November strike action on National Rail suspended - impact on next week's service

[zwk500]

I thought recent ticket disputes have mentioned a cut off of 22:00 previous night as the time applicable to if a service is cancelled or not.

So surely there are a few more hours before anything is finalised

No, the publication run has to go before 22:00 so that the service is advertised in NRE before that cutoff time. The file is exported from the planning system (which can take some time), and then uploaded into all the other systems, many of which do not talk to each other at all. And this assumes there's no problem exporting the file first time around.

Also, you try telling a group of (not very happy) train planners that they need to stay until 22:00 on a friday evening doing data entry.

I think that is something us outside the industry don't understand. Are they just putting back the original rota's that would have happened on Monday (if there wasn't a strike) but they can't just "revert" to standard or operationally you will get choas?

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I expect Monday will be a modified form because control can only change so many schedules whilst managing everything else.

Some areas of the UK will be getting no service (Lincolnshire) but the signal boxes will be manned (now we have no strike) and train crews will be ready to run the service (as they were not in dispute) - Is the problem that the signal boxes won't be manned as they haven't decided who will man them?

I really don't know on this one, sorry!

 

[baz962]

Because the rolling stock diagrams tonight have been amended to finish with the trains in place for the strike service tomorrow, and the drivers diagrams for tomorrow (and next week) have all been amended for the strike timetable tomorrow (And next week). Getting hold of about 9,000 drivers now to tell them to revert to their previous rostered work is a stretch too far!

Also, for some operators, nobody will have been called into to work overtime / Rest Days tomorrow as they were not needed (and wouldn’t do it if they were asked, so no pint asking) which would automatically scupper the plan.

Of course it isn't just about trying to get hold of the staff. Some will now of been rostered different hours and whatever anyone thinks about strikes , you can't just keep changing staff hours. The agreed shift times are now set for tomorrow and at most tocs for Monday too .

 

[Bald Rick]

That way they cause maximum disruption but their members don't lose any pay.

Either that, or it took the RMT reps much longer to reach the conclusion that TSSA and Unite did 3 days ago. Which, if true, must call into question their capabilities as reps.

 

[danielcanning]

Absolutely ridiculous that train services can’t run as normal tomorrow, the drivers are now available for work, the trains themselves aren’t going anywhere, I don’t see why a Saturday service isn’t possible… (and before someone says it is impossible, nothing is if enough effort is made)

 

[Jamiescott1]

Hopefully delay repay will still apply to season ticket holders on what was the strike days

 

[Bald Rick]

the drivers are now available for work,

the drivers weren’t striking…

 

[gazzaa2]

And it's the TOC's who'll get it in the neck off irate passengers wanting to know why the trains aren't running over the next few days.

 

[HullRailMan]

So call it off late so staff get paid but won’t really be doing any work as it’s too late to reinstate services…..but it was never about wanting to disrupt the public! I’m sure those who have had plans ruined for nothing will be thrilled.

 

[zwk500]

Absolutely ridiculous that train services can’t run as normal tomorrow, the drivers are now available for work, the trains themselves aren’t going anywhere, I don’t see why a Saturday service isn’t possible… (and before someone says it is impossible, nothing is if enough effort is made)

I'd love to see your reaction if your boss told you late on a friday afternoon you'd be staying late into the night processing all the changes. Especially if you'd been coming in for the last few weekends to help out on other projects.

 

[Iskra]

And it's the TOC's who'll get it in the neck off irate passengers wanting to know why the trains aren't running over the next few days.

That's why this is a union masterstroke, plus the staff not losing out on pay too.

 

[theking]

RMT call off the strikes and they're still being slagged off on here, all they've got is a promise of more negotiations so they didn't even have to cancel the strike action if they didn't want to.

 

[danielcanning]

I'd love to see your reaction if your boss told you late on a friday afternoon you'd be staying late into the night processing all the changes. Especially if you'd been coming in for the last few weekends to help out on other projects.

I’d say tough, there is literally no reason whatsoever now that a full Saturday service can’t run tomorrow, pay them extra if you have to, just get those services moving…

 

[Iskra]

RMT call off the strikes and they're still being slagged off on here, all they've got is a promise of more negotiations so they didn't even have to cancel the strike action if they didn't want to.

Because they are disrupting passengers. You can't then expect support from those same passengers (but they - hilariously - do).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Also, for some operators, nobody will have been called into to work overtime / Rest Days tomorrow as they were not needed (and wouldn’t do it if they were asked, so no pint asking) which would automatically scupper the plan.

And this seriously impacts signal boxes which are very reliant on rest day work so many of the boxes will actually remain shut as the rostered turn will actually be a vacancy.

 

[HullRailMan]

RMT call off the strikes and they're still being slagged off on here, all they've got is a promise of more negotiations so they didn't even have to cancel the strike action if they didn't want to.

Because they’ve called off the strike but knowing that the disruption continues….as if you’re trying to suggest the RMT are the good guys here.

 

[Bald Rick]

RMT call off the strikes and they're still being slagged off on here, all they've got is a promise of more negotiations so they didn't even have to cancel the strike action if they didn't want to.

They’ve been in the negotiations for the last two weeks, and the offer proposed to them has not changed in that time. Reach your own conclusion as to why they have decided 15 hours before the strike starts to call it off.

 

[zwk500]

I’d say tough, there is literally no reason whatsoever now that a full Saturday service can’t run tomorrow, pay them extra if you have to, just get those services moving…

I didn't ask what you'd say to the planners, I asked how you would react if told to stay late. I suspect you'd tell your boss to do one and that you'd see him down the pub.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’d say tough, there is literally no reason whatsoever now that a full Saturday service can’t run tomorrow, pay them extra if you have to, just get those services moving…

There’s lots of reasons that I and others have explained. You may not like them, or perhaps even understand them, but that’s the truth.

 

[pompeyfan]

Absolutely ridiculous that train services can’t run as normal tomorrow, the drivers are now available for work, the trains themselves aren’t going anywhere, I don’t see why a Saturday service isn’t possible… (and before someone says it is impossible, nothing is if enough effort is made)

This late in the day literally 000s of trains would have to be manually diagramed, entered into the systems, crewed. We’re talking about an hour per train to manually do it all as well. There is no flick of a switch.

I’m also hearing of blanket emergency speed restrictions on Sunday and Tuesday as it’s unlikely the MPVs will be able to treat the lines in time and the weather forecast is looking grotty.

 

[gazzaa2]

That's why this is a union masterstroke, plus the staff not losing out on pay too.

I think RMT were biting off more than they could chew with staff losing 4 days pay over the next week.

Thus you wonder if there is genuine progress or it's just a swindle from RMT to make sure staff still get paid but the trains aren't running anyway. They'll probably pull the same tactic again in a few weeks.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I’d say tough, there is literally no reason whatsoever now that a full Saturday service can’t run tomorrow, pay them extra if you have to, just get those services moving…

Yes there is a reason, nobody will have been booked to work overtime and at this late stage would probably decline it.

As the Avanti problems has shown the railway is not currently resourced to run a full service without relying on overtime. How do you propose this is dealt with overnight to run a full service tomorrow? Logistically it is just not possible.

 

[danielcanning]

There’s lots of reasons that I and others have explained. You may not like them, or perhaps even understand them, but that’s the truth.

Reasons that could, if push came to shove, be overcome…

 

[Iskra]

I think RMT were biting off more than they could chew with staff losing 4 days pay over the next week.

Thus you wonder if there is genuine progress or it's just a swindle from RMT to make sure staff still get paid but the trains aren't running anyway. They'll probably pull the same tactic again in a few weeks.

Agreed.

 

[Failed Unit]

And this seriously impacts signal boxes which are very reliant on rest day work so many of the boxes will actually remain shut as the rostered turn will actually be a vacancy.

I can understand this now, and also thanks to @zwk500 . If I take a line with 3 boxes between a and b and 1/3 was on rest day working, you are not going to get it staffed so no service. I hadn't thought that a lot of rest day working will be needed.

Hopefully Wednesday can be normal service as it is very frustrating for the area with no service, when there is no longer a dispute.

 

[Darandio]

Reasons that could, if push came to shove, be overcome…

Not in less than 12 hours they can't. Throw as much resource and money at it as you want and it's still impossible.

 

[Bald Rick]

Reasons that could, if push came to shove, be overcome…

Can you tell us how, please? With a bit of detail about how you would re-roster 9000 drivers for tomorrow, get hold of several thousand people to work overtime / rest days who werent needed 3 hours ago but are needed to start work in about 12 hours time, and put in place 20,000 train schedules (including many affected by engineering work)

 

[gazzaa2]

RMT call off the strikes and they're still being slagged off on here, all they've got is a promise of more negotiations so they didn't even have to cancel the strike action if they didn't want to.

Operationally it's pointless to call off train strikes at the last minute. They just wanted to stop their members losing pay.

 

[Bald Rick]

when there is no longer a dispute.

There is still a dispute. Just no RMT strikes for at least the next 4 weeks.

 

[Huntergreed]

Operationally it's pointless to call off train strikes at the last minute. They just wanted to stop their members losing pay.

Agreed, this isn’t calling off the action, it’s still performing it whilst receiving full pay and minimising consequences for doing so, it ought to be banned.

 

[yorksrob]

I think RMT were biting off more than they could chew with staff losing 4 days pay over the next week.

Thus you wonder if there is genuine progress or it's just a swindle from RMT to make sure staff still get paid but the trains aren't running anyway. They'll probably pull the same tactic again in a few weeks.

That would be annoying. I'm all for the RMT enjoying a victory lap of a paid day off when most have made other plans anyway, but that would be a pain.

However, as @Bald Rick has said, the other unions also seem to have reached an understanding, so I'm optimistic.