MG11 SouthWestern Railway - First offence

[Iamconfused123]

Hi,

I got the MG11 witness statement today and for a bit of context I basically short-fared on the SouthWestern Railway. I used the Trainline app and I am very worried I will get a criminal record for this and would like to avoid this.

Please note I have not been caught before but I am worried that they will look into my account history and see I have done something similar before… any advice on how to address this situation? I unfortunately did not get information from the officer on what happens next all he said to me is “if this is you first offence you are likely to get a slap on the wrist” and then let me go. This is my first offence but again I have a couple short journey tickets on Trainline app again just worried they will look into this? From my understanding I will receive a letter where I have an opportunity to tell them my side of the story.

Has anyone experienced this before and any advice on how to avoid criminal record? I am really worried this will cause me to lose my job…

 

[MCSHF007]

Why did you decide to only pay from Vauxhall when you had actually travelled from Leatherhead? Your post doesn't explain your "reasoning" for this.

You state you have not "been caught before". Have you ever "done this before"?

 

[NSE]

I’m not one of the resident ticket experts on here (they’ll be along shortly). But, you have jumped the fare intentionally. You’ve not travelled one stop further by mistake or something. There are some users on here that will be able to help you out with advice.

 

[Gloster]

I presume from the OP’s original post that s/he has done this before and an examination of his/her Trainline account will reveal this.

I don’t think that their reasoning is of any relevance to the problem, unless the OP was unable to buy a ticket before travelling, which seems unlikely.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT, but I think that the OP will get a letter at some time in the next six months, although two to six weeks seems to be the norm (different companies work at different speeds and I am not sure how long South Western Railway take). They should then get an opportunity to make their apologies, etc.: the experts will be along soon to to give advice on this. It is important that the OP makes sure that if they move house or are away for a period, that their post is dealt with or forwarded promptly: by a Royal Mail Redirection Order if necessary.

What the OP is presumably hoping for is an ‘out of court settlement’, which involves paying a sum to the railway who close the matter without it going to court. Others will advise how best to do this when the time comes. A fine is something imposed by a court.

 

[Iamconfused123]

Why did you decide to only pay from Vauxhall when you had actually travelled from Leatherhead? Your post doesn't explain your "reasoning" for this.

You state you have not "been caught before". Have you ever "done this before"?

To be completely honest I decided to short-fare as it is very expensive for me I am struggling financially. I have payed for short journeys before and have not be caught by ticket inspectors. I without a doubt understand this is wrong but I have definitely learnt my lesson and will not do this again… any help?

I presume from the OP’s original post that s/he has done this before and an examination of his/her Trainline account will reveal this.

I don’t think that the reasoning is of any relevance to the problem, unless the OP was unable to buy a ticket before travelling, which seems unlikely.

Sorry I am not sure what OP means but yes I was able to buy the ticket beforehand however due to financial issues I didn’t do this.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don’t think that the reasoning is of any relevance to the problem, unless the OP was unable to buy a ticket before travelling, which seems unlikely.

As @Hadders often says, an excuse for the short-faring rarely yields being "let off," as they've heard it all before.

To be completely honest I decided to pay from Vauxhall as it is very expensive for me I am struggling financially. I have payed for short journeys before and have not be caught by ticket inspectors. I without a doubt understand this is wrong but I have definitely learnt my lesson and will not do this again… any help?

You must be rather worried, I am sorry for your situation. I will report this post so that one of the wonderful forum staff can put it in "Disputes and Prosecutions" where far, far more knowledgeable users than myself often are active. (Edit: This has now been done, many thanks)

Until then, here is the usual advice from the Senior Fares Advisor regarding potential prosecutions. All cases will of course differ.

I expect you will receive a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and ask for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it. for you.

it is very expensive for me I am struggling financially.

I promise I'm not saying this nastily, but don't expect including this to have any bearing on the result. This reason is most commonly given and rarely gets anywhere.

 

[Gloster]

To be completely honest I decided to pay from Vauxhall as it is very expensive for me I am struggling financially. I have payed for short journeys before and have not be caught by ticket inspectors. I without a doubt understand this is wrong but I have definitely learnt my lesson and will not do this again… any help?


Sorry I am not sure what OP means but yes I was able to buy the ticket beforehand however due to financial issues I didn’t do this.

Your reasons will cut absolutely no ice with the railway. Making clear that you have learnt you lesson will be the only thing that helps.

OP means Original Poster, the person who started the thread: yourself.

 

[Iamconfused123]

As @Hadders often says, an excuse for the short-faring rarely yields being "let off," as they've heard it all before.


You must be rather worried, I am sorry for your situation. I will report this post so that one of the wonderful forum staff can put it in "Disputes and Prosecutions" where far, far more knowledgeable users than myself often are active.

Until then, here is the usual advice from the Senior Fares Advisor regarding potential prosecutions. All cases will of course differ.



I promise I'm not saying this nastily, but don't expect including this to have any bearing on the result. This reason is most commonly given and rarely gets anywhere.

Thank you for your feedback and sharing. I definitely wait for the letter and go from there, I completely understand this is wrong and I will definitely going forward will not do this again. Im just really worried and thinking worst case scenario and they will look into my account and that should be enough to fight for maximum penalty including criminal record

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I completely understand this is wrong and I will definitely going forward will not do this again.

Don't necessarily worry about saying such things to us - you have nothing to justify or promise to myself or any other forum member, and any member on here who berates you or tells you off needs to learn their place and leave that to the TOC - but this is exactly what you want to be including in your letter. You want to be able to show them that you're genuinely regretful and have no intention of doing it again. First Group only prosecute as a last resort so there's a good chance they'll be willing to settle. TfL, for example, would have been far less likely to.

That's quite enough from me though. I don't want to give the impression I'm more knowledgeable than I am; I'm basing most of what I write here from reading many of the cases on the sub-forum. I'll leave you in the capable hands of the wonderful Fares Advisors.

 

[Iamconfused123]

Don't necessarily worry about saying such things to us - you have nothing to justify or promise to myself or any other forum member, and any member on here who berates you or tells you off needs to learn their place and leave that to the TOC - but this is exactly what you want to be including in your letter. You want to be able to show them that you're genuinely regretful and have no intention of doing it again. First Group only prosecute as a last resort so there's a good chance they'll be willing to settle. TfL, for example, would have been far less likely to.

That's quite enough from me though. I don't want to give the impression I'm more knowledgeable than I am; I'm basing most of what I write here from reading many of the cases on the sub-forum. I'll leave you in the capable hands of the wonderful Fares Advisors.

Thank you so much this definitely helps. Fingers crossed first group will not prosecute just trying to keep myself really calm.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sorry I am not sure what OP means but yes I was able to buy the ticket beforehand however due to financial issues I didn’t do this.

This is obviously not a defence. What will happen next is SWR will audit your purchase history to find out how many times you've cheated the fare. They will then ask you to pay a settlement fee which is usually £100 ish plus whatever fares you've avoided. Normally they use the Anytime (Day) Single price for each instance, which is £9.30.

Do let us know when you receive the letter.

 

[Iamconfused123]

This is obviously not a defence. What will happen next is SWR will audit your purchase history to find out how many times you've cheated the fare. They will then ask you to pay a settlement fee which is usually £100 ish plus whatever fares you've avoided. Normally they use the Anytime (Day) Single price for each instance, which is £9.30.

Do let us know when you receive the letter.

I agree I definitely do know what I did was wrong. Do you think this will stretch out to a criminal record?

 

[Watershed]

I agree I definitely do know what I did was wrong. Do you think this will stretch out to a criminal record?

You've been "caught in the act" on at least one occasion and there is evidence suggesting you may have done it in the past. Accordingly they have every right to prosecute you if they want, which would indeed lead to a fine and criminal record.

That being said, it is common (albeit by no means guaranteed) for a settlement to be offered in these kinds of circumstances. Be prepared for it to be expensive, so you might want to save up!

 

[Iamconfused123]

You've been "caught in the act" on at least one occasion and there is evidence suggesting you may have done it in the past. Accordingly they have every right to prosecute you if they want, which would indeed lead to a fine and criminal record.

That being said, it is common (albeit by no means guaranteed) for a settlement to be offered in these kinds of circumstances. Be prepared for it to be expensive, so you might want to save up!

Hi thanks for getting back to me. I have only been caught once and I have reason to be believe they will definitely look into my history on Trainline I have been “doughnutting” for a couple of months. I’m really worried this will lead to a criminal record do you have any thoughts on how I can avoid this or what the likely events if they do see that I have been doing short fare tickets for a while.

 

[Watershed]

Hi thanks for getting back to me. I have only been caught once and I have reason to be believe they will definitely look into my history on Trainline I have been “doughnutting” since February. I’m really worried this will lead to a criminal record do you have any thoughts on how I can avoid this or what the likely events if they do see that I have been doing short fare tickets since Feb.

It's not really within your control anymore whether it leads to a criminal record. That's down to SWR to decide.

All indications are that they generally do tend to make an offer of settlement. But you don't have the right to a settlement - so if they decide not to offer one for whatever reason, there's nothing you can do about it.

By buying all your short fare tickets through an app/website, it will be trivial for them to find details of your other instances of short faring. Of course, the mere fact that you have bought a particular ticket isn't concrete evidence that you've short fared - but you have to consider very carefully whether it's wise to fight any allegations, if it comes to it.

 

[some bloke]

I am really worried this will cause me to lose my job

Perhaps you can find out what the worst consequences are likely to be - do you know how convictions are dealt with by your employer/professional regulator? Are you in a union which could provide advice? Have you searched online for information about convictions and your line of work?

If the company doesn't offer a settlement you are free to keep asking for one, even in the court building just before a hearing is set to take place if you find the prosecutor and talk to them.

 

[RPI]

In order for them to look at your history the inspector will need to demonstrate evidence of suspicion of previous offences, for example, they may have asked you about it at the time or looked at your previous bookings at the time.

 

[Iamconfused123]

In order for them to look at your history the inspector will need to demonstrate evidence of suspicion of previous offences, for example, they may have asked you about it at the time or looked at your previous bookings at the time.

They did not ask me at the time and did no look into my Trainline app to see my history.

 

[SuspectUsual]

They did not ask me at the time and did no look into my Trainline app to see my history.

They don’t need to ask and don’t need to look at the time - they can (and almost certainly will) check your purchase history from the comfort of their offices

 

[Towers]

It would seem prudent to offer the OP the usual advice that this thread may be viewed by staff connected to their case, and thus they may wish to consider whether the level of detail being offered may compromise their positon if they were to be identified.

 

[Watershed]

They did not ask me at the time and did no look into my Trainline app to see my history.

As long as they have a picture of your ticket, wrote down its details, or retained it (if it was a paper ticket), they will be able to trace it back to your account.

 

[Iamconfused123]

As long as they have a picture of your ticket, wrote down its details, or retained it (if it was a paper ticket), they will be able to trace it back to your account.

Any advice on what I should do now?

They don’t need to ask and don’t need to look at the time - they can (and almost certainly will) check your purchase history from the comfort of their offices

I assume so. I’m just worried that it could lead to a criminal conviction. I generally didn’t understand the full risks of my actions.

 

[Watershed]

Any advice on what I should do now?

Wait until you receive a letter from SWR, and save up for the settlement - or fine.

 

[greyman42]

Has anyone experienced this before and any advice on how to avoid criminal record? I am really worried this will cause me to lose my job…

I would have thought that a criminal record is unlikely to see you losing your job.

 

[RPI]

As long as they have a picture of your ticket, wrote down its details, or retained it (if it was a paper ticket), they will be able to trace it back to your account.

They can, but in order to obtain the previous bookings then a degree of suspicion would have to be demonstrated by the investigator as best practice.

 

[Iamconfused123]

They can, but in order to obtain the previous bookings then a degree of suspicion would have to be demonstrated by the investigator as best practice.

When you say investigator would this be the person I spoke to or the department who will be looking into this?

 

[RPI]

When you say investigator would this be the person I spoke to or the department who will be looking into this?

Both really. But if the inspector did see something that may lead them to have suspicion of previous offices they may not have told you

 

[AlterEgo]

They can, but in order to obtain the previous bookings then a degree of suspicion would have to be demonstrated by the investigator as best practice.

In practice this seems to be “this person short fared once, better check and see how many times they’ve done the same thing”.

 

[gray1404]

We have also seen in recent months people who have short 3rd with south Western railway being invited for an interview. At such an interview they have been offered settlement.

 

[Iamconfused123]

We have also seen in recent months people who have short 3rd with south Western railway being invited for an interview. At such an interview they have been offered settlement.

When invited for an interview as there a chance of them pushing for court? Just really worried about getting a criminal conviction I am just the start of the career and don’t want to ruin my life.