£2 Price Cap on fares in England - Now extended beyond October 2023

[TheGrandWazoo]

There is 124 operators listed in the list above so some must be missing if its 'over 130'

I notice most of the Arriva companies are missing

Indeed, and First West Yorkshire is a notable omission. So too is Nat Ex West Mids, and the Rotala ops except Preston

 

[johntea]

A lot of those bus operators have Single fares under £2.00 and Return fares under £4.00 for shorter journeys so i wonder if those fares will be kept? For example from Lewes to Landport or Malling or Nevill is £1.70 Single or £2.90 Return on all Brighton & Hove and Compass Bus and Cuckmere Bus services so will fares such as this increase or be kept the same? Will it be a flat fare £2.00 Single and no Returns available on all these operators? Or will the cheaper Single and Return fares still be available? Also for longer journeys that will cost £2.00 will people be forced to buy two Single tickets for £2.00 each now? Or will a Return ticket still be sold on all these buses? If so will it be £4.00 or priced slightly cheaper to give a discount over two Single tickets like Return tickets normally do? There are lots of unknowns about this scheme! There is less than two weeks to go and still so little information about how this ticketing will work!

In West Yorkshire I have noticed this comes down to individual drivers most of the time many of whom just go into autopilot as soon as the word 'single' is uttered and insist on £2 regardless of if your destination stop is a cheaper fare as they've just set up their machine to a ticket to the end of the route for every single fare and you have to almost 'convince' them to stick in your specific destination to get the cheaper fare

I know this because I often get a bus from town to my house if I've got a bit of shopping and it is a £1.50 fare, but around 7/10 drivers initially straight away ask for £2!

 

[AlastairFraser]

130 routes sounds to be a very conservative estimate given how many routes some of those operators have - though I notice for my local operator Transdev Keighley, the only route not already covered by a £2 max single fare is the 66 Keighley - Skipton for journeys starting or finishing in North Yorkshire (and if you buy day tickets in bulk they're £3.90).

The article doesn't say 130 routes, it's 140 operators. Yeah, it's a good thing for people who use Transdev, because it will undercut their 12 journeys bundle ticket which has recently gone up to £26 (it's still only 16p off a ticket, but the flexibility is better if you don't have to do bundles). Plus the number of journeys you can newly do now for £2 in the new year because Lancs doesn't have any capping at present.

 

[Andyh82]

Indeed, and First West Yorkshire is a notable omission. So too is Nat Ex West Mids, and the Rotala ops except Preston

"West Midlands Travel Limited" is there

 

[AlastairFraser]

Indeed, and First West Yorkshire is a notable omission. So too is Nat Ex West Mids, and the Rotala ops except Preston

That's so typical of Preston Bus . To be entirely fair, most of the fares they take must be £2 or less anyway. But I notice everyone else major in the area is on it.
Edit: I've just noticed they're towards the bottom near Reading Buses, for some reason the list isn't in full alphabetical order.
In other news, the absence of Tyrers and Holmeswood is perhaps notable. Small firms not justifying the outlay perhaps.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That's so typical of Preston Bus . To be entirely fair, most of the fares they take must be £2 or less anyway. But I notice everyone else major in the area is on it.
Edit: I've just noticed they're towards the bottom near Reading Buses, for some reason the list isn't in full alphabetical order.
In other news, the absence of Tyrers and Holmeswood is perhaps notable. Small firms not justifying the outlay perhaps.

Sorry - might have been the way I phrased it too. Just that none of the Rotala firms are listed except Preston Bus. Does look like someone tagged a few late entrants on at the bottom.

 

[jkkne]

Not quite sure how this actually helps travel...or at least bus commuters who outside London tend to be on the lower socio economic scale.

Operator day tickets (at least here in the NE) will remain better value and even short point to point journeys (say from one end of Gateshead to another will save 30p...)

 

[ChrisC]

This all may seem very good news for bus users between 1st January and 31st March but what happens on 1st April? I would hope that the fares will return to exactly the same as they are now. I just hope that some bus companies don’t take this as an excuse to quietly increase fares by a small amount hoping that we will have all forgotten what our fares are now.

 

[overthewater]

Not quite sure how this actually helps travel...or at least bus commuters who outside London tend to be on the lower socio economic scale.

Operator day tickets (at least here in the NE) will remain better value and even short point to point journeys (say from one end of Gateshead to another will save 30p...)

Far too many Non bus users don't understand the concept of weekly or monthly tickets. I remember telling a few people after their complained about the cost of the single fares and they looked confused,

 

[WAB]

Far too many Non bus users don't understand the concept of weekly or monthly tickets. I remember telling a few people after their complained about the cost of the single fares and they looked confused,

Probably doesn’t help that finding fares information is challenging if not impossible for the travelling public.

 

[overthewater]

Probably doesn’t help that finding fares information is challenging if not impossible for the travelling public.

The paper leaflets ( if you can find them) are the best publicity of them all. Online, its utter crap trying to find the details.

 

[Deerfold]

There is 124 operators listed in the list above so some must be missing if its 'over 130'

I notice most of the Arriva companies are missing

I read the headline which mentioned 130 *routes* but it does mention 130 operators twice.

The paper leaflets ( if you can find them) are the best publicity of them all. Online, its utter crap trying to find the details.

That varies wildly by operator (if they even have paper leaflets).

 

[158756]

Indeed, and First West Yorkshire is a notable omission. So too is Nat Ex West Mids, and the Rotala ops except Preston

The First operations in West Yorkshire are almost entirely covered by the already existing £2 cap in West Yorkshire, though they do run a handful of cross border routes - maybe they've just decided it wasn't worth signing up for the very small fraction of journeys not already covered.

Similarly, I think Diamond North West operates entirely within Greater Manchester.

 

[jkkne]

The paper leaflets ( if you can find them) are the best publicity of them all. Online, its utter crap trying to find the details.

I find the Go North East App pretty good to use but I doubt many one off leisure travellers would bother downloading an app.

I'm just not sure of the point of this aside propping up companies who are doing the same old things, with the same old network and absolutely no advantage for those who have no choice but to use the bus

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The First operations in West Yorkshire are almost entirely covered by the already existing £2 cap in West Yorkshire, though they do run a handful of cross border routes - maybe they've just decided it wasn't worth signing up for the very small fraction of journeys not already covered.

Similarly, I think Diamond North West operates entirely within Greater Manchester.

I did wonder if that was the reason though First West of England is already signed up and does get a mention.

Diamond does have East Midlands, South East and Worcestershire as well and they don't appear either

"West Midlands Travel Limited" is there

Of course... I was looking for National Express! Thanks for that

 

[AlastairFraser]

The First operations in West Yorkshire are almost entirely covered by the already existing £2 cap in West Yorkshire, though they do run a handful of cross border routes - maybe they've just decided it wasn't worth signing up for the very small fraction of journeys not already covered.

Similarly, I think Diamond North West operates entirely within Greater Manchester.

It might run the Rivington bus or is that another operator? Plus a few routes out Adlington way

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I find the Go North East App pretty good to use but I doubt many one off leisure travellers would bother downloading an app.

I'm just not sure of the point of this aside propping up companies who are doing the same old things, with the same old network and absolutely no advantage for those who have no choice but to use the bus

Yet in the Go North East thread, GNE was getting pelters for always changing things whilst Stagecoach NE was getting applauded for having a stable network.

 

[johntea]

Not quite sure how this actually helps travel...or at least bus commuters who outside London tend to be on the lower socio economic scale.

Operator day tickets (at least here in the NE) will remain better value and even short point to point journeys (say from one end of Gateshead to another will save 30p...)

It will help on the longer cross boundary journeys

For example Leeds - Harrogate/Ripon on the Transdev 36 will currently set you back £7.50 for a single (£9.00 return) so a decent saving there

 

[AlastairFraser]

Not quite sure how this actually helps travel...or at least bus commuters who outside London tend to be on the lower socio economic scale.

Operator day tickets (at least here in the NE) will remain better value and even short point to point journeys (say from one end of Gateshead to another will save 30p...)

There are many areas outside PTE e.g. the less populated Northern shire counties where no such cheap day ticketing scheme exists. If you don't buy the 12 journeys bundle and aren't travelling at night, a return on something like the 152 Preston to Burnley will cost you a £7.50 day ticket. Now it will just be £4.
The borough of Rossendale has no stations at all and the nearest stations are at least 5 miles from the central conurbation of Rawtenstall/Haslingden/Helmshore/Waterfoot/Bacup, about 50k there.
Only Bacup is in the GM weekly ticket zone and that's only for adults I think too.
It's about £6 single on the Witchway into Mcr from Rawtenstall. If you're going one way, that's a big chunk off. If you need to make more journeys, you save a bit more because Transdev's day ticket is even more.

 

[ChrisC]

There are many areas outside PTE e.g. the less populated Northern shire counties where no such cheap day ticketing scheme exists. If you don't buy the 12 journeys bundle and aren't travelling at night, a return on something like the 152 Preston to Burnley will cost you a £7.50 day ticket. Now it will just be £4.

That’s certainly the situation here in Nottinghamshire. A journey from a village into the nearest town such as Mansfield or Newark is usually around £4.50 single or £7.70 for a day ticket. Therefore being able to do the return journey for only £4 will be good.

 

[Deerfold]

The First operations in West Yorkshire are almost entirely covered by the already existing £2 cap in West Yorkshire, though they do run a handful of cross border routes - maybe they've just decided it wasn't worth signing up for the very small fraction of journeys not already covered.

Similarly, I think Diamond North West operates entirely within Greater Manchester.

There's no cross-border routes left. The 184 Huddersfield to Oldham (no longer to Manchester) is officially run by First Greater Manchester. The Leeds - Skipton X84 now only runs to Ilkley, with Transdev Keighley running the 64 to Skipton. The 528 Halifax to Rochdale is now Transdev Pennine's 587 (since July). It's many years since they ran to South Yorkshire or York.

 

[158756]

There's no cross-border routes left. The 184 Huddersfield to Oldham (no longer to Manchester) is officially run by First Greater Manchester. The Leeds - Skipton X84 now only runs to Ilkley, with Transdev Keighley running the 64 to Skipton. The 528 Halifax to Rochdale is now Transdev Pennine's 587 (since July). It's many years since they ran to South Yorkshire or York.

They still have the 590/1/2 to Rochdale and Burnley. Journeys at the Rochdale end within Greater Manchester are already covered, but cross boundary journeys and journeys at the Burnley end within Lancashire won't be.

 

[bussnapperwm]

In a way its annoying for me as, from next month my local routes are going from National Express WM to Diamond Bus WM, who it seems isn't in the cap

 

[bunty0657]

A DfT official has said via a 'closed' group that the list as published is not complete, which could explain some of the omissions.

Why it has been published in such a manner is not clear, although given how the scheme has been handled thus far by DfT, it comes as no surprise.

 

[miklcct]

I hope this scheme will boost ridership to the extent that evening / Sunday bus services be enhanced.

 

[Dai Corner]

I hope this scheme will boost ridership to the extent that evening / Sunday bus services be enhanced.

I'd be surprised if it affects ridership significantly, and even more surprised if evening/Sunday services are enhanced. Remember that buses are really only used by those who have no alternative or hold concessionary passes.

 

[Deerfold]

They still have the 590/1/2 to Rochdale and Burnley. Journeys at the Rochdale end within Greater Manchester are already covered, but cross boundary journeys and journeys at the Burnley end within Lancashire won't be.

Darn. Thought I'd covered them all and missed the most frequent. Thanks.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I haven't read all the posts so apologies if this has already been covered.

Around here, Stagecoach recover the costs of concessionary pass users on an average fare for the route basis. Capping the maximum fare would reduce the average fare paid (if it's based on the actual price paid, rather than that in the fares book) and thereby reduce the concessionary pass income. This could be quite significant.

As an aside, the free pass for the old demonstrates that bus travel is not price-sensitive; even at the lowest price possible, free, there are many concessionary pass holders who never use buses.

 

[Andyh82]

I’m not sure the press release and media coverage leading on “operators including… and National Express” is the best idea, as to the majority of the country National Express = coaches, which are obviously not included.

They could have said “Stagecoach and Arriva” instead

 

[miklcct]

Remember that buses are really only used by those who have no alternative

I speculate that the £2 fare can trigger a lot of extra demand on interurban travel between places not linked by the railways, for example, orbital journeys in Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire (where the railways only offer a radial service).