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£2 Price Cap on fares in England - Now extended beyond October 2023

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Merle Haggard

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Yes you are right they are. Cogenhoe & Whiston Parish Council are on the list. I must have missed that. Good to see they are part of it.

It's a 'community bus'. One of a number in Northamptonshire that were set up in the late 1970s - 80s because of the almost total withdrawal of rural bus services as a result of county council grant cutbacks. Originally the (mini)buses were provided by United Counties and driven by volunteer (i.e., unpaid) drivers. Not sure what the present arrangement is but they were always 'not for profit' so don't really fall into the 'state owned' description.
 
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Haywain

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What is the difference? Surely they both mean the same thing? If something is state owned than it is also publicly owned and if something is publicly owned than it is also state owned?
Is your local authority the government? There's the difference.
 

James H

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What is the difference? Surely they both mean the same thing? If something is state owned than it is also publicly owned and if something is publicly owned than it is also state owned?
State-owned means owned by central Government.

Local Government is not 'the state' but it is part of the public sector.
 

Simon75

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Uno is owned by the University of Hertfordshire (are University's privately owned, or classed as a charity)
 

markymark2000

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It will be interesting to see how the £2 fare affects passenger numbers - and if it really does make the bus more appealing.
In some areas, it will be very interesting. Warringtons Own Buses, fares dropping from nearly £5 single down to £2 is a gamechanger. That said, WOB has decided to change it's other fares in line with this. 5p off a serverely overpriced day ticket (costs more for a WOB day ticket than an Arriva one. Go figure that one out) but weeklies are going up. Widnes week ticket £17 so it's only useful to people making more than 9 journeys per week on the 32. Other day and week tickets have gone up too which is a shame.

If you take into account the fact that less pass holders are travelling (even though free), that people travel less often for work (working from home), and less for leisure (less disposable income), it is a hard fight to get pax numbers to pre COVID levels even if you get new bums on seats.
Fare paying passengers are meant to have recovered well. The lower patronage was mostly due to pass holders. Least that is what bus company management and industry magazines are saying.
 

Flange Squeal

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Rotala's Diamond bus operation has issued the following statement today on their not taking part in the scheme:

It has been publicised that a number of bus operators across England will be participating in a new scheme to cap all single fares to £2 from 1st January until 31st March 2023.

We wish to make passengers aware that Diamond Bus, Diamond East Midlands and Diamond South East will not be participating in the scheme. Diamond North West will continue to be part of the TfGM, Greater Manchester ‘Get on Board’ fare scheme.

As part of the DfT fare cap initiative, some Government funding is available to operators to cover the costs of the fare cap reduction. However, due to the way the reimbursements are calculated, the majority of Rotala Plc subsidiaries would be left considerably out of pocket and would suffer a huge revenue loss if we took part in the scheme.

As a business we are still recovering from the effects of revenue loss from the Covid-19 Pandemic. To participate in the scheme means the business would effectively itself have to fund over 20% of the offer to passengers that would not be covered by Government funding. We have been in discussion with the DfT regarding this, but unfortunately their position is fixed and therefore this scheme would not be a viable option for us to undertake in these regions.

We understand that during these difficult times, some of our existing passengers may be disappointed to hear that we will not be taking part in the scheme; however it is also our opinion that reducing fares now and then increasing fares again in April, would also create a negative effect on passenger opinion and risk potentially losing passengers later in the year. We believe that keeping our fares consistent is a better long-term goal. Therefore all of the Diamond Bus businesses fares will remain frozen at current prices.

If you are a regular Diamond Bus traveller, you can already benefit from journey costs that are much better value than the proposed DfT fare cap when purchasing our period passes. For example, many of our monthly tickets mean that your daily trip costs are already as low as just £1.02 per journey* (*based on a WM Zone £45 Month, used over 22 days per month/2 times per day)

We believe that our current fare structure offers passengers a fair value for money rate and our ticket prices accurately reflect the rising costs of operating a viable bus network. By working towards maintaining a stable bus network this enables us to grow our business, improve our services and provide new opportunities to keep the communities we serve moving.
Source: https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/2-fare-cap-statement/
 

mikeg

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Rotala's Diamond bus operation has issued the following statement today on their not taking part in the scheme:


Source: https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/2-fare-cap-statement/
And on that news, I've just sold my Rotala shares. Granted many of their operations are in urban areas not covered by the cap (ie already under it or only slightly above), but for those that aren't they've handed a massive gift to what competition they have.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Rotala's Diamond bus operation has issued the following statement today on their not taking part in the scheme:


Source: https://www.diamondbuses.com/news/2-fare-cap-statement/
Given the widespread feeling that ENCTS re-imbursement rates are generally below what is necessary, it comes as no surprise that this scheme apparently does the same. I suspect Diamond will come in for some stick for this decision even though they have carefully explained why. Expect an arms folded mopey faced grumpy to appear on Reach Group websites (Staffordshirelive etc) in each of Diamond's operating areas early in the new year.

As they state and others have commentated here, if you are a frequent user existing multi-journey products probably work out cheaper anyway. Whether there is a pool of people willing to forgoe their car for a £2 bus ride remains to be seen. My regular journeys are £1.30 and £1.70 anyway and my £3.30 ones are on an operator not taking part as far as I can tell. That is on a Staffordshire supported service and there are very few cash (strictly cash only) paying passengers - I can tell from the tickets I receive just how few others have travelled one week to the next!
 
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aquae39

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Can anyone figure out the longest routes under the £2 cap fare? I can think of Lake District routes.
 

NorthOxonian

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Can anyone figure out the longest routes under the £2 cap fare? I can think of Lake District routes.
Leeds to Whitby on the Coastliner 840 is included - considering you won't get that much change out of £20 for a single now that's quite the reduction.
 

busestrains

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I just noticed that the government website has been organised better now and will now show you which routes are included and excluded for each operator:


The list confirms that the Arriva Greenline 724 is indeed included in the scheme as i had expected. Only the 755 and 757 are excluded.

Harting Minibuses are part of this scheme but only for the CH1 service. Their PD1 PD2 PD3 PD4 PD5 services are excluded. Why would the CH1 be included but the PD1 PD2 PD3 PD4 PD5 be excluded? This seems very strange so i wonder what the explanation is for this?

Interesting to see that quite a few community transport operators like Cuckmere Buses and Waverley Hoppa are in the scheme. Whenever i travel on these operators i never see anyone who is not an OAP using it. So i am surprised they have bothered when 99% of passengers have ENCTS passes.

Also interesting that Brighton & Hove and Metrobus are including all of their school buses and night buses in the scheme but many other operators are excluding them.
 

NorthOxonian

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Also interesting to see internal routes within Merseyside, Greater Manchester, and West Yorkshire seem to be excluded (meaning that some operators have very few inclusions - Go North West's 100 is their only capped route). I suppose the national scheme would be redundant in those cases?
 

johncrossley

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Also interesting to see internal routes within Merseyside, Greater Manchester, and West Yorkshire seem to be excluded (meaning that some operators have very few inclusions - Go North West's 100 is their only capped route). I suppose the national scheme would be redundant in those cases?

That's obviously what's happened, but is not particularly helpful. There should at least be some acknowledgement somewhere on that page that local schemes also offer a £2 fare cap, even if it is too much effort to actually work out which ones already enjoy a £2 fare cap. The general public couldn't care less who is subsidising their ticket.
 

Andyh82

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That's obviously what's happened, but is not particularly helpful. There should at least be some acknowledgement somewhere on that page that local schemes also offer a £2 fare cap, even if it is too much effort to actually work out which ones already enjoy a £2 fare cap. The general public couldn't care less who is subsidising their ticket.
There is, it says exactly that in the section below the big list
 

bakerstreet

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My mistake

Under Thames Transit the Oxford Tube is mentioned, but it doesn’t state any limitations. Assuming it’s only the local Oxford end and Hillingdon - London ?
 
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markymark2000

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I just noticed that the government website has been organised better now and will now show you which routes are included and excluded for each operator:

This new page doesn't make things much better. Services which already come under one of the £2 fare schemes in Manchester, Liverpool or West Yorkshire should be in another column 'Services with existing £2 flat fare'.

Stagecoach Merseyside, Cheshire and South Lancs has the 200 listed as excluded. It's a free service, that's why it's not partaking in the scheme. There has to be a better way to explain it than 'excluded from the scheme'.
Arriva Merseyside has loads of services listed as 'included in the scheme' which are actually in the Merseyside scheme but the rest of the ones in the Merseyside scheme are shown as excluded'.

There will also be services listed as 'excluded' which are actually included but included via the council tender scheme thing rather than via the BSOG payments. (see post 346 from 820KDV which explains this more)

Under Thames Transit the Oxford Tube is mentioned, but it doesn’t state any limitations. Assuming it’s only the local Oxford end and Hillingdon - London ?
It mentions that Oxford Tube is excluded from the scheme
 

Flange Squeal

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Under Thames Transit the Oxford Tube is mentioned, but it doesn’t state any limitations. Assuming it’s only the local Oxford end and Hillingdon - London ?
The Oxford Tube is listed in the exceptions column. The Oxford Tube website also reads:

£2 Bus Fare Cap Scheme​

19/12/2022

The £2 Bus Fare Cap scheme has been launched by Department for Transport and the government’s Help for Households initiative.
There are, however, some exclusions.
Services that do not allow free concessionary travel, as defined by the English National Concessionary Travel Scheme, for the entirety of its length are excluded from the scheme.
Therefore the Oxford Tube is not eligible for the £2 fare cap and fares will remain unchanged.
Source: https://www.oxfordtube.com/servicedetails.aspx?update=772
 

Alex365Dash

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Also interesting that Brighton & Hove and Metrobus are including all of their school buses and night buses in the scheme but many other operators are excluding them.
Southern Vectis have included a few of their school buses in the scheme due to possible overcrowding on service buses.
Considering how busy some of Brighton & Hove's service buses can get, I wouldn't be surprised if the same reasoning also applied to them, but Brighton & Hove also aren't unknown to trial fare reductions out of their own pocket...
 

The exile

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I just noticed that the government website has been organised better now and will now show you which routes are included and excluded for each operator:

Interestingly the First West of England section has route 20 in both the “included” and “excluded” lists - as First WoE includes at least two parallel numbering systems, some clarification of which is which would be useful!


Interestingly the First West of England section has route 20 in both the “included” and “excluded” lists - as First WoE includes at least two parallel numbering systems, some clarification of which is which would be useful!
Make that 3 parallel numbering systems- I assume that the “1” in the included list is the Weston-s-Mare one, as the Bristol & Bath variants presumably fall within First’s own £2 fare cap areas.
 
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dgl

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It's nice to see all of my local First buses are included, including the Jurassic routes. It will be interesting to see if the services to Poole get any busier as a £4 return for Weymouth to Poole is a massive difference when compared to the train and the extra time taken will probably be worth it.
I wonder if through single line tickets will be sold for the £2, so, for example, a day out in Lyme Regis from Portland would only require the two singles.
 
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station_road

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Trentbarton have confirmed that all of their routes except Red Arrow will be participating (you can't use concessionary passes on Red Arrow, they are saying that means it doesn't qualify for the scheme). I wonder whether their Mango touch on-touch off will charge the £2 fare (less the Mango discount)

https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/travel-updates

The £2 single fare cap is a Government funded scheme that will be introduced from 1 January until 31 March.​


Pay less to travel by bus this winter. The £2 single fare cap is a Government funded scheme that will be introduced from 1 January until 31 March. All trentbarton services are offering the £2 single fare except for red arrow, which does not meet the Government’s conditions.
 

ChrisC

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Trentbarton have confirmed that all of their routes except Red Arrow will be participating (you can't use concessionary passes on Red Arrow, they are saying that means it doesn't qualify for the scheme). I wonder whether their Mango touch on-touch off will charge the £2 fare (less the Mango discount)
I wouldn’t think so. The Trent Barton website states that the £2 fare will be available when paying by cash, contactless or the Mango app, but the daily cap will still apply. I didn’t think Trent Barton would give anything extra away. They even charge you £3.50 extra on the daily cap and day tickets if you make any journeys before 9am, when most other bus companies do usually allow standard priced day tickets to be used all day.
 

henryb

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As child fares are 50% of adult fares will they theoretically be capped at £1? Government material has referred exclusively to adult fares.
 
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Kevpbus

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As child fares are 50% of adult fares will they theoretically be capped at £1. Government material has referred exclusively to adult fares
No, the offer is that single fares will be a maximum of £2, so that applies to child fares too. They will also be capped at £2 irrespective of the adult fare for the same journey.
 

WM Bus

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As child fares are 50% of adult fares will they theoretically be capped at £1? Government material has referred exclusively to adult fares.
Thye're being capped at £1 on West Midlands Travel/NXWM services.

The 4 WMT services showing as not included are closed door as well I believe & the only closed door ones to. So the offer is to be in effect on all routes.
 
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