Peterborough to Leicester Line Bridge Bash.

[sharpley]

I assume the Ketton cement freight that runs to St Pancras most weekdays won't be able to run via another route whilst the line is closed. This bridge must be fairly close to the cement works.

 

[2192]

I assume the Ketton cement freight that runs to St Pancras most weekdays won't be able to run via another route whilst the line is closed. This bridge must be fairly close to the cement works.

I assume the cement works is east of the blockage.
Possibly via Peterboro (reverse), Grantham, Nottingham to St Pancras.
or -- does is the connection from the ECML to the Tottenham and Hampstead Jt. line allow north to west movements? Then reverse somewhere around Cricklewood?

 

[38Cto15E]

66701GBRF, I was out on Friday with the camera and a Hams Hall-Felixstowe intermodal was struggling between Syston and Frisby, it lost 18 mins and the barriers were down at Rearsby for about 20 mins.
The rails seemed dry and there was no leaf fall so maybe the loco was having a bad time.
I would think that NR would want to get the line open ASAP, even if it means closing the road underneath.

 

[66701GBRF]

I would think that NR would want to get the line open ASAP, even if it means closing the road underneath.

Of course they would want to reopen the line ASAP. Is that in doubt?

66701GBRF, I was out on Friday with the camera and a Hams Hall-Felixstowe intermodal was struggling between Syston and Frisby, it lost 18 mins and the barriers were down at Rearsby for about 20 mins.
The rails seemed dry and there was no leaf fall so maybe the loco was having a bad time.

It was 4L13 and it had a loco fault. But has no relevance to the route or this incident.

 

[D365]

Any idea what the impact to train services will be next week? A friend was planning to do LEI-PBO on Friday...

 

[zwk500]

Any idea what the impact to train services will be next week? A friend was planning to do LEI-PBO on Friday...

Probably buses, looking at the state of the bridge.

 

[sharpley]

From Network Rail East Midlands twitter, initial repair on the bridge to take about 2 weeks.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailEM/status/1589277421714300929?t=J7rTP9YVkydr0F-dKJIMUQ&s=19

We're sorry to say that engineers working on the bridge at Ketton which was damaged by the lorry yesterday say the initial repair is likely to take about two weeks.

 

[zwk500]

From Network Rail East Midlands twitter, initial repair on the bridge to take about 2 weeks.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailEM/status/1589277421714300929?t=J7rTP9YVkydr0F-dKJIMUQ&s=19

Important to that is the next tweet as well: https://twitter.com/NetworkRailEM/status/1589277425476964352?s=20&t=hE92Y58f55B_so-TzlJvWg

Critical parts of the bridge structure have been so badly damaged that a significant part of it needs to be replaced.

 

[sharpley]

Bit more info from a BBC report. 2 structural beams need to be replaced.

Rail disruption to continue after Rutland bridge strike

Network Rail says "significant damage" has been caused to the railway bridge.

www.bbc.co.uk

Gary Walsh from Network Rail said the disruption was likely to continue.
"I am really sorry that passengers and the community are likely to be affected by this accident for some time.
"The impact has caused significant damage.
"Our engineers have to replace two structural beams as well as then reinstating the track, signals and other railway equipment on top of the bridge," he said.
Stamford Road has also been closed while emergency works are carried out on the bridge.

 

[38Cto15E]

Of course they would want to reopen the line ASAP. Is that in doubt?


It was 4L13 and it had a loco fault. But has no relevance to the route or this incident.

2-0 to you it is then.

 

[Gloster]

I presume that it would be possible to get a train in to the cement works if it arrived at Kenton Signal Box from the Peterborough direction top-and-tailed. That is if there is enough clearance before the possession protection and it is still allowed.

 

[Sonik]

All of our Birch Coppice and Hams Hall intermodal services run that way as does the return portion of Trafford Park service (except when all services are diverted via London during engineering work 2 out of 8 weeks). There is lots of aggregates that run that way too.

This week has been “London week” where services are diverted via WCML/ECML/GEML due to engineering work between Peterborough and Stowmarket which is probably why it doesn’t look like much stuff runs that way.

Ah OK, interesting, thanks for the heads up.

It's amazing how many trains get moved around, given how busy things get in certain areas.

 

[66701GBRF]

2-0 to you it is then.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Legolash2o]

If a new bridge is required, what are the chances they'll increase its height to prevent this again in the future?

Assuming there's room to increase the gradients either side. 100m to increase 1m in height if I remember correctly.

 

[zwk500]

If a new bridge is required, what are the chances they'll increase its height to prevent this again in the future?

Almost nil, unless it can be achieved through a thinner deck. Raising the rail height will almost certainly not be done. The land take for wider embankments, the engineering resource to regrade the track, the materials to actually raise the formations etc all take more than 1 week to organise, let alone going through all the approvals processes. Similarly, the road won't be lowered in emergency work like this.

Assuming there's room to increase the gradients either side. 100m to increase 1m in height if I remember correctly.

1:100 is indeed the recommended maximum gradient.

 

[Sultan]

Who pays for the repairs? Do Network Rail send the bill to the insurance company of the lorry? If so, I presume they just have to accept whatever it is to put both the railway and road back to whatever was there before the strike. And would it include consequential loss (eg cost of replacement buses, loss of potential revenue).

And would the driver of the lorry (temporarily) lose their HGV licence, requiring some form of re-training? Although they would probably have been pretty shaken up by the enormous impact - hope they weren't too badly hurt.

 

[High Dyke]

By some fortune, this week is the regular overnight diversions via Grantham and Nottingham, though that doesn't help daytime freight traffic so easily.

I assume the cement works is east of the blockage.
Possibly via Peterboro (reverse), Grantham, Nottingham to St Pancras.
or -- does is the connection from the ECML to the Tottenham and Hampstead Jt. line allow north to west movements? Then reverse somewhere around Cricklewood?

Correct. The usual diversion (see below) is Ketton - Peterborough [rev] - Grantham - Nottingham and MML.

I presume that it would be possible to get a train in to the cement works if it arrived at Kenton Signal Box from the Peterborough direction top-and-tailed. That is if there is enough clearance before the possession protection and it is still allowed.

I've added a map view of the area. The damaged bridge is at the lower left (Red dot). The access to the cement works is upper right (Yellow dot). Normally traffic into Wards sidings arrives from the Oakham side and reverses into the exchange sidings. It then departs eastwards towards Peterborough.

I'm sure some contingency for T&T workings from Peterborough to Ketton could be planned, if the crossover at Ketton is operational.


Picture shows map of area around Ketton, annotated to show damaged bridge and access to cement works.

 

[Bald Rick]

Who pays for the repairs?

NR will get on and fix it asap

Do Network Rail send the bill to the insurance company of the lorry?

Yes

And would it include consequential loss (eg cost of replacement buses, loss of potential revenue).

That’s a bit more complicated!

 

[edwin_m]

From the linked photos, it seems clear that the structural integrity of this bridge is severely compromised, and a very serious accident would have been highly likely, had a train arrived before traffic could be stopped. Although passenger trains were all cancelled, this falls into the category of something that could have been much more serious had things been slightly different, and I expect RAIB to be involved.

 

[zwk500]

From the linked photos, it seems clear that the structural integrity of this bridge is severely compromised, and a very serious accident would have been highly likely, had a train arrived before traffic could be stopped. Although passenger trains were all cancelled, this falls into the category of something that could have been much more serious had things been slightly different, and I expect RAIB to be involved.

What have the RAIB to investigate? Trains were stopped safely upon report of the bridge bash. Given the deformity to the first beam, the driver was clearly going at quite a lick and it doesn't look like any sign would have helped him. Arguably goalposts out from the bridge wouldn't have stopped a skip at that speed completely.
A row of sharpened stakes at cab height might help reduce the chance of re-occurance though.

 

[edwin_m]

What have the RAIB to investigate? Trains were stopped safely upon report of the bridge bash. Given the deformity to the first beam, the driver was clearly going at quite a lick and it doesn't look like any sign would have helped him. Arguably goalposts out from the bridge wouldn't have stopped a skip at that speed completely.
A row of sharpened stakes at cab height might help reduce the chance of re-occurance though.

Just as I pointed out, if a train had arrived at full speed this could have been catastrophic. That might have happened if one was closely approaching at the time of the collision, or if there was some delay in informing the railway, or due to delay in getting the message to the train driver. Obviously the first and third reasons weren't applicable due to no trains running (or was freight operating?), but the question of how quickly the railway was contactced is important as are the arrangements for passing the critical message on. There is also the question of whether the bridge could have been more resilient given the severe damage suffered - this was probably in the top 1% of bridge strikes for danger to the railway. And, as you say, the question of other mitigations such as goalposts (which might have slowed the lorry or reduced the impact on the bridge itself) or height detectors. Seems to me there's plenty for RAIB to look into here.

Looking at Google maps, it has multiple standard warning signs as well as non-standard large yellow signs, which are however to the driver's right so could have been obscured by an oncoming vehicle. There are also several equipment boxes under and alongside and solar panels on the south side - maybe some sort of impact alarm?

The bridge beams appear to be beneath the rails, so replacement by one where the beams form parapets might create a bit more clearance, although this would be lost again if it was through ballasted.

 

[Falcon1200]

Just as I pointed out, if a train had arrived at full speed this could have been catastrophic.

Seems to me there's plenty for RAIB to look into here.

Both of those things apply to any bridge strike, and not just underbridges but overbridges too; There have been plenty of cases where parapets have been knocked onto the track and struck by trains. But surely it is primarily a road safety issue, what rail procedures would RAIB look into? Ensuring total safety at the thousands of rail bridges cannot be achieved by the rail industry alone, if at all. But given the disparity between the safety standards expected of the rail industry compared to road transport, I don't expect any serious change any time soon.

 

[66701GBRF]

Up line expected to be open for single line working Wednesday *9th. Down road is expected to be open *21st November.

As for RAIB, there is no mention of them attending so I imagine they are not interested in conducting their own investigation.

*subject to change.

 

[Sonik]

. But given the disparity between the safety standards expected of the rail industry compared to road transport, I don't expect any serious change any time soon.

Indeed, I remember Great Heck being described as 'just' an accident.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looking at Google maps, it has multiple standard warning signs as well as non-standard large yellow signs, which are however to the driver's right so could have been obscured by an oncoming vehicle. There are also several equipment boxes under and alongside and solar panels on the south side - maybe some sort of impact alarm?

Some reasonable images of the underside on Streetview, aren’t they.

There are white boxes implying 8 impact sensors, 2 for each main beam. That presumably means it’s a known high risk structure, because AIUI they are not fitted to all bridges. Do the sensors give a remote warning to the controlling signaller?

 

[Ken H]

Indeed, I remember Great Heck being described as 'just' an accident.

They sent Gary Hart to jail for it. It was also (then) the biggest motor vehicle insurance claim. I think the truck driver may be in bother with plod.

 

[SteveM70]

Up line expected to be open for single line working Wednesday *9th. Down road is expected to be open *21st November.

As for RAIB, there is no mention of them attending so I imagine they are not interested in conducting their own investigation.

*subject to change.

Sorry if this is a daft question, but which way is up and which way is down on that line?

 

[66701GBRF]

Not a daft question but no my area. However looking at what's damaged and Google maps I'd say down is towards Peterborough.

 

[Bald Rick]

Some reasonable images of the underside on Streetview, aren’t they.

There are white boxes implying 8 impact sensors, 2 for each main beam. That presumably means it’s a known high risk structure, because AIUI they are not fitted to all bridges. Do the sensors give a remote warning to the controlling signaller?

AIUI there are cameras, what you can see are alignment indicators, with a small bar attached to the underside of the deck, and then the indicators attached to the abutments. (if you look closely, you can see arrows on the indicators for the horizontal and vertical planes). The images can be viewed in control, and if there is any movement this shows clearly by reference to the bars position with the indicators.

This enables a person in control (usually the Route Control Manager) to be able to give the line back to traffic (albeit with a speed restriction) remotely, without the need for someone to attend site, once a report of a bridge bash has been received. This usually saves about half an hour of the line being closed.

This kit is fitted to a few high risk bridges with regular bashing history. Thurlow Park Road at Tulse Hill has similar.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if this is a daft question, but which way is up and which way is down on that line?

Peterborough to Syston East Jn, (via Stamford, Oakham and Melton), is the down line.