Grand Union approved for Cardiff to London open access by ORR from December 2024

[Clarence Yard]

This year, and he’s still around.

I’m thinking it’s 2023 already! Too much WFH!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m thinking it’s 2023 already! Too much WFH!

I've been making the same mistake

 

[Baxenden Bank]

im not saying go via swansea, im saying give a meaningful connection for people wanting to go to swansea

There are regular trains from both Llanelli and Cardiff to Swansea. Connections could be made there. I'm not sure what benefit would be gained by connecting at Port Talbot instead of Cardiff for the final hop to Swansea proper. There are no services which call at Port Talbot which do not also call at Cardiff.

Passengers from the far west have the choice of connecting into the proposed new service at Carmarthen, those east of there at Llanelli, east of Llanelli at Gowerton / Felindre, and so on for Cardiff, Cardiff Parkway, Newport and Severn Tunnel Junction. Having boarded the service somewhere passengers will be able to alight and make onward connections at any of those stations plus Bristol Parkway.

Until an actual timetable is published, and the GBR services still operating at the time are known, it will not be known whether those connections are meaningful or not. Or are you proposing a dedicated connecting train into / out of each Grand Union service from Swansea proper?

Grand Union is proposing to introduce a limited number of 5 return fast through services between Carmarthen and London, calling at Llanelli, Felindre Parkway, Cardiff, Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction and Bristol Parkway. Services will also call at Cardiff Parkway when it is opened.

 

[Energy]

Is Grand Union going to run this or are they looking to partner with a bigger transport company like Arriva or FirstGroup? With the success of Lumo and DfT taking financial responsibility for GWR I'd expect some interest from FirstGroup.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is Grand Union going to run this or are they looking to partner with a bigger transport company like Arriva or FirstGroup? With the success of Lumo and DfT taking financial responsibility for GWR I'd expect some interest from FirstGroup.

If they let FirstGroup run it we can pretty much forget about the decreased London Sth Wales fares we hoped for as a result of competition.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Is Grand Union going to run this or are they looking to partner with a bigger transport company like Arriva or FirstGroup? With the success of Lumo and DfT taking financial responsibility for GWR I'd expect some interest from FirstGroup.

From the approval letter linked to above:

28. In particular, we note that Grand Union has advised us of its plans to enter a strategic partnership with Spanish national rail operator Renfe to operate the services, with financial backing from a Spanish private equity firm, Serena Industrial Partners.

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If they let FirstGroup run it we can pretty much forget about the decreased London Sth Wales fares we hoped for as a result of competition.

As per previous:

28. In particular, we note that Grand Union has advised us of its plans to enter a strategic partnership with Spanish national rail operator Renfe to operate the services, with financial backing from a Spanish private equity firm, Serena Industrial Partners.

 

[43066]

I’m thinking it’s 2023 already! Too much WFH!

Back to the office with you!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

From the approval letter linked to above:


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As per previous:

Oh yes, of course. How silly of me to forget, seeing as I literally referred to the partnership with Renfe myself a few posts ago.

This will be another thing for Labour MPs to use against privatisation. I attended a talk by Mark Drakeford and he was moaning how our Eastern and Midlands railways are managed by The Netherlands, and our flagship Intercity services are managed by Italy, and CrossCountry services managed by Germany, etc. Now Spain has entered the market. Personally, I approve. Trenitalia and Renfe have more experience at running truly high speed services than we do, so I'm certainly not going to be all silly and overly-nationalist like those small-minded people who moan that trains aren't British-designed anymore. I’ll be excited to see what they bring to the table.

 

[43066]

This will be another thing for Labour MPs to use against privatisation.

As if they have any better solutions. Least of all Drakeford who has very little behind his eyes.

The idea that things would magically be better if nationalised and centralised is laughable, and exposed as a complete sham when one looks at the NHS.

 

[popeter45]

east of Llanelli at Gowerton / Felindre

by servering Felindre they have to end the stops at Gowerton as there is no way to connect them and thats my issue, what i think would work far better is alternating which route to take, e.g 2 a day via gowerton and 3 a day via Felindre

the gower is finally getting a useful link to london, please dont snatch it away as soon as we get it

 

[Dai Corner]

Oh yes, of course. How silly of me to forget, seeing as I literally referred to the partnership with Renfe myself a few posts ago.

This will be another thing for Labour MPs to use against privatisation. I attended a talk by Mark Drakeford and he was moaning how our Eastern and Midlands railways are managed by The Netherlands, and our flagship Intercity services are managed by Italy, and CrossCountry services managed by Germany, etc. Now Spain has entered the market. Personally, I approve. Trenitalia and Renfe have more experience at running truly high speed services than we do, so I'm certainly not going to be all silly and overly-nationalist like those small-minded people who moan that trains aren't British-designed anymore. I’ll be excited to see what they bring to the table.

His Government have supported the Grand Union bid as well as ordering Spanish and Swiss trains....

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

His Government have supported the Grand Union bid as well as ordering Spanish and Swiss trains....

Ok. If anything that makes him enormously hypocritical then, but thanks for the information.

 

[StephenHunter]

Abellio are selling their UK operations though.

 

[Benjwri]

With the success of Lumo and DfT taking financial responsibility for GWR I'd expect some interest from FirstGroup.

Lumo was an opportunity for FirstGroup to undercut ECML operators, why would they undercut their own operator? All that would do is make them less likely to retain the ‘franchise’, or operating contract or whatever the British rail network looks like in a few years time.

 

[anthony263]

Is there a buslink opportunity from Felindre? After all, Swansea station itself is a longish walk from the city centre, so doesn't serve very well those who live in the south of the city.

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I'm finding your SWML reference here a bit distracting, living as I do on the real SWML at Basingstoke. Normal convention is to name the GWR mainline the GWML, especially if you're referring to services to South Wales!

Certainly you could divert and enhance local bus routes to serve the station. You got the cymru.coaches shuttles to the DVLA. You got adventure travel service 46 Gorseinon to Morriston which could be increased back to its hourly frequency abd gives a link to the new station from the to big towns close by abd other housing developments. Could possibly extend the Metro 4 service to the station from Morriston hospital

 

[Dai Corner]

Ok. If anything that makes him enormously hypocritical then, but thanks for the information.

Oh, and the previous Welsh Government awarded the Wales and Borders franchise to a joint venture between French/Canadian-owned Keolis and (then) Spanish-owned Amey. Amey has since been sold to private equity firms and retained its contract for the core valley lines infrastructure when the franchise was nationalised.

 

[Watershed]

If they let FirstGroup run it we can pretty much forget about the decreased London Sth Wales fares we hoped for as a result of competition.

Any such takeover would undoubtedly attract the attention of the CMA. They may require undertakings to be signed, guaranteeing that free competition won't be adversely affected (see, for instance, the undertakings they made Abellio agree to when they were awarded EMR).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any such takeover would undoubtedly attract the attention of the CMA.

I mean, effectively its no different to Great Western Railway running services in the paths instead, which is what the original intention was (only that they'd be going to Bristol instead of Cardiff), so I'm not sure it'd necessarily be unlawful, but it would certainly mean First would keep the monopoly.

 

[Energy]

From the approval letter linked to above:

Thanks, forgot about that.

Given the success of Lumo I wonder if we will see Economy Basic be very similar in its high density layout with first being more like a 2+1 premium economy.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thanks, forgot about that.

Given the success of Lumo I wonder if we will see Economy Basic be very similar in its high density layout with first being more like a 2+1 premium economy.

The renders back when the plans were for IC225s to provide the service in the interim suggested that the standard class would be 2+1, and the sort-of third class would have the same interior that current standard class has. First class taking it one step further with private compartments, which inconveniently become considerably less private and somewhat uncomfortable as soon as some random decides to come in and share with you.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Thanks, forgot about that.

Given the success of Lumo I wonder if we will see Economy Basic be very similar in its high density layout with first being more like a 2+1 premium economy.

Pictures on thier website here show first class booths / compartments, standard class 2+1 and standard economy 2+2. Talks about legroom, luggage, carrying vanload parcels to make maximum use of the train space.

Our passenger service could also transport light and urgent freight by utilising empty space in the non-passenger part of our trains where possible.
Working with rail freight logistics specialists Intercity Railfreight, we will look to provide a reliable freight moving option for business, with no impact on passengers and no delays in service.
Importantly, this service would relieve pressure on road transportation and provide a cleaner, greener way to transport fast-moving consumer goods and urgent items between South Wales and London.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Pictures on thier website here show first class booths / compartments, standard class 2+1 and standard economy 2+2. Talks about legroom, luggage, carrying vanload parcels to make maximum use of the train space.

Having said that, if the 2+1 bit is branded as "standard" then a random ordinary Anytime/Off Peak STD ticket bought from a machine must be accepted in that. No supplement should be allowed to be charged, unless on a specific Standard Economy Advance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having said that, if the 2+1 bit is branded as "standard" then a random ordinary Anytime/Off Peak STD ticket bought from a machine must be accepted in that. No supplement should be allowed to be charged, unless on a specific Standard Economy Advance.

Assuming they even join RSP. But there hasn't been an OAO yet that hasn't done so, as everyone likes a nice ORCATS raid for some free money.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Assuming they even join RSP. But there hasn't been an OAO yet that hasn't done so, as everyone likes a nice ORCATS raid for some free money.

Would that even make them anything other than a Charter if they didn't use the national ticketing system? I assume that's what you mean by RSP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would that even make them anything other than a Charter if they didn't use the national ticketing system? I assume that's what you mean by RSP.

Yes, Rail Settlement Plan. I couldn't tell you what ORCATS stood for!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Officiously Regulated Calculation of Arbitrary Ticket Settlement.

No, wait.

Obvious Revenue Carefully Abstracted by Talented Spivsters.






...What?

 

[Llanigraham]

by servering Felindre they have to end the stops at Gowerton as there is no way to connect them and thats my issue, what i think would work far better is alternating which route to take, e.g 2 a day via gowerton and 3 a day via Felindre

the gower is finally getting a useful link to london, please dont snatch it away as soon as we get it

I do wonder how much passenger traffic the Gower generates?
Do you have any figures?

 

[RPI]

Interesting that this week we had an internal memo from Mark Hopwood about these plans being given the go ahead, he was incredibly positive about them, stating that he believed they would actually increase overall ridership along the line which would compliment GWR.

 

[Envoy]

I don't know exactly where they plan to build this so called ‘Felindre’ station as the only Felindre I can find is a small hamlet up near the reservoirs several miles to the north of the Swansea District Line. Presumably, the station will be somewhere by the M4 near Morriston Hospital?

Having 1 train every other hour on this line won't be enough. Something else will be needed to at least create an hourly service. The question must be what this will be whilst also maintaining services on the route via Swansea.

I also note that the speed limit on the Swansea District Line was reduced by Network Rail - presumably to limit track wear caused by freight trains? This certainly needs to be raised to speed up services for passenger trains. I can remember as a kid travelling this line on the Fishguard to London express which went non stop from Llanelli to Cardiff.

I see that vast areas of housing are to be built near the Swansea District Line. I hope that the planners create easy ways for people to reach a suitable station on this line be it by foot, bicycle or car along with suitable bus links.

The plans for a whole new village of 2,000 homes that will transform a city

The huge scheme from family-run developer Llanmoor Homes could take up to 20 years to complete

www.walesonline.co.uk

Work on a new 2,000-home village with shops, community facilities and a school will start next spring. It comes after family-owned and run developer Llanmoor Homes secured reserved matters approval for the first phase of its Pentref Rhostir (Moorland Village) development on what was low grade agricultural land at Llangyfelach close junction 46 of the M4 at Swansea.

 

[Parallel]

Having 1 train every other hour on this line won't be enough. Something else will be needed to at least create an hourly service. The question must be what this will be whilst also maintaining services on the route via Swansea.

I agree - I doubt a handful of trains a day will be enough to convince passengers to start using it in any volume. It will also only take a cancellation for passengers to return to their cars and drive to Port Talbot Parkway next time if nothing else can pick up the stops.