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£2 Price Cap on fares in England - Now extended beyond October 2023

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ant_bingley

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Although they're clearly wrong, with singles up to £2.90 and returns over £4.50.

I'm wondering if there's a "validity date" or "expiry date" missing as the data is presented on bustimes? The £2 fares, and accompanying £4 returns are there, just takes a lot more scrolling to get to the relevant fare tables.

Some of the £2.90/£4.50 tables are shown as "SHADOW" - presumably so First can swap back quickly when the £2 offer finishes? But then there are also sets of £2.90/£4.50 showing simply as "Onboard". It's a bit of a mess!
 
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Deerfold

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I'm wondering if there's a "validity date" or "expiry date" missing as the data is presented on bustimes? The £2 fares, and accompanying £4 returns are there, just takes a lot more scrolling to get to the relevant fare tables.

Some of the £2.90/£4.50 tables are shown as "SHADOW" - presumably so First can swap back quickly when the £2 offer finishes? But then there are also sets of £2.90/£4.50 showing simply as "Onboard". It's a bit of a mess!

The £2 fares in West Yorkshire have not been presented as a limited-time offer.
 

Stan Drews

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I'm wondering if there's a "validity date" or "expiry date" missing as the data is presented on bustimes? The £2 fares, and accompanying £4 returns are there, just takes a lot more scrolling to get to the relevant fare tables.

Some of the £2.90/£4.50 tables are shown as "SHADOW" - presumably so First can swap back quickly when the £2 offer finishes? But then there are also sets of £2.90/£4.50 showing simply as "Onboard". It's a bit of a mess!
Shadow fares are those used to calculate concessionary fare reimbursement.
 

Andyh82

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The £2 fares in West Yorkshire have not been presented as a limited-time offer.
Presumably there still needs to be internal fares on the system so they know how much the Mayor has to cough up. Obviously shouldn’t be public facing though
 

Deerfold

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Presumably there still needs to be internal fares on the system so they know how much the Mayor has to cough up. Obviously shouldn’t be public facing though

Perhaps, but Transdev routes within West Yorkshire don't have fares over the limits.
 

gc4946

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Before West Yorkshire's £2 max fare was introduced it cost me £4.80 single to travel on Transdev's Harrogate Bus Co route 7 from Leeds Harehills Lane to Walton Corner (near Wetherby) in morning peak or £4.90 return.
Wonder how operators such as Transdev's Coastliner which runs from Leeds to Whitby/Scarborough will cope with a £2 max fare early next year, hope there's enough funding to cover that scenario.
 

Hophead

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Has anyone studied the Autumn Statement in sufficient detail to know if this scheme has survived? I'm not expecting either a cancellation or continuation to be of much media interest. I have just read that fuel duty is expected to rise 23% (12p per litre) next April, but there's already suggestions that this is unlikely to happen (you'll not be surprised to hear, I'm sure).
 

Dai Corner

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Has anyone studied the Autumn Statement in sufficient detail to know if this scheme has survived? I'm not expecting either a cancellation or continuation to be of much media interest. I have just read that fuel duty is expected to rise 23% (12p per litre) next April, but there's already suggestions that this is unlikely to happen (you'll not be surprised to hear, I'm sure).
It's available to read here. I haven't done so yet but hang on....
 

miklcct

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The point is, it should have been a regulation since 1986 and should have been strictly enforced since then. Printed timetables should have included a fare table or they could have had separate booklets containing all fares for all their services, maybe by area for large operators.
How do you expect one to prepare the fare if you can't find a fare table in the publicity?

In Hong Kong, it is a legal requirement to show the fare at the farebox, and the fare is standard information in all publicity. This has worked well for decades already. Why doesn't England have a similar law?
 

johncrossley

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Most people pay by card, and giving change on buses is standard outside of a few areas.

That's true nowadays, but for most of the history of one person operated buses, they didn't accept cards. The driver had to work out the fare and supply the change which was very tedious. Of course, fast boarding times have never been a priority for bus companies outside London. Cards still mean the driver has to work out the fare based on the destination. It's quicker than it used to be during the cash only days but it is still unnecessary.
 

markymark2000

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An interesting comment from a forum member regarding the scheme. @Citistar. These 3 tweets below, the middle one has been deleted now but the other two remain. In short, it seems that if the operator didn't run the service in 2019, they can't fill out the details to get reimbursement for the £2 fare.

Quoted tweets just to satisfy the rules
After 11 hours at work, most of them spent driving, i come home to be greeted by the spreadsheet to apply to join the DfT's £2 novelty fare nonsense in January. I can't fill most of it in because we didn't operate the service in 2019. So it doesn't look like that's happening.
https://twitter.com/CitistarBus/status/1592267896428056576
We're already lumbered with Dan's reduced fares (for which WECA have refused to reimburse us), so i may as well just bite the bullet and suck up another 50% reduction to our farebox income.

I honestly don't mind charging lower fares, but somehow the cost of running the service has to be met.

1668807564145.png
 

Deerfold

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An interesting comment from a forum member regarding the scheme. @Citistar. These 3 tweets below, the middle one has been deleted now but the other two remain. In short, it seems that if the operator didn't run the service in 2019, they can't fill out the details to get reimbursement for the £2 fare.

Quoted tweets just to satisfy the rules


View attachment 123983
Who are WECA?
 

Dai Corner

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Who are WECA?
The West of England Combined Authority - regional tier of Government under the metro mayor comprising Bristol, Bath & North East Somerset and South Gloucestershire, but not North Somerset as they declined to join in. The metro mayor is not to be confused with the elected mayor of Bristol whose position the people of the city have voted to abolish.
 

[.n]

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Has anyone studied the Autumn Statement in sufficient detail to know if this scheme has survived? I'm not expecting either a cancellation or continuation to be of much media interest. I have just read that fuel duty is expected to rise 23% (12p per litre) next April, but there's already suggestions that this is unlikely to happen (you'll not be surprised to hear, I'm sure).
Well First Wessex (Dorset) have announced that as from 4th December a whole bunch of Fare increases (sorry simpler fares is how they have phrased it!) which add about 30% / £2 to the average return making all return fares (bar one) over what could be a notional £4 (based on £2 each way) - which the majority now between £9-£12

 

WibbleWobble

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From the information I've been told, the £2 fare is still go, *but* there is still a lot of detail to be finalised - the main thing being the rate of reimbusement, which would be the deal breaker between a company partaking or not.
 

[.n]

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From the information I've been told, the £2 fare is still go, *but* there is still a lot of detail to be finalised - the main thing being the rate of reimbusement, which would be the deal breaker between a company partaking or not.
Is there a list of companies that are / are not taking part that you are aware of?
 

Cesarcollie

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Is there a list of companies that are / are not taking part that you are aware of?

No because no operator has yet submitted the mass of data required or received the ‘offer’ of how much money they would receive. That won’t happen until December. Each company can then decide whether they will be better or worse off from participating and make the decision.
 

[.n]

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No because no operator has yet submitted the mass of data required or received the ‘offer’ of how much money they would receive. That won’t happen until December. Each company can then decide whether they will be better or worse off from participating and make the decision.
thanks - based on the fare increases, I'd be surprised if First are going to take part (at least in Dorset)
 

Llandudno

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thanks - based on the fare increases, I'd be surprised if First are going to take part (at least in Dorset)
Perhaps it’s a ploy by First, put the fares up so when they introduce the £2 cap they will get a greater level of subsidy to make up for the lost revenue from higher fares…?
 

[.n]

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Perhaps it’s a ploy by First, put the fares up so when they introduce the £2 cap they will get a greater level of subsidy to make up for the lost revenue from higher fares…?
Wouldn't surprise me - they effectively reduced the gap between the cost of 2 singles and a return
 

ChrisC

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Perhaps it’s a ploy by First, put the fares up so when they introduce the £2 cap they will get a greater level of subsidy to make up for the lost revenue from higher fares…?
Then after the £2 price cap has finished we all end up continuing to have to pay these higher fares.
 

Llandudno

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Then after the £2 price cap has finished we all end up continuing to have to pay these higher fares.
Absolutely, and when the £2 trial has ended, the media will be quoting increases of 100% on some routes with single fares rising from £2 fo upwards of £4 on many routes providing more bad publicity for local bus services… leading to more frequency and route withdrawals!
 

Deerfold

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Is the £2 offer on singles in just certain locations in England?
There's a proposed national limited time offer due in the New Year.

Certain areas have already introduced £2 fares longer term, including West and South Yorkshire and Greater Manchester for fares wholly within each county.
 

dgl

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Well First Wessex (Dorset) have announced that as from 4th December a whole bunch of Fare increases (sorry simpler fares is how they have phrased it!) which add about 30% / £2 to the average return making all return fares (bar one) over what could be a notional £4 (based on £2 each way) - which the majority now between £9-£12

OT but also returns are no longer treated as day tickets, que a lot of aggro on Sunday when people try to reuse their tickets. Interestingly it does make it only 70p more now to go to Dorchester with a Weymouth plus day than a simple return to Weymouth, assuming Dorchester is included in the Weymouth Plus as it always used to be for day tickets and currently is for season tickets.
 

johntea

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An Arriva driver suggested using the 'tap on/off' system the other day, which was fine as I was only making a couple of Arriva only journeys but I'm guessing the various operators all have their own systems for that so if I used the system on Arriva then switched to say First Bus it wouldn't be able to work out the £4.50 day 'cap'

I've also never been quite sure on the 'etiquette' using this system on buses round here either in regards to 'tapping in', do you just place your card on the drivers reader and say nothing expecting them to know what you're intending to do? :D Obviously in London that is standard as pretty much everyone uses Oyster/contactless by default but in Yorkshire it is currently quite the minority in my experience!
 

[.n]

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OT but also returns are no longer treated as day tickets, que a lot of aggro on Sunday when people try to reuse their tickets. Interestingly it does make it only 70p more now to go to Dorchester with a Weymouth plus day than a simple return to Weymouth, assuming Dorchester is included in the Weymouth Plus as it always used to be for day tickets and currently is for season tickets.
Ah - that's a nuisance and not mentioned anyone that I've seen - I use that functionality a lot (also haven't fully checked - but it should be that it is the same from Bridport to Dorchester or Weymouth, as it depends on there should be interavailability on the take an X51 or X53 [and the number 10).

So basically a massive super sneaky price raise for the average user of the service coupled with the rubbish winter timetable reducing services as per usual
 

Llandudno

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Had occasion today to travel on a number of buses in West Yorkshire..

My Huddersfield PlusBus was cheerily accepted by First and Team Pennine drivers.

But I was surprised to see that the £2 bus fare cap didn’t seem to be speeding up boarding times, from what I saw most fare paying passengers were stating their destination to the driver, who then seemed to have key in a series of buttons to issue a ticket. Is this so the operator can claim back the difference between the capped £2 fare and what the fare should have been?

It would be quicker for the driver to have a Bell Punch ticket with £2 printed on it!
 
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