement policy at Victoria mess room whereby certain tocs and grades had to sit a certain tables.
Policed, I believe, by the resident Southern staff.

I hope it does survive today, it was truly the most laughable and juvenile situation I ever came across, whenever I passed through for a PNB I always tried to take as much space as possible on a GatEx possession/table with diagram prominently displayed, that always seemed to produce the most scowls and whispering, that said lack of politeness in messes seemed very much to be a requirement

 

[LowLevel]

I honestly don't think I've experienced it anywhere. We've always used the Northern traincrew depot at Lime St and when we hardly went in there because we had barely any breaks it could go a bit quiet if you walked in, but since we've started using it regularly greetings and conversation are usually exchanged

 

[43066]

I honestly don't think I've experienced it anywhere. We've always used the Northern traincrew depot at Lime St and when we hardly went in there because we had barely any breaks it could go a bit quiet if you walked in, but since we've started using it regularly greetings and conversation are usually exchanged

That’s because you’re at the “top of the tree”.

Your depot looks down on the one a few miles west. Both depots look down on the one located 150ish clicks south .

 

[O L Leigh]

I’ve only ever experienced it once when I'd cadged a lift with a GE driver down to Ilford on a Desiro, which WA driver like myself didn't sign. He walked away from the train and left me stuck on the train with no idea how to get into the cab and down the ladder. When I banged on the window to call him back, he gave me an earful of abuse.

Other than that, I've never seen anything worse than a bit of good-natured inter TOC or inter depot banter. I'm frequently into other TOC's messrooms at various points on the network and find that a friendly, breezy attitude is enough to thaw out any animosity. I'd been warned about certain messrooms, but I think the issue might be that the people giving me the warnings don't particularly like mixing anyway and so perhaps shouldn't be surprised that they don't get a warm friendly welcome. There's only one, maybe two, locations where I don't feel especially welcome, but observing the behaviour of the local TOC staff I think the issue is not that they don't talk to me and my colleagues but rather that they don't talk to anyone at all, even each other.

 

[ComUtoR]

♥♥Metro4Life♥♥

You Mainline might drive faster and have prettier trains but I'm sure us Metro hardcore RealDrivers™ would drink you under the table. Let's go to the *pub and duke it out.


*not some mainline winebar

 

[LowLevel]

That’s because you’re at the “top of the tree”.

Your depot looks down on the one a few miles west. Both depots look down on the one located 150ish clicks south .

The drivers have had numerous dust ups over work over the years (don't get me started on "you've started doing our local work but heaven forbid we work an Intercity train to London!" from a few years ago) but the guards are pretty serene I feel.

I always remind people when they start amping on about miserable local lot/miserable mainline that 1) my staff number starts with MML and 2) I sign more route miles with my 2 car thunder boxes than any of the Intercity depots so there, I work on the Great Eastern, East Coast, Midland and West Coast mainlines so who is mainline now!?

Everyone knows the premier "South End" depot is Kettering anyway....

 

[Scott1]

The only time I've come across this kind of nonsense is agency/contractor staff being treated shabbily by in house employees. As an example I witnessed a catering employee being spoken down to by a gaurd. I don't think they quite expected the earful they received from me, but needless belittling isn't something I'll put up with, regardless of if your on a 'proper' contract or not.

Other than that pleanty of banter, but nothing else.

 

[175001]

Northern, Leeds messroom top table...

You had to be a mate with a driver who was on his rest day to sit on that. And that chair would remain empty till he was back on duty.

I sat on it to wind them up.

Its now gone post refurb..

 

[scotraildriver]

I hope it does survive today, it was truly the most laughable and juvenile situation I ever came across, whenever I passed through for a PNB I always tried to take as much space as possible on a GatEx possession/table with diagram prominently displayed, that always seemed to produce the most scowls and whispering, that said lack of politeness in messes seemed very much to be a requirement

Glasgow Central is like that. As a "foreign" driver I once had the misfortune to have an unscheduled break in there. I was glared at, scowled at and eventually told in no uncertain terms that I was sitting "Jim's" seat. Then quizzed about which depot I belonged to. Bunch of weirdos.

 

[Ken H]

Isnt there a culture of drivers treating guards as 2nd class citizens???

 

[Bantamzen]

I was on a Northern service, with one of their Class 331 units, and there was a TPE guard stood by the doors.
The Northern conductor went to operate the doors from the panel that the TPE guard was stood in front of, after asking him to move with the words:

"You should know better! But then again, you are TransPennine"

That's both funny and hurtful. The poor TPE guard was probably lost and confused. No wonder they struggle to run trains these days....

 

[Soundwave]

Would something like THIS count? With TOC social media teams being looked down on?

How would train managers react if passenger were told by social media agents to complain to the guard for letting too many on if a train is overcrowded?

So much for a the railway being a "family"

 

[LowLevel]

Would something like THIS count? With TOC social media teams being looked down on?

How would train managers react if passenger were told by social media agents to complain to the guard for letting too many on if a train is overcrowded?

So much for a the railway being a "family"

What else can they do? If the train is full they're unlikely to be able to make representation to the traincrew in person so customer service channels and social media are the best way to make a complaint. Twitter desk controllers are people too, but they do have a screen between them and the angry customer.

It's not looking down on anyone, it's giving people an official channel to address their grievance at poor service.

 

[Seejwalker]

Funny you should mention priority at junctions, it’s the same with us at GWR towards Portsmouth….we’re like second class citizens with almost anything, even if they’re late, the signallers chose to hold us at junctions. Maybe it’s something to do with other trains being London bound? Or coming from London? It’s similar at Southampton though, often put behind a Southern stopper only to catch up with it because he stops and we don’t

I can’t speak for your route, but yeah, it’s typically due to stopping patterns, turn around time at destination and some trains just cost more per minute of delay.

 

[pompeyfan]

I don’t know whether it is the same thing but I know there was a ridiculous ‘seating/table’ arrangement policy at Victoria mess room whereby certain tocs and grades had to sit a certain tables.
Policed, I believe, by the resident Southern staff.

There is a similar thing at Waterloo regarding top table seniority, and guards only allowed into the drivers mess room if invited!

Funny you should mention priority at junctions, it’s the same with us at GWR towards Portsmouth….we’re like second class citizens with almost anything, even if they’re late, the signallers chose to hold us at junctions. Maybe it’s something to do with other trains being London bound? Or coming from London? It’s similar at Southampton though, often put behind a Southern stopper only to catch up with it because he stops and we don’t

There are some questionable regulating decisions but I know that signallers have a lot to look after, and it is very rare that they delay trains for the fun of it. That said, when 10+ minutes is put into a train to wait for a slightly faster bit late running train, it’s annoying!

♥♥Metro4Life♥♥

You Mainline might drive faster and have prettier trains but I'm sure us Metro hardcore RealDrivers™ would drink you under the table. Let's go to the *pub and duke it out.


*not some mainline winebar

That’s because the surburban crews have the resource managers round their fingers, which enables them more time in the boozer, whilst the outer depots pick up your stopping working!!

Northam drivers used to have a reputation for being really heavy on the brakes because of the amount of ECS work they do!

 

[berwicksfinest]

Here at Peterborough, our messroom is next door to our brothers at Thameslink. So the good natured bunch we are well call them

Trolley bus drivers

They in turn call us

Rusty coupling jockeys

 

[D365]

Here at Peterborough, our messroom is next door to our brothers at Thameslink. So the good natured bunch we are well call them

Trolley bus drivers

They in turn call us

Rusty coupling jockeys

Given the close-knit nature of rail, I'd be surprised if the majority of 'jibes' between operators is any less than just friendly.

 

[ExRes]

So much for a the railway being a "family"

Oh the railway is a family, but you must know the old quote " you can choose your friends but you sho' can't choose your family"

 

[Bogallan]

Never experienced it myself, mixing as I do with Abellio Overground and Avanti Staff at Euston or Thameslink and EMR when I am at Bedford Midland, Evrybody I meet is friendly and will speak. Ha! Thinking back to my Policing Days, I was in Thames Valley Police and laterally BTP, we all had names for the different forces, TVP was “Chad Valley Police”, Met Police were “The Metrocomicals”, BTP was “Be there perhaps”, City Police were “The Swiss Guard” whilst any “Rural” forces were “The Turnip Constabulary”. Happy days!

 

[Falcon1200]

Funny you should mention priority at junctions, it’s the same with us at GWR towards Portsmouth….we’re like second class citizens with almost anything, even if they’re late

There are, or at least should be, Regulating Instructions to guide the Signallers when trains are running out of course (although when that happens, whoever ends up being delayed will not be happy!)

 

[gner43008]

Yes when working for TW Metro, when your up front driving/assessing or colleagues simply riding in the front seats.
You quickly begin to notice that mainline drivers for Northern, Grand Central, Freight FOCs. Some of them will not wave back at you, its really a 50/50 chance if they even acknowledge you.

But the most concerning thing is some of the Network Rail Track workers/pway staff sometimes don't even acknowledge warning horns from Metro Services, when working on or near the line.
I like to treat all my railway brothers and sisters with the same respect, same team at the end of the day railway family.

 

[irish_rail]

Reading messroom always makes me laugh. If you sit at a certain table near to the TV, you make a big mistake. Thats the table of those legendary men who sign all the way to Gatwick. A few funny looks and murmuring "who is this newbie daring to sit at a senior table?" Imagine their surprise when I tell them I've driven a HST up from Plymouth!

 

[Dai Corner]

Reading messroom always makes me laugh. If you sit at a certain table near to the TV, you make a big mistake. Thats the table of those legendary men who sign all the way to Gatwick. A few funny looks and murmuring "who is this newbie daring to sit at a senior table?" Imagine their surprise when I tell them I've driven a HST up from Plymouth!

Well that would be Hellfire! These days

 

[D365]

But the most concerning thing is some of the Network Rail Track workers/pway staff sometimes don't even acknowledge warning horns from Metro Services, when working on or near the line.
I like to treat all my railway brothers and sisters with the same respect, same team at the end of the day railway family.

The best thing to come out of this thread.

If I'm wearing orange, I raise my arm. That's the #2 rule I've learned (supervisor's instructions are #1).